Closest working class SFH neighborhood to the CBD by metros?

[Docere]

Maybe restrict this to metros of at least 1 million, perhaps even 2 million. Because obviously in smaller areas they will be very close.

In Toronto, very little of the city core hasn't been touched by gentrification at this point, with most low income people living in public or cooperative housing and the homeowning working class is pretty much gone from the core.

The closest working class SFH neighborhood is probably Earlscourt (aka "Corso Italia") an Italian and Portuguese neighborhood which is about 10 km/6 miles northwest of City Hall. It's located in the transition zone between the core and "Ford Nation" (the working class periphery of the city where Rob Ford's support base was municipally).

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ear...XPDqgQ8gEIbTAK

By working class I mean: the housing isn't outrageously expensive for the area and an overwhelming majority are not college graduates or in the professional-managerial class.

[dave8721]

For Miami it would be Shenandoah neighborhood. Only about 2 miles to a mile and a half outside of downtown, its a largely immigrant single family neighoborhood sandwiched between wealthy enclaves like the Roads and Brickell to the East, Coconut Grove to the South, Coral Gables to the west and poor immigrant heavy Little Havana to the north. Its actually kind of suprising that it never fully gentrified, or at least has not yet.
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/She...1!4d-80.222271

Streetview of typical street, with small 1920's through 1950's homes:
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/She...1!4d-80.222271

[MonkeyRonin]

I don't think any single family housing in Toronto could be described as "working class", as far as current prices go - even in the periphery. Working class people are renters, or at best own a condo. There are of course a lot of older working class homeowners who purchased before prices skyrocketed (most concentrated in the suburbs, but there are still many in the inner-city that haven't cashed out yet), but nowadays SFH ownership is pretty much off limits to anyone outside of the professional class.

That said, the above mentioned Earlscourt/Silverthorne/Weston area as well as East York have the nearest-in affordable-ish single family housing, with small bungalows and semis still available in the ~$500,000 range.

[mhays]

In Seattle, old exclusionsary policies focused poverty in the "Central District" starting less than a mile east of I-5, which edges the Financial District. This area is gentrifying quickly, and much of it is densifying with townhouses and lowrise apartments. Anything south of that has also been cheap and is now gentrifying, including Beacon Hill for example, and is mostly densifying more slowly. Keep going south and some areas might be affordable to more working class types.

To the north, there are lots of SFR zones, which tend to be more protected against demon density, but they're expensive (hence their ability to keep out the "other" people).

[Docere]

Some streets in Earlscourt:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.67772...8i6656!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.67983...8i6656!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/179...587557!6m1!1e1

And Silverthorn, in the former borough of York, to the north:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Sil...732009!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.68391...8i6656!6m1!1e1

[Crawford]

For NYC it would probably be The Heights section of Jersey City. There's certainly gentrification, but the overall feel is still working class.

If we're talking totally working class, no hint of gentrification, I think it would be Secaucus, just a regular blue collar NJ suburb close to Manhattan.

If we're talking within NYC limits, I would say Maspeth, Queens, a working class white ethnic enclave close to Manhattan and kind of "off the grid" surrounded by cemeteries and warehouses, and far from the subway lines (which are drivers of immigration and gentrification).

Maspeth and the Heights aren't majority SFH (probably nowhere close), but they have quite a bit. Secaucus is probably majority SFH, though.

[hipster duck]

In Vancouver, there is almost literally nothing. I did a very quick unscientific search and found the cheapest SFH in the least desirable neighborhood in the region: Whalley, Surrey. That's about 30 km away from downtown Vancouver, although you can ride rapid transit to the very end of the line.

This home, while not bad, is $750,000.

As per Canadian mortgage rules, the minimum downpayment on this home would be $50,000 (5% of the first $500k and 10% of the next $250k).

[James Bond Agent 007]

Lots of this in KC ... Northeast Kansas City is the most obvious one, which is basically next to downtown.

[Crawford]

I don't think average home prices necessarily means an area isn't working class. These areas can have lots of highly paid tradespeople (often better paid than professionals).

And home prices are often irrelevent, because homes are passed down intergenerationally, and existing homeowners benefit from the price increases. Someplace like Bensonhurst feels working class to me, but it will be really tough to get a home for under 700k.

[Docere]

Lots of tradespeople live in the Earlscourt and Silverthorne areas I posted above for Toronto.

Those who actually own their own businesses (as opposed to working for someone else) aren't really working class by definition, but they are "culturally" working class in many respects and tend to live in working class areas.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And home prices are often irrelevent, because homes are passed down intergenerationally, and existing homeowners benefit from the price increases. Someplace like Bensonhurst feels working class to me, but it will be really tough to get a home for under 700k.

That's true to some extent, but home equity also leads to class advancement.

Many of today's urban working class are first or second generation immigrants who didn't really benefit from property-based wealth transfer.

[Chef]

Minneapolis has a lot of working class areas near downtown, some of them are mostly single family houses - the near North Side, Northeast, Phillips and Seward are all a mile or two from the edge of downtown. Up until a year or two ago you could still buy houses in Northeast for under $100k, and Northeast doesn't have any major crime issues. You can still buy a house for five figures on the North Side but those neighborhoods have more issues.

I think this is a thing where the more intact Midwestern cities do well.

[dc_denizen]

Woodside, queens?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Woodside, queens?

To me, that's an immigrant area, with some gentrification, and not really working class in the sense of white ethnic union plumbers and the like.

Also likely a relatively low % of SFH.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by dave8721

For Miami it would be Shenandoah neighborhood. Only about 2 miles to a mile and a half outside of downtown, its a largely immigrant single family neighoborhood sandwiched between wealthy enclaves like the Roads and Brickell to the East, Coconut Grove to the South, Coral Gables to the west and poor immigrant heavy Little Havana to the north. Its actually kind of suprising that it never fully gentrified, or at least has not yet.

I used to work close to there and it's a really nice neighborhood for the price. A lot of it is not exactly gentrifying, but definitely improving in spots. I even looked at a couple of homes there way back when, but it's just a bit too ethnic for me. I mean, I don't expect everyone in Miami to speak English, or even most people, but it's nice to be able to go the grocery store and have a conversation with at least 1 or 2 people that understands me.

Also, I'm curious why you don't consider East Little Havana? Is it semantics about what is working class, or you just don't consider it SF? It's a good mix, and most of the homes there seem to be subdivided, so I get it if that's why. But it is just across the river from downtown.

[memph]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I don't think any single family housing in Toronto could be described as "working class", as far as current prices go - even in the periphery. Working class people are renters, or at best own a condo. There are of course a lot of older working class homeowners who purchased before prices skyrocketed (most concentrated in the suburbs, but there are still many in the inner-city that haven't cashed out yet), but nowadays SFH ownership is pretty much off limits to anyone outside of the professional class.

That said, the above mentioned Earlscourt/Silverthorne/Weston area as well as East York have the nearest-in affordable-ish single family housing, with small bungalows and semis still available in the ~$500,000 range.

I think you could argue working class is not necessarily the same as poor or working poor. People working in the trades, manufacturing, truck drivers...

Also single family type structures doesn't mean they're going to be home to a single conventional household, nor does it mean homeowners. The house could be rented out in its entirety, you could have basement apartments, room-mates and multi-generational/expanded households. You might have people that bought when prices were lower, and others that bought recently but are stretched thin (definitely over the often advised 3x income mortgage).

I would agree with Earlscourt/Silverthorn, as well as the Dentonia Park/Oakridge area being the closest to a working class neighbourhood closer to the core.

There are parts of NW and NE Toronto, Miliken, Malvern and parts of Brampton that are mostly SFH that I think could be considered working class. They might skew a bit more towards trades and manufacturing than service sector compared to apartment neighbourhoods, but still much more working class than average. And more working class than Earlscourt too.

[memph]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

In Vancouver, there is almost literally nothing. I did a very quick unscientific search and found the cheapest SFH in the least desirable neighborhood in the region: Whalley, Surrey. That's about 30 km away from downtown Vancouver, although you can ride rapid transit to the very end of the line.

This home, while not bad, is $750,000.

As per Canadian mortgage rules, the minimum downpayment on this home would be $50,000 (5% of the first $500k and 10% of the next $250k).

Yes, but... look at this listing for example.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V3W0J2

4000 sf for $1.2m, but it includes a 2 bedroom unit and 3 bedroom unit that are rented out in addition to the 4 bedroom main unit. Household sizes are probably on the large side too, so houses like that might have 10-15 people living in them.

[Docere]

Multi-generational and subdivided SFHs have got to be the "norm" in Vancouver's traditionally working class east side where houses are "only" around $1 million (compared to $2 million+ on the west side) but incomes remain quite low.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Crawford

For NYC it would probably be The Heights section of Jersey City. There's certainly gentrification, but the overall feel is still working class.

If we're talking totally working class, no hint of gentrification, I think it would be Secaucus, just a regular blue collar NJ suburb close to Manhattan.

If we're talking within NYC limits, I would say Maspeth, Queens, a working class white ethnic enclave close to Manhattan and kind of "off the grid" surrounded by cemeteries and warehouses, and far from the subway lines (which are drivers of immigration and gentrification).

Maspeth and the Heights aren't majority SFH (probably nowhere close), but they have quite a bit. Secaucus is probably majority SFH, though.

What about Staten Island or the Black neighborhoods of SE Queens?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

What about Staten Island or the Black neighborhoods of SE Queens?

Yeah, those would arguably qualify. I was thinking more tradesman type neighborhoods. SE Queens is more middle class and has a ton of govt. employees, and is mostly black. SI varies, but the central and southern portions tend to be more high-middle income, but with lots of white ethnic tradesmen types.

Also the South Shore of LI has lots of these types of communities along the LIRR, but like SI, maybe a bit higher income than a Maspeth or Secaucus.