Ottawa Baseball Stadium

[NOWINYOW]

Maybe tear down the stadium and put any new casino there? Lots of room to develop underground parking, good access to the 417, public transit access with the new pedway over the 417. Plus 2 hotels.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Cre47

They should just forget about baseball. Baseball is probably not in the top 5 in sports interest in this city. Hockey first, football second, soccer third, basketball fourth and I'm sure there is more interest in golf and tennis before baseball. Heck there would be a bigger interest in auto racing before baseball. Yes I wish there would be a bigger auto racing facility than Capital City Speedway.

Baseball has lost a lot of interest after the Expos left Montreal and the Lynx left not to mention all the performance-enhanced scandals affecting MLB.

Auto racetrack? There's a good idea for an added interest at a casino if it happens to be built outside of downtown. How about replacing the ailing horse racing with auto racing (if it has to be at RCR)?

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Auto racetrack? There's a good idea for an added interest at a casino if it happens to be built outside of downtown. How about replacing the ailing horse racing with auto racing (if it has to be at RCR)?

I like the idea of an auto racetrack. I don't know if there's more interest in that than what RCR offers with the horses though. Maybe?

I still maintain that the city and province should give full gambling rights to RCR. The facility already exists, there's room for expansion and transit can be added if even through shuttle services. Be it ponies or auto racing, a track like that will make the Ottawa casino something different and unique to eastern Ontario and northern NY state.

A concert venue at RCR could also be implemented down the road.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Cre47

They should just forget about baseball. Baseball is probably not in the top 5 in sports interest in this city. Hockey first, football second, soccer third, basketball fourth and I'm sure there is more interest in golf and tennis before baseball. Heck there would be a bigger interest in auto racing before baseball. Yes I wish there would be a bigger auto racing facility than Capital City Speedway.

Baseball has lost a lot of interest after the Expos left Montreal and the Lynx left not to mention all the performance-enhanced scandals affecting MLB.

I'm not sure where you are getting your popularity estimates. As a spectator sport, I really doubt that any of golf, tennis or racing would outdraw baseball. And its also debatable that basketball is more popular than baseball. After all, even a low-level team like the Fat Cats easily outdrew any basketball or soccer team that has played in Ottawa. Only hockey, and possibly football have demonstrated more fan support than baseball.

But even if baseball is number four, or five as you claim, what is wrong with the city owning a facility? The city owns facilities for numbers one through three on your list. Yes, each one is attended by a minority of people, but they are still big numbers of people being served by the facility.

There is more than enough room for four sports in a city of a million people.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm not sure where you are getting your popularity estimates. As a spectator sport, I really doubt that any of golf, tennis or racing would outdraw baseball. And its also debatable that basketball is more popular than baseball. After all, even a low-level team like the Fat Cats easily outdrew any basketball or soccer team that has played in Ottawa. Only hockey, and possibly football have demonstrated more fan support than baseball.

But even if baseball is number four, or five as you claim, what is wrong with the city owning a facility? The city owns facilities for numbers one through three on your list. Yes, each one is attended by a minority of people, but they are still big numbers of people being served by the facility.

There is more than enough room for four sports in a city of a million people.

Other than Hockey, I would say everything else is up for debate (but tennis and golf are out of the ranking completely, at least for me. Fun to play, excruciatingly painful to watch).

I would tend to agree that in a city of over one million we could support all these sports teams, but the problem is most of them are all coming in at once. Between poor transit connections (partly fixed by 2017, at least for Baseball) and an uncertain economy (high tech and federal layoffs), adding 4+ sports teams (Fury, RedBlacks, SkyHawks and Baseball and I believe the Ravens are adding something) all at once might be overdoing it.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Other than Hockey, I would say everything else is up for debate (but tennis and golf are out of the ranking completely, at least for me. Fun to play, excruciatingly painful to watch).

I would tend to agree that in a city of over one million we could support all these sports teams, but the problem is most of them are all coming in at once. Between poor transit connections (partly fixed by 2017, at least for Baseball) and an uncertain economy (high tech and federal layoffs), adding 4+ sports teams (Fury, RedBlacks, SkyHawks and Baseball and I believe the Ravens are adding something) all at once might be overdoing it.

No question that it is a lot all at once. I particularly wonder about the Tomahawks/SkyHawks.

But as soon as the pedestrian bridge is built, the Ottawa Stadium has the best transit connections of any of the facilities.

[Acajack]

My sense is that the CFL will do well. Basketball and soccer will do OK relative to what average attendance in their respective leagues is. (In the 3-4,000 range per game is more than acceptable for either.)

Baseball is hard to say. I do think it has been passed by the other sports in popularity, whereas before it was a solid third.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My sense is that the CFL will do well. Basketball and soccer will do OK relative to what average attendance in their respective leagues is. (In the 3-4,000 range per game is more than acceptable for either.)

Baseball is hard to say. I do think it has been passed by the other sports in popularity, whereas before it was a solid third.

I think that the average attendance in that basketball league is about 800. It won't take much to exceed that. But there really isn't much in the way of evidence of what basketball support will be like here. Carleton draws in the hundreds with the best university program in the country (with the exception of Capital Hoops at Scotiabank). The attendance at the CIS Finals was quite poor, despite heavy promotion by the Sens. I guess time will tell.

I would agree that soccer will likely do better, though the current incarnation of the Fury don't currently draw particularly big crowds on a regular basis.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by phil235

I think that the average attendance in that basketball league is about 800. It won't take much to exceed that. But there really isn't much in the way of evidence of what basketball support will be like here. Carleton draws in the hundreds with the best university program in the country (with the exception of Capital Hoops at Scotiabank). The attendance at the CIS Finals was quite poor, despite heavy promotion by the Sens. I guess time will tell.

Starting out at Scotiabank Place won't help the basketball team in the least. Such a small crowd in a cavernous building will make it seem even smaller. (And yes, it is quite a drive to get out there too - the standard lament about the place) But minor-league basketball is a bit of a tough sell to begin with. A lot of leagues have been kind of fly-by-night with teams coming and going. We will see if these guys can market it well and get good crowds. If they can make a go of it until the Civic Centre is available again, then they may find that a better venue.

Originally Posted by phil235

I would agree that soccer will likely do better, though the current incarnation of the Fury don't currently draw particularly big crowds on a regular basis.

The current incarnation of the Fury are at about the 4th level of North American soccer. Think of the Junior A CHL as a comparable. Moving up to the 2nd level of competition would be helpful, although we will see. Having OSEG's money and support should help too.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Auto racetrack? There's a good idea for an added interest at a casino if it happens to be built outside of downtown. How about replacing the ailing horse racing with auto racing (if it has to be at RCR)?

Unless they are able to secure a long-term deal with the Canadian Tire Series to race there, I don't think you will see a new venue locally. (assuming you mean an oval track)

The club racing market has Calabogie and ICAR close by which makes a natural terrain road course hard to do too. And Tremblant isn't that far away either.

[lrt's friend]

Car Racing on Coventry Road is a non-starter. The noise factor will be unacceptable in any urban or suburban location.

You will recall that stock car racing took place at Lansdowne Park in the late 1950s. It only lasted about 5 years because of the noise. That is when Capital City Speedway was built to move racing out of Lansdowne.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by phil235

And its also debatable that basketball is more popular than baseball.

If baseball is below basketball, support is non-existent. I recently went to the Final 8 in Ottawa and attendance was abysmal. They had the #1 team in the country, going for their 9th national title (which would be a record), and you couldn't tell who the home side was for many of the games.

Nova Scotians descended en masse, however. There were tons of fans who made the trip west to Ottawa and they drowned out the rest of the arena completely. Acadia has 4000 students and Cape Breton is about the same size. Carleton, however, has 40,000 students and they couldn't even sell out the lower bowl?

It's a shame that baseball has fallen so far in some parts of Canada, the country that gave birth to the game. Perhaps we need a MLB team in Vancouver and a return of the Expos to get us back to where we should be? It's not all bad though. Attendance at baseball games still beats every other sport in Canada except hockey and football.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

No question that it is a lot all at once. I particularly wonder about the Tomahawks/SkyHawks.

But as soon as the pedestrian bridge is built, the Ottawa Stadium has the best transit connections of any of the facilities.

I too wonder about the SkyHawks (I miss the Tomahawks name); it was kind of a surprise when I found out we had a Basketball franchise.

Because of the coming bridge and ORT, I think we should wait until 2018 before we get a new baseball team to give it the best chance.

Originally Posted by lrt's freind

Car Racing on Coventry Road is a non-starter. The noise factor will be unacceptable in any urban or suburban location.

You will recall that stock car racing took place at Lansdowne Park in the late 1950s. It only lasted about 5 years because of the noise. That is when Capital City Speedway was built to move racing out of Lansdowne.

Race track at Lansdowne! Great idea!!! put that in instead of that useless park.

Kidding of course. I would not support a racetrack anywhere near the city. But if the casino ends up at the RCR, I think it might make it more interesting.

[Cre47]

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm not sure where you are getting your popularity estimates. As a spectator sport, I really doubt that any of golf, tennis or racing would outdraw baseball. And its also debatable that basketball is more popular than baseball. After all, even a low-level team like the Fat Cats easily outdrew any basketball or soccer team that has played in Ottawa. Only hockey, and possibly football have demonstrated more fan support than baseball.

But even if baseball is number four, or five as you claim, what is wrong with the city owning a facility? The city owns facilities for numbers one through three on your list. Yes, each one is attended by a minority of people, but they are still big numbers of people being served by the facility.

There is more than enough room for four sports in a city of a million people.

The Fat Cats Attendance average I believe was around 3,000 to 3,500 (4 000 in the Finals) per game though up from 2,000-2,500.

Basketball (would do better downtown than at Scotiabank for sure). Meanwhile for golf I wish the PGA men's Canadian Open tournament would occasionnaly use on one of the courses. There should be at least one course in the region would be able host the PGA's (I know the LPGA for sure).

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Cre47

The Fat Cats Attendance average I believe was around 3,000 to 3,500 (4 000 in the Finals) per game though up from 2,000-2,500.

Basketball (would do better downtown than at Scotiabank for sure). Meanwhile for golf I wish the PGA men's Canadian Open tournament would occasionnaly use on one of the courses. There should be at least one course in the region would be able host the PGA's (I know the LPGA for sure).

The Ottawa Hunt and Golf Club has hosted the Canadian Women's Open a couple of times in the last 20 years. The Royal Ottawa in Gatineau hosted one in 2000 as well. But that tournament rotates around the country so it wouldn't be an annual event. The Mens Canadian Open doesn't stray too far from Oakville, so it hasn't been around here recently.

I think basketball is a huge question mark though. Minor league basketball as a whole hasn't been very successful in North America. And despite local history for the sport (heck, James Naismith was from Almonte) I don't know how much support we will have for a team long term. But I guess there is only one way to find out.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I too wonder about the SkyHawks (I miss the Tomahawks name); it was kind of a surprise when I found out we had a Basketball franchise.

Because of the coming bridge and ORT, I think we should wait until 2018 before we get a new baseball team to give it the best chance.



Race track at Lansdowne! Great idea!!! put that in instead of that useless park.

Kidding of course. I would not support a racetrack anywhere near the city. But if the casino ends up at the RCR, I think it might make it more interesting.

I have my doubts that car racing and horse racing are compatible in the same facility and furthermore, we have a whole new community being built just down the hill from RCR and in time it will be almost next door to the east.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have my doubts that car racing and horse racing are compatible in the same facility and furthermore, we have a whole new community being built just down the hill from RCR and in time it will be almost next door to the east.

I was suggesting killing horse racing all together. We (government) are in the business of making money then using it to serve the people, not making money and then bail out old ideas that don't work and don't give out any benefits.

The seclusion (as in alone in a field, not disturbing anyone with plenty of space for big ideas such as racetracks and amusement parks) of RCR was the one thing that gave it an edge in my mind. But now, if we are expanding suburban hell and NIMBY potential northward towards it, that should push it out of the race since it no longer has that one and only advantage.

We need to give the Airport, Melnyk and whomever was looking at downtown equal opportunity to bid on a casino. We can't play favourites, especially not when the favourite ahs never done anything for anyone.

[Cre47]

Double-A bid rejected by Committee.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...ttee-1.1875047

And immediately followed by three quick post in Gray's blog, 11 posts in the past week alone

[JeffB]

I get why Grey would prefer having AA baseball over the Can-Am league, especially if the team were aligned with the Blue Jays. But the deal to bring AA baseball to Ottawa is far more complex than he is letting on. There is no word on what team would be moving to Ottawa (as it would have to be a relocation). The ownership group, Mandalay, didn't make itself known until fairly recently (considering people have been discussing it for a couple of years), and according to Ken Grey himself, the company that would own the team was itself for sale only a few months ago. And the "proper process" that was put in place to "legitimize" the decision gave Mandalay the opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot by asking for $40M in renovations to the stadium. One that many people would wonder why it would need that kind of overhaul. Oh, and I believe city staff was not given an assurance that it would be a Blue Jays affiliate, at least not initially.

[jay2018]

If we were really set on double aa i would like to have seen how much it would have cost to build a new stadium vs fixing up the current one.