Ontario School Boards - Time to Merge

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Has the gym requirement changed? When I was in high school (post-Harris), one gym credit was required but it could be taken in any of the four years. I took mine in Grade 10.

FYI - in Quebec gym class was made mandatory in every single year of elementary and secondary about 10 years ago. The idea was to fight obesity.

My kids are in good shape and very active so they don't need it and have always hated it.

I wish I could replace it with another math, science, French or English class.

[toaster]

Still only one Gym credit requirement in Secondary.

A few years back the Ontario Ministry of Education introduced a requirement for DPA - Daily Physical Activity. I believe it is 20 minutes of required Daily Physical Activity from K-8. Don't think it can be logistically implemented in a High School setting.

Re: World Religions is an optional course in all publicly funded Ontario schools (Catholic and Public) where there is a demand (enough students) to take the course.

Also, Catholic school boards always tend to be smaller than Public School boards. It is not only a GTA thing. It is only in the French systems where the Catholic boards are larger, partly because of the issues discussed here already, and because French Public school systems are still relatively new to Ontario.

Look at the physical land masses of Catholic boards. They always have either the same, or usually much larger geographic area, because they don't have a population base in the smaller geographic area as the public boards do. It's quite simple to do quick comparisons. So the notion that Catholic systems are larger outside of the GTA is categorically false, when talking about the English systems. I would be interested to see the ages of people on here supporting maintaining the Catholic systems, and the ages of those who support mergers. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone younger than 30 who supports government funding for Catholic schools.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by toaster

Still only one Gym credit requirement in Secondary.

A few years back the Ontario Ministry of Education introduced a requirement for DPA - Daily Physical Activity. I believe it is 20 minutes of required Daily Physical Activity from K-8. Don't think it can be logistically implemented in a High School setting.

Re: World Religions is an optional course in all publicly funded Ontario schools (Catholic and Public) where there is a demand (enough students) to take the course.

Also, Catholic school boards always tend to be smaller than Public School boards. It is not only a GTA thing. It is only in the French systems where the Catholic boards are larger, partly because of the issues discussed here already, and because French Public school systems are still relatively new to Ontario.

Look at the physical land masses of Catholic boards. They always have either the same, or usually much larger geographic area, because they don't have a population base in the smaller geographic area as the public boards do. It's quite simple to do quick comparisons. So the notion that Catholic systems are larger outside of the GTA is categorically false, when talking about the English systems. I would be interested to see the ages of people on here supporting maintaining the Catholic systems, and the ages of those who support mergers. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone younger than 30 who supports government funding for Catholic schools.

Cornwall has more Catholic high schools than public... might be the case for parts of Prescott-Russell as well.

[vid]

In Thunder Bay, the English Catholic board covers a smaller territory than the English Public Board (it has no rural schools at all, while the English board has schools as much as 500km away from the city), but the French Public Board is huge (Thunder Bay to Sudbury, including Sault Ste. Marie, Elliot Lake and Greenstone) compared to the French Catholic board, and it doesn't have enough students to actually have a school in Thunder Bay.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by vid

In Thunder Bay, the English Catholic board covers a smaller territory than the English Public Board (it has no rural schools at all, while the English board has schools as much as 500km away from the city), but the French Public Board is huge (Thunder Bay to Sudbury, including Sault Ste. Marie, Elliot Lake and Greenstone) compared to the French Catholic board, and it doesn't have enough students to actually have a school in Thunder Bay.

It's likely that they have jurisdiction over that rural area, but just don't operate schools because there isn't a demand for it.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by toaster

You would rather just leave it the way it is? Is that how you felt about marriage, too? Between a man and a woman, because that's the way it was? Women not having a right to vote, because that's the way it was? Come on.

Just because something has been a way for a while, doesn't make it right.
Most people see the value in developing friendships, and leaning, with a diverse culture and group of people; because that's the way it is in the real world. Public funding should not privilege one group to the detriment of others. Public entities should not be allowed to discriminate based on LGBTQ status, which the Catholic System can do.
If you want a Catholic school? Fine.. pay for it and build it with your funds. Just like if Muslims want a Muslim school, or Jews want a Jewish school.
And why have two schools in one building? Why waste money making it "two schools" instead of just one, where people from different religions can, you know, go to school together? Sounds like a "black school" "white school" to me..

Have I returned from the 1940s?

I don't see the problem. The way it's set up when you vote, you choose to which school board you want to support, so it's not like you have to support the catholic school board if you don't want to. & I've been in catholic schools my whole life and have met tons of people (from public schools too), and have developed great friendships with them. Plus I still grew up in diverse school communities. You can still get the same values in a catholic school.

That's the whole point of having 2 schools together. Like I said it works great, and those kids are getting the 'values' they need. The schools share a library, gym, cafeteria, classrooms, auditorium, computer labs, etc.

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Do you not think it's unfair that education for your religion is free but other families have to pay thousands for dollars a year for religious education?

Tuition for 13 years (K-12) for one child
$188,570 - Toronto District Christian High School
$249,375 - Bialik Hebrew Day School + Community Hebrew Academy of Toronto
$77,800 -ISNA Schools (Muslim)

Well, I wouldn't really call it 'free' education per say, but I do think it is unfair, yes. On the other hand though, there really isn't enough students going to these schools to be able to fund them publicly, plus I've searched up a bunch of these schools to compare tuitions and some of them weren't even half bad. I found a Hebrew school in Hamilton that charges $12000 for K-8. Looks like the schools are doing fine running as they are.

Originally Posted by vid

Who would you replace her with?

I would love to let someone on the NDP have a go at it, tbh. Just someone please get her out of there.. lol.

Originally Posted by vid

Nearly there.

I'm not entirely convinced paying people less will produce a better result. I know a lot of teachers that complain about their pay being too low. But they still make more than me and get two months off (because as we all know, teachers don't do anything at all over the summer ) so I guess I should be mad at them?

That's what I hate the most. They really have no right to complain at all. But that's my point about it, why isn't anyone outraged there are people like the CEO of hydro one making roughly 800 thousand a year, as well as UWOs president making over a million? We pay these people way too much for just sitting on their asses and doing fuck all. I think that 800 million would do better going towards our schools or healthcare instead of being put into another vacation home for some overpaid jerk.

Originally Posted by toaster

I would be interested to see the ages of people on here supporting maintaining the Catholic systems, and the ages of those who support mergers. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone younger than 30 who supports government funding for Catholic schools.

I am one of those people, actually.

Again, my whole thing about merging the schools boards together, is it actually going to save us 'billions of dollars'? Because I have been looking up at other provinces (like Quebec) who have done just that, and the fact is that their debts haven't gone down at all. So, my question is, what really is the benefit of merging the systems? Either way, we still lose more money and still be in debt for years to come.

[vid]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

That's what I hate the most. They really have no right to complain at all. But that's my point about it, why isn't anyone outraged there are people like the CEO of hydro one making roughly 800 thousand a year, as well as UWOs president making over a million? We pay these people way too much for just sitting on their asses and doing fuck all. I think that 800 million would do better going towards our schools or healthcare instead of being put into another vacation home for some overpaid jerk.

They do actually do a fair amount of work running facilities and promoting them, networking, relationship building with other institutions, etc. Is it worth $800,000 a year? Probably not.

But in the end, if you eliminated—not just reduced, but set to $0—the salaries of all the CEOs on the sunshine list, you wouldn't even put a dent into the budget. If all the CEOs in the electrical system worked for free and their salary money was used to offset our bills, we'd only save an average of 9 cents per month. It's nothing. Paying heads of education systems nothing wouldn't actually free up very much for students and could be detrimental since you're not going to find an effective and educated CEO for free.

[1overcosc]

^ Many of these senior executives in the public sector are actually getting paid a lot less than comparable positions in the private sector pay. That CEO of Hydro One getting paid $800k, could probably make several million if he left to go work at a private power company in the USA or Europe.

The problem is? If that CEO was actually good at his job.. he would get that job in the USA. The only reason why people like him work for much less than they're worth is because.. surprise.. they're too shitty at their jobs to be hired anywhere else. You pay below-market salaries, you get subpar staff.

If we want our government services to be well-run, we need high-paid executives. It's life.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I don't see the problem. The way it's set up when you vote, you choose to which school board you want to support, so it's not like you have to support the catholic school board if you don't want to.

This is a common myth but it's not true. This decision on which school board you support only affects property taxes, which make up only 20% of school board funding in Ontario. The remaining 80% comes from general taxes which everyone pays for. So 80% of the Catholic board's money comes from people who "chose to fund the public system".

And.. here's the real killer: the decision process is irrelevant even to that other 20%, because the way the funding formula works, every school board is entitled to a certain amount of money from the province based on factors like enrollment, geography, and any money the school board makes from property taxes is automatically clawed out of that provincial funding. So if you change your school board support, the school board you withdrew funding for will just get more money from the province to compensate, and the one you just started paying will get less money.

[vid]

Money gets assigned to school boards through tax codes. What you declare at the polling station is simply which board's trustees you vote for, they don't mesh that with your property taxes. I think the taxes come with a form to change which code you have, but I also think most people don't pay that close attention to it since the rate is the same regardless of which board you fund and they all get topped up anyway.



In a city or neighbourhood where many people rent this is largely irrelevant. They might as well remove the property tax portion entirely and shift it all to provincial taxes since it's the province paying for education anyway.

[toaster]

The PDSB released a fact sheet about Religious accommodation today.

http://www.peelschools.org/aboutus/e...ey%20Facts.pdf

The fact sheet does a good job at addressing concerns from people with other beliefs and faiths. It doesn't, however, address the concerns from people from the atheist and agnostic communities. Being accommodating to groups and faiths which are, themselves, not accommodating of other groups (in particular, LGBTQ2S peoples) is difficult. Students should not be bringing in materials (Bible, Quaran) which identity other groups as sinful, less than, or unacceptable. Also found in the Human Rights Code of Ontario is the protection of people against discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. Thus, while it is true that the Ontario Humain Rights Code protects for religious accommodation, it also protects discrimination based on sexual orientation. The PDSB is making a conscious value-laden decision to choose to protect religious minorities OVER and ABOVE of those of LGBTQ2S communities. Peel's message to gay students "We are allowing your peers to bring in books (Bible or Quran) and pray to higher beings, which explicitly state you should be stoned to death, and think you are committing a sin above and beyond all others."

I understand much of the complaints against this are coming from the other side (people who are mad that they can't celebrate "Christmas"), and much of what is being said is hateful and unwarranted. My objection comes more from a pragmatic and progressive/tolerance perspective. Yes, people and worshipers of any and all faiths can be and are tolerant. It doesn't change the fact that the faith itself is not tolerant. Keep religion out of schools.

[1overcosc]

^ I agree. No religion in public schools. I don't care if its Christianity or Islam or Hinduism, or whatever, if it's a religion, it doesn't belong. So I'm against Muslim prayer rooms in schools and I'm also against nativity pageants in schools.

The sole exception I would make is for aboriginal spiritual practices, when taught in an educational setting or as part of indigenous programming.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The sole exception I would make is for aboriginal spiritual practices, when taught in an educational setting or as part of indigenous programming.

I don't even agree with those in public school settings. The interesting thing is that many aboriginal parents in my area are against them.

[vid]

Lots of aboriginal people in general don't like or participate in them. It's essentially their religion and they have "atheists" too.

But we have to make up for the whole "taking your land wiping out your people and profiting off of it to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars" thing somehow, right?