HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 6:57 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
And for a good part of the 19th Century, St. Louis was a very important and cosmopolitan city, even more so than Chicago was.
NY was still well above it though.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 7:21 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
You'd think with the insane power and influence this city has on the world, they would have had the Olympics at some point at least once.

The biggest problem New York has to organizing and hosting the games is overwhelming NIMBYism. Hosting the Olympics usually requires a large amount of new construction, something people in the city are all too ready to fight. The last Olympic bid was thrown into chaos when the location of the stadium was being bounced around. But there was NIMBYism in even some of the smaller venues. And then there were the complaints about the crowds (like the city has never seen those).

If New York were to develop a bid, it would have to be a serious one. It can't be shifted on the whims of NIMBYism and general complaints, because those are going to happen no matter what. Once you get beyond that, then you can focus on the financial issues involved.


But here's an example of some of that "we don't need the Olympics" attitude...


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/bo...icle-1.1793616

The International Olympic Committee already spurned New York City once, let’s not give them a second chance
New York City is already a great city, some say the greatest on the planet, and doesn't need approval of its standing from a bunch of crooked, smug IOC members.
And it doesn't need the post-Olympic headaches that cities like Atlanta and Beijing have dealt with.



Thursday, May 15, 2014


Quote:
The bad news around here is that special-interest commercial developers are trying to push through another New York bid to host the Summer Olympics. The good news is that Mayor de Blasio is likely too smart and practical to get involved in such a mire.

Anybody who was in Singapore back in 2005, when the International Olympic Committee spurned New York as a potential host city, can tell you that this is a long process that our municipality never wants to get involved with again. After jumping through hoops and trying in vain to jam through an ill-advised new stadium for the West Side, NYC 2012 organizers were quickly snubbed by politicized (and monetized) IOC members in early-round voting.

Asked then what New York might have done to win an Olympic bid, Juan Antonio Samaranch, the retired IOC president, turned around at the top of an escalator bank, smiled, and arrogantly said, "Bid again."


http://www.nj.com/olympics/index.ssf..._olympics.html

Politi: New York shouldn't waste its time, and money, bidding for Olympics


By Steve Politi/Star-Ledger Columnist
May 15, 2014


Quote:
The key words here are "looking at it" and "very preliminary," because they indicate the people who will make this decision can come to their senses before wasting too much time, energy and — most of all — money.

Because that, ultimately, is what will happen if New York decides to pursue a bid for the 2024 Summer Olympics. Again.

It is unbelievable but true: Gov. Andrew Cuomo confirmed a report out of London that the state was considering a bid, less than a decade after the IOC pretty much laughed a New York bid out of the room.

"We are looking at it," Cuomo told reporters in Albany Wednesday, and you know that "we" will eventually cover this side of the Hudson River, too, just like it did in 2005, when New York bid the last time.


We all know how that turned out. New York spent millions on the marketing and planning for the three-week event, building some of the infrastructure needed to make it happen, and the effort finished fourth. London got the Olympics in a narrow vote over Paris. New York didn’t even get onto the medal stand.

Why try again? Then again, given the overwhelming costs, security concerns and other general headaches, why would any U.S. city go groveling to the IOC?

It is a question the U.S. Olympic Committee must consider. Certainly, there is a prestige that comes from hosting the Olympics, and showcasing an American city to the world has its benefits. The U.S. has hosted eight times, including four times from 1980 to 2002 alone, and most times the Games were considered a success.

Still, the times have changed. It cost a whopping $51 billion for Sochi to host the Olympics this past winter, and many people will remember the Games for faulty door knobs and broken showers — aka, the #SochiProblems. Some investment.

Given the security concerns in that region, Sochi was essentially turned into a police state for the winter. New York doesn’t have that regional instability, but it already has been a terrorism target. Imagine trying to secure an Olympics that would cover the five boroughs and New Jersey against threats.

Then, there would be the new facilities and needed infrastructure improvements. The IOC favors flashy new construction over existing venues, adding to the costs. It might be one thing for a country like China, desperate to show itself as a world power, to invest those billions in facilities that might quickly become vacant and useless.

The U.S. doesn’t need that. New York certainly doesn’t need that. It already is the best city in the world — just ask anyone walking the streets — and hosting the table-tennis and judo competition isn’t going to add to that.

"We are evaluating now whether we want to bid for 2024 (Summer Games)," Scott Blackmun, the CEO of USOC, said from Sochi. "We’re talking to a handful of cities, and if we determine that a 2024 bid is not in the interest of the Olympic movement in the U.S., then we will shift our analysis to whether or not the 2026 (Winter Games) makes sense."

The USOC has reason to exercise caution. It was stunned when an excellent bid from Chicago to host the 2016 Games finished fourth out of the four finalists. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, was the choice, and the IOC is already griping about the slow progress on the facilities.

This is nothing new, of course. As Yahoo Sports columnist Dan Wetzel wrote, "when the IOC doesn’t think it’s being treated properly, it goes vengeful and runs to the media. It ought to date Donald Sterling."

Still, the Associated Press reported that four U.S. cities — Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco and Dallas — are considering a bid. New York Mayor Bill de Blasio isn’t thrilled with the idea of making the massive investment in a bid, which is one reason for New Yorkers fearing the midtown gridlock to relax. The bidding would begin next year with the winner announced in 2017.

Let Boston or San Fran have the headaches. Cuomo might be "looking at it" and having "very preliminary" discussions, but New York should tell the IOC to take its five-ring circus someplace else.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 8:48 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
The biggest problem New York has to organizing and hosting the games is overwhelming NIMBYism. Hosting the Olympics usually requires a large amount of new construction, something people in the city are all too ready to fight. The last Olympic bid was thrown into chaos when the location of the stadium was being bounced around. But there was NIMBYism in even some of the smaller venues. And then there were the complaints about the crowds (like the city has never seen those).

If New York were to develop a bid, it would have to be a serious one. It can't be shifted on the whims of NIMBYism and general complaints, because those are going to happen no matter what. Once you get beyond that, then you can focus on the financial issues involved.


But here's an example of some of that "we don't need the Olympics" attitude...


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/bo...icle-1.1793616

The International Olympic Committee already spurned New York City once, let’s not give them a second chance
New York City is already a great city, some say the greatest on the planet, and doesn't need approval of its standing from a bunch of crooked, smug IOC members.
And it doesn't need the post-Olympic headaches that cities like Atlanta and Beijing have dealt with.



Thursday, May 15, 2014






http://www.nj.com/olympics/index.ssf..._olympics.html

Politi: New York shouldn't waste its time, and money, bidding for Olympics


By Steve Politi/Star-Ledger Columnist
May 15, 2014
The people who think about the Olympics in only negative light are fools. NYC is not going to be the king city forever. Other world cities could easily surpass it if they rest of their laurels. The olympics are a massive marketing campaign for a city and let's face it, the infrastructure in the city is not world-class and needs work. Does NYC want to be the city that is

Last edited by aquablue; May 15, 2014 at 9:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 8:58 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
NYC/NJ/Miami-Dade
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 45,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
And for a good part of the 19th Century, St. Louis was a very important and cosmopolitan city, even more so than Chicago was.
Detroit as well. Detroit use to be the model city. The place where everybody wanted to be.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 10:09 PM
BoiseAirport BoiseAirport is offline
Dare Mighty Things
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,252
Hosting the Olympics just isn't as big a deal in the United States as it is in most other parts of the world. That's why the IOC is wary of bringing the games back to the US so soon.

The Olympics isn't just about athletic competitions. They are the ultimate "megaphone" for a country. Hosting the games is about rallying national unity, celebrating growth and prosperity, and setting a new inspiring vision for that country's future to an attentive, global audience of 2 billion people.

Take Beijing 2008 for example. Many of the people who helped organize the games lived through (or had close relatives who lived through) the Great Chinese Famine and the numerous other tragedies that killed tens of millions of people during the Great Leap Forward. That's the kind of unfathomable tragedy and turmoil that people in the US struggle to comprehend. In the decades since, things majorly turned around for China, and the Olympics became the ultimate symbolic "Look how far we've come" celebration party.

For Munich, it was about showcasing a new, modern Germany entirely separated from the Germany of WWII. For Sochi, it was about demonstrating to the world Russia post-Soviet Union. For Tokyo 2020, it's about overcoming the setback of the 2011 earthquake and reasserting Japan's place on the world stage.

From the average US citizen's perspective, we don't need to showcase our culture, prosperity, and vision to the world because a) we already did that with Los Angeles 1984, Atlanta 1996, and Salt Lake 2002, and b) Hollywood/Mass media has accomplished that mission every single day since the early 20th Century. For us, hosting would carry little of the symbolism that existed with Beijing 2008 and so many of the other Olympic games.

That's why hosting generates little public support compared to other nations, and the IOC doesn't want to give it to a country that doesn't really really want it. It's why pinching pennies with mega corporate contracts, sponsorship deals, and existing facilities will do little to impress the IOC when there's many other nations eager and willing to build landmark stadiums for a chance at expressing itself to the world. It's not anti-Americanism, but rather giving new nations and new places a once-in-a-lifetime chance to hold that megaphone.

All that being said, the games will come back to the United States someday, and I think New York would be the most exciting, most fitting host city.
__________________
BOISETOPIA is hibernating
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 10:21 PM
Hamilton Hamilton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Journal Square
Posts: 446
This thread is idle waste of space. This isn't going to happen. There is no popular support and little political support for this in the city, and the Olympic Committee doesn't want to give it to a city without political/popular support.

As other mentioned, America doesn't care enough about the Olympics, and that goes double for NYC.

Countries that feel they have 'something to prove' are just going to have much more political/popular will behind their bids.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 10:46 PM
TarHeelJ TarHeelJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
The people who think about the Olympics in only negative light are fools. NYC is not going to be the king city forever. Other world cities could easily surpass it if they rest of their laurels. The olympics are a massive marketing campaign for a city and let's face it, the infrastructure in the city is not world-class and needs work. Does NYC want to be the city that is
London doesn't need the publicity or exposure either, but look at all of the benefits of the 2012 Olympics. No city is above the positive impact that it brings.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 11:07 PM
SHiRO's Avatar
SHiRO SHiRO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by ue View Post
^ The IOC is Eurocentric.
In my lifetime the Summer Olympics have been hosted in Europe only 3 times. Hardly seems excessive...

Europe: 3 times (Barcelona, Athens and London)
USA: 2 times (Los Angeles and Atlanta)
Russia: 1 time (Moscow)
East Asia: 2 times (Seoul and Beijing)
Australia: 1 time (Sydney)

The next Summer Olympics are going to be in Rio de Janeiro (South America) and Tokyo (East Asia).

Note the only country that hosted them twice during that period...
__________________
For some the coast signifies the end of their country and for some it signifies the beginning of the world...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 11:08 PM
SHiRO's Avatar
SHiRO SHiRO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoiseAirport View Post
Hosting the Olympics just isn't as big a deal in the United States as it is in most other parts of the world. That's why the IOC is wary of bringing the games back to the US so soon.

The Olympics isn't just about athletic competitions. They are the ultimate "megaphone" for a country. Hosting the games is about rallying national unity, celebrating growth and prosperity, and setting a new inspiring vision for that country's future to an attentive, global audience of 2 billion people.

Take Beijing 2008 for example. Many of the people who helped organize the games lived through (or had close relatives who lived through) the Great Chinese Famine and the numerous other tragedies that killed tens of millions of people during the Great Leap Forward. That's the kind of unfathomable tragedy and turmoil that people in the US struggle to comprehend. In the decades since, things majorly turned around for China, and the Olympics became the ultimate symbolic "Look how far we've come" celebration party.

For Munich, it was about showcasing a new, modern Germany entirely separated from the Germany of WWII. For Sochi, it was about demonstrating to the world Russia post-Soviet Union. For Tokyo 2020, it's about overcoming the setback of the 2011 earthquake and reasserting Japan's place on the world stage.

From the average US citizen's perspective, we don't need to showcase our culture, prosperity, and vision to the world because a) we already did that with Los Angeles 1984, Atlanta 1996, and Salt Lake 2002, and b) Hollywood/Mass media has accomplished that mission every single day since the early 20th Century. For us, hosting would carry little of the symbolism that existed with Beijing 2008 and so many of the other Olympic games.

That's why hosting generates little public support compared to other nations, and the IOC doesn't want to give it to a country that doesn't really really want it. It's why pinching pennies with mega corporate contracts, sponsorship deals, and existing facilities will do little to impress the IOC when there's many other nations eager and willing to build landmark stadiums for a chance at expressing itself to the world. It's not anti-Americanism, but rather giving new nations and new places a once-in-a-lifetime chance to hold that megaphone.

All that being said, the games will come back to the United States someday, and I think New York would be the most exciting, most fitting host city.
Good post!
__________________
For some the coast signifies the end of their country and for some it signifies the beginning of the world...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 3:01 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,741
The temptation to get the olympics again in the US will always be there and no words like "we're the USA and we don't need the stupid olympics because we're the USA and we have enough global attention and prosperity" is going to stop that urge some cities will have to mount a bid. It won't stop other developed and wealthy cities from bidding and receiving the games, so why should NYC not give it a go given it's global history and status? Americans don't rest on their laurels and NYC shouldn't either. It may not be the 'center of the world' in 2026 anymore. China and the East is rising, by then the USA and its major cities may need something to get the world's attention again. NYC is the best placed city to get that attention and the only one I think that can actually sway the IOC in the age of glamour games. It's worth the risk even as purely a marketing campaign for the country and city and the potential infrastructure/community benefits it may bring.

Last edited by aquablue; May 16, 2014 at 3:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 7:35 AM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 21,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
And for a good part of the 19th Century, St. Louis was a very important and cosmopolitan city, even more so than Chicago was.
But by 1900, Chicago had about 3x the population of St. Louis. And the 1904 Olympics in St. Louis were generally a disaster, but anyway...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 7:42 AM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 21,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoiseAirport View Post
Hosting the Olympics just isn't as big a deal in the United States as it is in most other parts of the world. That's why the IOC is wary of bringing the games back to the US so soon.

The Olympics isn't just about athletic competitions. They are the ultimate "megaphone" for a country. Hosting the games is about rallying national unity, celebrating growth and prosperity, and setting a new inspiring vision for that country's future to an attentive, global audience of 2 billion people.

...
Well the broadly accepted story nowadays is that the US is in decline on a relative basis... that the 20th was the American century but the 21st is not. Who knows where things will stand 10 years from now? Perhaps the US will be able to use the opportunity for a "we're still #1" moment...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 5:14 PM
Serenade Serenade is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 482
Paris is a lock for 2024. Everyone else is bidding for second place.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 5:35 PM
The Illusive Man's Avatar
The Illusive Man The Illusive Man is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: The City of Champions! Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 194
LA's got this thing sewn up. No other place is better for the Olympics than LA. Many Olympians train here and live here, the weather is the summer is far better than mostly anywhere and we already have mostly everything in place. LA will get it for the third time. Maybe not 2024, but possibly 28 or 32. It's inevitable. Sorry NY.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 5:52 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,849
So Paris has it "locked up" for 2024 and LA "sewn up" for 2032. I'll bet on Harbin for 2052, I guess? Makes as much sense as the other wild guesses.

People were really shocked at the selections for three of the last four Olympics, and absolutely stunned at the last World Cup selection. Unless you're the one bribing the committee with hookers, cash and blow, I doubt anyone knows who will be chosen.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 6:19 PM
HomeInMyShoes's Avatar
HomeInMyShoes HomeInMyShoes is offline
arf
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: File 13
Posts: 13,984
Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
You'd think with the insane power and influence this city has on the world, they would have had the Olympics at some point at least once.

And yet St. Louis has hosted them...

...Go figure.
The 1904 Olympics were given to Chicago, but there's a story behind why it ended up in St. Louis.

Someone needs to put the bid in. The 2012 push might have been hampered by North America (Vancouver) getting the Winter Olympics. With an even reasonably compelling bid, North America stands a pretty good chance of hosting 2024. I would expect the toughest competition would be from a potential much-coveted African host.
__________________

-- “We heal each other with kindness, gentleness and respect.” -- Richard Wagamese
-- “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” -- Dr. Seuss
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 6:35 PM
sopas ej's Avatar
sopas ej sopas ej is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Pasadena, California
Posts: 6,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenade View Post
Paris is a lock for 2024. Everyone else is bidding for second place.
... if Paris even bids for 2024. I don't think it's a sure thing yet; I thought I read somewhere that the French NOC wants to analyze why their Annecy 2018 Winter Olympic bid failed, before they proceed with a Paris bid for 2024


Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
The 1904 Olympics were given to Chicago, but there's a story behind why it ended up in St. Louis.
Yes, the 1904 Olympics were indeed going to be hosted by Chicago, but the IOC moved them to St. Louis when St. Louis threatened to host their own sports festival, being that St. Louis was also hosting the World's Fair that year. As a result, the Olympics of 1904 were an unorganized sideshow to the World's Fair, and generally seen as a disaster, as were the 1900 Olympics in Paris--which were also a sideshow to the International Expo that Paris was also hosting that year.

As an aside, Rome was supposed to host the 1908 Olympics but because of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius, Rome's finances were strapped, and London stepped in to host the 1908 Games. Berlin was supposed to host 1916 but those Games were canceled because of WWI. Tokyo was supposed to host 1940 but dropped out after the Invasion of Manchuria in 1937, and the 1940 Games were given to Helsinki. The 1940 Games of course were canceled because of WWII, as was the 1944 Games, which would have been in London. All those cities would host later on.
__________________
"I guess the only time people think about injustice is when it happens to them."

~ Charles Bukowski
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 7:08 PM
jd3189 jd3189 is offline
An Optimistic Realist
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA / West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 5,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Illusive Man View Post
LA's got this thing sewn up. No other place is better for the Olympics than LA. Many Olympians train here and live here, the weather is the summer is far better than mostly anywhere and we already have mostly everything in place. LA will get it for the third time. Maybe not 2024, but possibly 28 or 32. It's inevitable. Sorry NY.
LA is too soon. Besides, we need to show off our other cities, preferably our other large metropolises in the East Coast.
__________________
Working towards making American cities walkable again!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
Chase Unperson's Avatar
Chase Unperson Chase Unperson is offline
Freakbirthed
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Papa Songs.
Posts: 4,329
The only city I would root for over NY would be Paris. They are the two grandest most important cities in the world. An Olympics in either one would be magical.
__________________
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted May 16, 2014, 7:15 PM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,480
^ Except that Paris has already hosted the games and would basically win the 2024 games solely for nostalgic purposes. NYC is the glaring global city that hasn't hosted the games, so I don't know why you'd root for Paris over NYC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
In my lifetime the Summer Olympics have been hosted in Europe only 3 times. Hardly seems excessive...

Europe: 3 times (Barcelona, Athens and London)
USA: 2 times (Los Angeles and Atlanta)
Russia: 1 time (Moscow)
East Asia: 2 times (Seoul and Beijing)
Australia: 1 time (Sydney)

The next Summer Olympics are going to be in Rio de Janeiro (South America) and Tokyo (East Asia).

Note the only country that hosted them twice during that period...
The only country that has hosted them twice is also far larger than any other country that has hosted the games in the past 30 years, except for China.

To North Americans, Moscow is European, due to it being west of the Urals, so it has actually hosted 4 times. Not to mention practically every major European city with international significance has hosted the games already (otherwise, why give the games to London, why not Manchester or Edinburgh). But the US still has so many major, internationally significant cities that have yet to host the games.

You'd think the IOC would want to tread through to new territories than giving the same cities the games. If the IOC were less Eurocentric, Chicago, DC, Miami, SF, Houston, Boston, Toronto, and maybe Guadalajara or Dallas would've hosted the games by now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:05 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.