California High Speed Rail Thread

[Busy Bee]

Why is your entire pessimistic position based on what poorer people will or will not do? Are there tons of very low income people flying between SF-LA now? Probably not, but they may take a morning HSR train from LA Union Station to Bakersfield to visit friends or grandma or insert person/thing here instead of committing to driving a shitty or nonexistent car or having to take the horrible bus.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by TWAK

According to this document, we are looking at 119 miles of construction so far!
http://www.hsr.ca.gov/docs/newsroom/...tes_021518.pdf
The project has gone from "never will get built" to "train to nowhere". When construction starts in "somewhere"....what will be the response?

Well it hasn't gotten built and it a train to nowhere right now.

As for declining ridership in transit, most people prefer to drive and want their cars because they are superior in every way to transit other than being less eco friendly, less efficient in terms of space, and transit has a better social aspect if that's your thing to do when commuting. But cars offer customization in terms of entertainment, climate, comfort, etc. You don't have to deal with others directly, it's much nicer and I love commuting in my car and prefer traffic to having to deal with people on trains.

Wait until autonomous cars come out. I think those will put a serious hurt on mass transit.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by pizzaguy

And if he was successful we'd be a commonwealth like Canada or Australia instead of the shithole that we are.

#fuckgeorgewashington

If you think this country is a shithole, you a very ignorant person. Seriously. Leave if it's that bad. For every person like you that doesn't want to be here, there's 100,000 other people that would gladly take your place even over places like Canada or Australia.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

Well it hasn't gotten built and it a train to nowhere right now.

So being in the process of construction isn't good enough? The whole thing with construction is...........it has to finish. It's likely because you would prefer construction in the LA area now? Let's be clear that the people that don't like it are
A. Out of state
B. Not included the first phase
Not being included in the phase or recent construction can cause resentment.
Would you prefer they built it "somewhere" first, all at once? I wish these things too but unfortunately the populated areas provide resistance to it being built first lol.

[pizzaguy]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

If you think this country is a shithole, you a very ignorant person. Seriously. Leave if it's that bad. For every person like you that doesn't want to be here, there's 100,000 other people that would gladly take your place even over places like Canada or Australia.

HAHAHAHA no there aren't.

And I have no plans of leaving this shithole anytime soon.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by pizzaguy

HAHAHAHA no there aren't.

And I have no plans of leaving this shithole anytime soon.

It is true some Western countries have a higher proportion of people immigrating to their countries but the United States has 5x more people every year than any country in the world(minus countries dealing with refugees) immigrating here. That isn't anything to laugh at or discount.

I work with an African immigrant who has been here for 3 years. Another coworker was speaking about politics in general and mentioned there " was no opportunity in the USA." My African friend quickly and loudly dismissed this and spoke about his current situation vs his old one.

Lets be real, if you live in America and hate it, you are a spoiled brat. And historically speaking you are incredibly ungrateful and ignorant. Now, this doesn't mean if you want to leave for whatever reason(lets see how many people give up their American citizenship outright though) you are anti American etc, that is fine, many countries have great qualities I really appreciate personally. But to act like this is a shithole country because of a bathroom bill or taxes aren't high enough or because we don't have universal healthcare, again, shows how fortunate you really are.

[CastleScott]

^ As a veteran of the Air Force reserves thanks bro-besides America is still a relatively young country-sure we are learning and progressing in many areas but compared to much of the world we have a long ways to go.

[pizzaguy]

Originally Posted by CastleScott

^ As a veteran of the Air Force reserves thanks bro-besides America is still a relatively young country-sure we are learning and progressing in many areas but compared to much of the world we have a long ways to go.

It's literally the oldest state in the world.

Quit the excuses. America's problem isn't that it's young, America's problem is that its a country full to the brim with fat, stupid, racist, lazy, dumb, uncultured, heroin-addicted rednecks. We are not a virtuous people. We are probably the worst people that have ever existed in human history.

But I digress, let's get back to the train that everyone is going to pretend they always supported in 20 years.

[CastleScott]

America's problem is that its a country full to the brim with fat, stupid, racist, lazy, dumb, uncultured, heroin-addicted rednecks. We are not a virtuous people. We are probably the worst people that have ever existed in human history.

Ok pizzaguy this is a true statement especially in the past 25 or so yrs, however please be careful what you say-I'm of mixed African-American/Caucasian/Native American decent plus I come from a well educated hard working family and I'm also 59 yrs old! Yes the facts you mentioned are true and a BIG reason why America has lost its edge in the business/tech/industry world but I thought we were supposed to be on the subject of California High Speed Rail.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by pizzaguy

It's literally the oldest state in the world.

Quit the excuses. America's problem isn't that it's young, America's problem is that its a country full to the brim with fat, stupid, racist, lazy, dumb, uncultured, heroin-addicted rednecks. We are not a virtuous people. We are probably the worst people that have ever existed in human history.

But I digress, let's get back to the train that everyone is going to pretend they always supported in 20 years.

You realize your hate of America(and your obvious proximity bias) has made you blind to real facts?

We are worse than the Mongols? Romans? Spanish and English empire and their slavery? The Congo under the Belgium? Germany under the Nazi? Soviet Russia? North Korea?

You are really making yourself incredibly hard to even pretend to take seriously. How old are you?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by TWAK

So being in the process of construction isn't good enough? The whole thing with construction is...........it has to finish. It's likely because you would prefer construction in the LA area now? Let's be clear that the people that don't like it are
A. Out of state
B. Not included the first phase
Not being included in the phase or recent construction can cause resentment.
Would you prefer they built it "somewhere" first, all at once? I wish these things too but unfortunately the populated areas provide resistance to it being built first lol.

I think most people would want construction in actual areas where there are rail riders. Bakersfield and the like aren't going to generate traffic.

It would be like building the Paris Metro in 2018 and starting in some farmland. Odd, to say the least.

And has nothing to do with in-state out-of-state. Roughly half of Californians are opposed to HSR.

[KevinFromTexas]

Stick to the topic and stop trolling each other.

[Busy Bee]

Satire can be tricky

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

Well it hasn't gotten built and it a train to nowhere right now.

As for declining ridership in transit, most people prefer to drive and want their cars because they are superior in every way to transit other than being less eco friendly, less efficient in terms of space, and transit has a better social aspect if that's your thing to do when commuting. But cars offer customization in terms of entertainment, climate, comfort, etc. You don't have to deal with others directly, it's much nicer and I love commuting in my car and prefer traffic to having to deal with people on trains.

Wait until autonomous cars come out. I think those will put a serious hurt on mass transit.

First of all, cars aren't superior to all other forms of transportation. That's especially clear when people are stuck in traffic getting older and fatter. I would imagine more people would be willing to take the train than can presently imagine what the benefit would be once they did.

As for the "train to nowhere" comment. I hear comments like that in my city about transportation to outlying areas. The point is to develop transportation projects before those areas get built up and become congested. America always does things backward. We wait to develop our transportation infrastructure until after areas are already developed which creates a logistical problem to work around them and also after those areas are already seeing traffic congestion.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think most people would want construction in actual areas where there are rail riders. Bakersfield and the like aren't going to generate traffic.

There are less nimby's in unpopulated areas and it's easier to build. Also Bakersfield is a bad example because passenger trains terminate there.
Caltrain is being electrified so technically that is also under construction and it's one of the areas that slowed the HSR process down/got their speeds reduced.

It would be like building the Paris Metro in 2018 and starting in some farmland. Odd, to say the least.

How many miles is the system going to be? CAHSR is being built in segments, and Caltrain is being electrified so the entire peninsula, which is heavily populated, is under construction.

And has nothing to do with in-state out-of-state. Roughly half of Californians are opposed to HSR.

source? I am referring to the resistance in this thread by looking at the location that goes along with their name. It's a transportation forum but people don't want it built

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by TWAK

There are less nimby's in unpopulated areas and it's easier to build. Also Bakersfield is a bad example because passenger trains terminate there.
Caltrain is being electrified so technically that is also under construction and it's one of the areas that slowed the HSR process down/got their speeds reduced.

How many miles is the system going to be? CAHSR is being built in segments, and Caltrain is being electrified so the entire peninsula, which is heavily populated, is under construction.

source? I am referring to the resistance in this thread by looking at the location that goes along with their name. It's a transportation forum but people don't want it built

This will be my last post on this thread:

Of course I want HSR. I want it done right though. For a good price. And on the most logical routes to serve the people best, not political compromises that end up hurting service or costs.

The reason this out of state person is against this is because im afraid this could go really bad and then people around the entire country will point at California and show the mistakes there and kill any new project in the country, and for good reason. Transportation for transportations sake isnt smart, just like I think all these streetcars will hurt the public enthusiasm for new transport(have you seen how slow Charlottes streetcar is?)

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by pizzaguy

HAHAHAHA no there aren't.

And I have no plans of leaving this shithole anytime soon.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by TWAK

So being in the process of construction isn't good enough? The whole thing with construction is...........it has to finish. It's likely because you would prefer construction in the LA area now? Let's be clear that the people that don't like it are
A. Out of state
B. Not included the first phase
Not being included in the phase or recent construction can cause resentment.
Would you prefer they built it "somewhere" first, all at once? I wish these things too but unfortunately the populated areas provide resistance to it being built first lol.

It sure is exciting, but considering how massive this project is and its timeline, look at how little is under construction.

This project is on thin ice. All it would is the next governor to pull the plug and then what? We're just going to stick by "the people voted for it?" Would they still vote for it today given how much the cost has risen?

Anecdotally, I meet very few people that I talk with that support the project and a lot of people I know are big on mass transit. I would be interested so see how many people still support this.

Regardless of any of that, I stick by my prediction this train never sees the light of day.

You could widen the 5 to 3 lanes plus an express bus lane in each direction in between LA and SF, build new airports that only serve LA and SF plus rail connections between said airport to city centers probably for half the cost this is going to be.

Me personally, I think it'd be cool to hop on a bullet train even though I prefer cars over mass transit, it'd be really nice to have the option. I don't see it coming to fruition though.

If memory serves right, they still don't even know who will be riding this train because they didn't do any studies regarding that.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

It is true some Western countries have a higher proportion of people immigrating to their countries but the United States has 5x more people every year than any country in the world(minus countries dealing with refugees) immigrating here. That isn't anything to laugh at or discount.

I work with an African immigrant who has been here for 3 years. Another coworker was speaking about politics in general and mentioned there " was no opportunity in the USA." My African friend quickly and loudly dismissed this and spoke about his current situation vs his old one.

Lets be real, if you live in America and hate it, you are a spoiled brat. And historically speaking you are incredibly ungrateful and ignorant. Now, this doesn't mean if you want to leave for whatever reason(lets see how many people give up their American citizenship outright though) you are anti American etc, that is fine, many countries have great qualities I really appreciate personally. But to act like this is a shithole country because of a bathroom bill or taxes aren't high enough or because we don't have universal healthcare, again, shows how fortunate you really are.

Be careful, I'm not so sure logic permitted here.

I'll be very quick to criticize this country(USA is my birth country and I've lived here all my life), but I can't get over people who think this place is garbage or don't understand how good they have it here. Of course very very few of them will leave because they either know how good this place is or don't and haven't gotten a reality check.

My family is from Iran and Brazil. I won't even start with those places how bad they are. They have beautiful aspects about them as every places does. By all means, I invite anyone who hates it here to leave but at the end of the day most won't and they know exactly why.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by pizzaguy

It's literally the oldest state in the world.

Quit the excuses. America's problem isn't that it's young, America's problem is that its a country full to the brim with fat, stupid, racist, lazy, dumb, uncultured, heroin-addicted rednecks. We are not a virtuous people. We are probably the worst people that have ever existed in human history.

You think that shit is exclusive to America? Wow, you really fit the bill "dumber than a sack of rocks."