Waterpark Developments

[Acajack]

[QUOTE=BlackRedGold;3268413]You can't assume that everyone living north of the Ottawa River is a francophone who knows little about Ottawa's west end. I know lots of people who are aren't francophones that live in Quebec because of the cheap housing prices. I also see them shopping at Bayshore or at Senators games.
QUOTE]

I didn't say *everyone* was francophone. But one can't deny that something like 85% of them are. It's not me that's saying it, it's Stats Canada!

I don’t really care which of the parks ends up being more successful, if at all. I’m trying to look at it from a logical viewpoint.

People will go to the better product, especially if one is only 15 or 20 minutes further away than the other. I live in Gatineau about 10 min. from the Byward Market and I’m not really sure the Brophy Rd. exit off the 416 is closer to my house than Limoges is off the 417.

Anyway, having been to both Valcartier and Cascades, if the west end Ottawa project is just a slightly bigger version of what they have at Cascades, then the Valcartier people are going to blow them out of the water (pardon the pun). We’re just not playing in the same league here.

Valcartier near Quebec City has about 35 slides. Among other things, it’s got a massive pirate ship set-up and a huge wave pool that’s built into the side of a fake ocean liner. The west end guys are talking about 10 slides, while Sunnyland will apparently be “similar” to Valcartier, without saying whether it will actually be bigger or smaller.

I don't think the Sunnyland-Valcartier people are expecting Montreal to be the major part of their market, but they will draw some people from there. Every bit helps, and there are something like 500,000 people on the West Island alone, so even a small % of them driving down every summer will be gravy for the Limoges park.

[waterloowarrior]

Great North Parks also planed a waterpark near Smith Falls

Jan. 3, 2008 Projects
A rival amusement park near Ottawa forces redesign of Smith Falls project
OTTAWA

Thrills and spills at a proposed $30 million amusement park in Smith Falls will have to wait as the project has been delayed to undergo a redesign due to competition.

“Recently another company announced plans to develop a major park facility in the Barrhaven area. As this company is also a manufacturer of park equipment they are able to build a facility at a fraction of the cost of other developers,” explained Todd Mattila-Hartman, Great North Parks new development director.

“This unfair advantage would create an extremely difficult environment for the proposed Smiths Falls development to compete in.”

Great North Parks Corporation announced this past August that it planned to build a massive water and amusement park with three themed areas including a traditional amusement park with rides, games and food, a water park and a large special events area to host concerts or festivals. The park was to be developed on a 75-acre site which currently is vacant municipal and private land.

Mattila-Hartman recently stated through the Great North Parks Web site that “Great North Parks remains committed to the project, and will begin to redesign the proposal to be competitive in the new marketplace.”
How long this redesign will take and what changes it may entail were unavailable as Great North Parks did not return calls as of press deadline.
— DCN Staff

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/id25901

press release
http://www.greatnorthparks.ca/docs/m...2-10-final.pdf

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by Acajack

People will go to the better product, especially if one is only 15 or 20 minutes further away than the other. I live in Gatineau about 10 min. from the Byward Market and I’m not really sure the Brophy Rd. exit off the 416 is closer to my house than Limoges is off the 417.

The one by the 416 would be about 10 km closer according to Google Maps.

Anyway, having been to both Valcartier and Cascades, if the west end Ottawa project is just a slightly bigger version of what they have at Cascades, then the Valcartier people are going to blow them out of the water (pardon the pun). We’re just not playing in the same league here.

I haven't been to Valcartier and I haven't been to Cascades in over 20 years. But ProSlide. who has sold slides to Valcartier, claims their new park will be six times bigger then Cascades.

Valcartier near Quebec City has about 35 slides. Among other things, it’s got a massive pirate ship set-up and a huge wave pool that’s built into the side of a fake ocean liner. The west end guys are talking about 10 slides, while Sunnyland will apparently be “similar” to Valcartier, without saying whether it will actually be bigger or smaller.

ProSlide is claiming it will open with 10 slides and grow from there. Since Valcartier is claiming the project will take 10 years to complete, I doubt they'll be opening with 35 slides.

Since ProSlide develops and builds their own slides, they'll have a cost advantage as the proposed Smith Falls park has already stated.

[waterloowarrior]

Limoges waterpark siteplan (preliminary version from june 07)

[Aylmer]

I think an urban waterpark would be more interesting than one in the goonies...

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

I think an urban waterpark would be more interesting than one in the goonies...

I think it would be a waste of space and god awful ugly. These things were meant to be built far away from the city where there is ample parking and not many neighbours.

[clynnog]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

I think it would be a waste of space and god awful ugly. These things were meant to be built far away from the city where there is ample parking and not many neighbours.

If it is out in the boondocks how are the teenage kids who work there and want to visit going to get there. A use like this is very difficult to find the optimum location. There is one between Brampton, Etobicoke and Mississagua which has little in the way of neighbours but I believe is close to public transit. Same goes for one in the south end of Kitchener near the 401.

There is another article in today's Citizen about the fight to the finish in terms of approvals etc, in order to start building.

[Acajack]

I too see the public transport logic/problem with these places so isolated from cities, especially for their mainly teen-aged staff. Yet if I look at Valcartier (pretty far out of town) and Mont-Cascades, they always seem to manage. Perhaps they have shuttles to pick up their staff at key transfer points in the city?

Anyway, there isn’t really anywhere in the world right now where these large recreational facilities are being built in the hearts of cities. The cost of land is just too prohibitive, and these places generally need lots of land.

[eemy]

I imagine most of the employment would be concentrated in the local area: Vars, Casselman, Limoges, Russell, Embrun etc.

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I too see the public transport logic/problem with these places so isolated from cities, especially for their mainly teen-aged staff.

The thing is that the teenaged staff is generally going to be old enough to drive since I think you have to be 16 before you can qualify as a lifeguard.

I think the ideal location would have been out by Scotiabank Place so that public transit would have been close and the SBP parking lots could serve the facility.

[p_xavier]

I'm really happy with this annoucement, I just hope that they will try to work with the Alottawatta guys, like they are implying in the articles (and keep the name too). Competition is good, but too much competition may kill the market. Two major parks opening in the same year is too much IMO.

[movebyleap]

"SUNNYLAND"? Lame name.

[AuxTown]

I second that motion

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by movebyleap

"SUNNYLAND"? Lame name.

It's like living in a world of Sunny D! With vitamins! And a sun with glasses!

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by movebyleap

"SUNNYLAND"? Lame name.

It sounds like some US Sunbelt inner-city development that's become a ghetto.

[clynnog]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

The regional councillor, Glenn Brooks, seems to be on board.

Now that is a ringing endorsement. Glenn Brooks is not one of the more dynamic guys on Ottawa Council.

[clynnog]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But then again, south and west Ottawa and outlying areas may easily be large enough to support a new waterpark with little or no clientele from the Quebec side. Perhaps as well, if these are the same people as Mont-Cascades, maybe they think the Quebec side and some stragglers from Ottawa is a big enough market to support Cascades, and that there’s an untapped market in that part of the region that finds Cascades too far and maybe even too French (don’t laugh, more people than you suspect actually think that way).

Unfortunately, you've hit the bullseye there. There are many Ottawa residents who never venture to 819 for fear (unsupported) that they will get lost etc., and nobody will be able to speak english. My french is rudimentary at best, and I try and speak french initially when in 819 etc, and have never had a problem with the language etc. My BIL and SIL were here last year on Canada Day (they live in Brantford, Ontario...capital of the Ontario rustbelt) and we went to see the fireworks from Jacques Cartier park. Believe it or not ,they felt nervous walking from Parc Fontaine in Hull to Jacques Cartier as they didn't hear anybody speaking english.

On the flip side there are many people in QC who try and avoid going anywhere too english etc., in Ontario and Ottawa.

This fear goes both ways.

IMHO Mont Cascades is one place you would never have trouble in the Outaouis just speaking english. The same goes for Aylmer, the Casino, Mont St. Marie, Tremblant, Montebello, the Pontiac etc.

[harls]

Originally Posted by clynnog

On the flip side there are many people in QC who try and avoid going anywhere too english etc., in Ontario and Ottawa.

My mother-in-law is like that. When she visits from Quebec City, she never takes the 417 for fear of getting lost somewhere or breaking down in Ottawa trying to find my place in Gatineau. No getting through to her.

[lrt's friend]

I was always hoping that entrepreneurs would form a partnership with the CCEA to develop a permanent amusement and water park on Albion Road. Obviously, the location away from a major highway is not ideal for such an investment. Too bad investors would not consider the proximity to proposed rapid transit as an asset. Maybe when we reach $1.50 to $2.00 per litre gas, thinking will change.

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Too bad investors would not consider the proximity to proposed rapid transit as an asset.

It's not that they don't think it would be an asset. The problem is that land close to rapid transit would be far too expensive to make a project like this feasible.