Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[alexjon]

Pave everything! Yeehaw!

[delts145]

Originally Posted by wrendog

That would be the only place for it to go. That is the least amount of homes. I remember them talking about this bypass as a kid. But yes, there is always a resistance against this. Main street Heber will die with any type of bypass.

I don't think there are any official links or any plans, but it has been talked about.

I guess we have to face the fact that Heber Valley is one of a handful of the most beautiful metro valleys on the continent. That means that it will continue to explode in population, now that it has been discovered by so many out-of-towners. You're right Wren, that probably is the only place it could go. I would hope that when they do finally finish that section through the valley that it will be more of a beautiful parkway, say like the Legacy. I also would think Main street will be okay. The Valley population is exploding so rapidly that Main Street should be able to wing itself from the passers- through and thrive on local traffic. Speaking of Main, Isn't that big Boyer Center going in on Main?

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[delts145]

SLC faring better than other airports
With passenger demand high, Delta delays cuts at SLC hub

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_9484226

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[RC14]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Ok so here are my ideas on regional rail systems, for instance Salt Lake City needs to collaborate with Boise, Denver and Las Vegas to develop a high speed rail system between those cities, (by high speed I mean similar to European and Japanese high speed trains). Boise would then collaborate with Portland and Denver with Albuquerque, etc. Once passengers are at these major cities they use more local transportation to get to smaller cities. Some one from Seattle needing to be in Ogden takes the high speed rail down to SLC and Front Runner up to Ogden.

The red lines are lines that need to be developed in the West to provide an additional option rather than air.

The orange lines simply show other lines running in just a general direction with no specific points. I now realize the line running NE from Boise would be impossible so just ignore that one.



The interstate highway system was a revolutionary and needed idea when it was proposed and implemented. High speed rail needs to be the interstate system of this century.

So far I have always been a Huge, skeptic to the effectiveness, or necessity of Regional Rail in the Western United States.

Granted, the high cost of fuel makes this option seem more and more attractive. From what I have heard rail sounds like a convenient, inexpencive way to move freight, and I think I support local mass transit in the form of rail. (aka light rail/Commuter rail)
However once the cost of gasoline gose back to a reasonable price, if it dose and I think it could, or we come up with a more efficient alternitive to gasoline, which is bound to happen eventualy. Then people will begin to look at rail as a pointless waste of tax money (if it becomes nationalized) It'll be slower then air travel, more expencive then driving, and a huge waste of money.

I am not opposed to a regional rail system if it was propsed, paid for, and opperated by a privet company, without the use of tax money. Then we would not be using public money to fund something that may or may not be successful, and will probubly at some point become outdated.

I think the fact that a privet company has not yet tried to build something like this suggests there is probubly not alot of demand for it. However, who knows, as I pointed out in the begining of this post, with current gas prices it could start to look more and more atractive and perhapse become profitable enough that some one will give it a try.

[i-215]

UDOT's West-Side Masterplan!

Including in the wish-list:

• SR-201 upgraded to 5 lanes each way
• Reversible lanes on 3100 South and 4700 South
• Expressway at 4100 South and 6200 South (like Bangerter)
• New Freeway at 9000 South
• Upgrade Bangerter Highway to Freeway Status
• New Magna expressway at 9200 West that becomes a new expressway along U-111

Most of these may be pipe-dreams because there isn't any money. But it's a start toward corridor preservation.

[wrendog]

^^^^^^^ Urbanboy does not approve.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by i-215

[*]Upgrade Bangerter Highway to Freeway Status

It's about time. Bangerter was a mistake and should of been a freeway from the start.

Originally Posted by i-215

[*]New Freeway at 9000 South

I don't see how that could happen.

[WASDEN]

Yeah I don't see how a 90th S. freeway is possible either. The price of land acquisition alone would be astronomical, not to mention the court battles over huge swaths of private property.

Originally Posted by i-215

Personally I think the Interstate System is the best thing to happen to this country.

Dude this is an idea of yours that has disturbed me since you posted it- but I guess for someone who has a picture of the west side belt as their moniker I shouldn't be surprised. I kind of feel like the Interstate System was the catalyst that laid waste to a great majority of America's inner cities, SLC included. Instead of working problems out, people simply left the cities to rot, paving over some of our most productive farm lands with sprawl and enslaving us to oil producing nations.

[PhxSprawler]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

It's about time. Bangerter was a mistake and should of been a freeway from the start.

I agree with you on this! The Bangerter highway is a horrible waste of fuel and not nearly as efficient as a freeway would have been.

Also, what a horrible idea to create Expressways on 41st and 62nd. There is no better way to divide the neighborhoods and further deteriorate Kearns, West Jordan, and West Valley.

I like the idea of reversible lanes (they debatably work well in Phoenix), but the county should invest in some sort of guard, even if it is cheap poles that can be raised and flattened depending on the time of day.

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by WASDEN

Dude this is an idea of yours that has disturbed me since you posted it- but I guess for someone who has a picture of the west side belt as their moniker I shouldn't be surprised. I kind of feel like the Interstate System was the catalyst that laid waste to a great majority of America's inner cities, SLC included. Instead of working problems out, people simply left the cities to rot, paving over some of our most productive farm lands with sprawl and enslaving us to oil producing nations.

Freedom is more important than the survival of others.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by WASDEN

Dude this is an idea of yours that has disturbed me since you posted it- but I guess for someone who has a picture of the west side belt as their moniker I shouldn't be surprised. I kind of feel like the Interstate System was the catalyst that laid waste to a great majority of America's inner cities, SLC included. Instead of working problems out, people simply left the cities to rot, paving over some of our most productive farm lands with sprawl and enslaving us to oil producing nations.

Wel, I think "disturbing" is a bit strong, but I appreciate your comments.

I think you're only viewing the negatives, without viewing the positives. While suburban sprawl has allowed sections of town to rot, generally these sections are occupied (exception in Detroit, Buffalo, etc...but those cities can be blamed on negative population growth). While these "rotting" areas aren't pretty, they do create a huge stock of affordable housing that is transportation advantageous to those of lower incomes. By that I mean those who can afford to travel least, live closest to the center of employment, while those who can afford to travel farther, live farther away. It seems much more fair to me than the model you'll see in South America and other places where the rich enjoy an inexpensive travel distance, while the poor have to figure out how to make their way in from the outskirts.

While there are some long-term sustainability questions regarding suburban sprawl, it has opened up a lot of inexpensive housing. I don't really approve of Eagle Mountain because it's unbalanced (all houses, no jobs, no retail), it has allowed for young families to afford homes they normally couldn't afford.

I'd argue a freeway-based city is more democratic (not in the political sense, but in the fairness sense) than one that is not. Take Los Angeles... poor or rich, your circumstances aren't much different in terms of land use. If you can afford a home you're on a small lot. If you're uber-rich, you're probably still on a relatively small lot (less than an acre).

Compare that with cities like Baltimore where the poor and middle classes live in tight quarters while the rich live on palatial estates just outside town. That's the kind of unfair world I fear we'd see more of, if freeways didn't open up that land for the use of all. It may not be the most eco-friendly, but I believe it's a big part of America's strong middle class. And it's more fair.

As for connecting cities, the Interstate System is superb. Imagine how many more people would've died on windy 2-lane roads with no grade separation! If you think Highway 6 is a death trap, imagine what Pacific Coast Highway would be like! It wouldn't be all pretty because it'd be jammed with trucks crawling up and down the coast.

But I won't deny there are negative aspects to the Interstate System. I just think it's a bit short-sighted to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say it's the worst thing that happened to the country.

[RFPCME]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I see it as a time factor combined with the cost of gas, not just the cost of gas. The high speed rails in Europe and Asia run at 124mph and faster, according to Wikipedia. SLC to Vegas on I-15 is 421 miles that would make the trip by rail just over 3 hrs. It is only 361 miles as the crow flies which would make the trip just under 3 hours. LA would be about a 5 1/2 hr train ride plus a few minutes to stop in Vegas. If I were headed to Vegas or LA for a weekend I would love a 3 or 5.5 hr train ride that was less money than a flight.

Not to mention Europe an Asia now use high speed rail for freight as well. One train engine puffing out exhaust to take freight from LA to SLC versus who know how many trucks running up I-15. Sure could reduce the amount of pollution in the air or at least limit the increase of semi truck pollution in the air. While Bio-diesel is a great fuel, with the newer truck emissions standards that have been put in place on new trucks, these trucks are unable to run on bio-diesel. While they will be burning less traditional fuel, they will be burning dirtier, than less efficient running on bio.

Future Mayor: I like your thinking. Personally, I'm a rail nut (as well as a nut case in general). My father, both of my grandfathers, and many uncles were railroaders, so I grew up on trains. I also had the good fortunate to live and work in Europe for several years, where I didn't own a car!

But there is a major problem with high-speed railways--the tracks. To convert existing rail lines to high-speed rail means entirely new rail beds and tracks. Existing tracks will not handle the high speeds safely. But new rail beds and tracks will still be a lot cheaper than freeways.

Ironically, high-speed rail lines probably make more sense in the West and in the East, even with our sparsely populated areas. Why? The necessary upgrades to the tracks and the additional infrastructure necessary to support a high-speed rail line (such as completely eliminating any road crossing) are probably not feasible in the East, especially along the Boston to Washington corridor, because of the expense involved eliminating all the road crossings, for example.

But think of it...the area between just south of Tooele and far into southern Nevada is a straight line, essentially flat until just before Caliente NV. With an appropriate rail bed, speeds of over 150 mph are extremely possible and sustainable. The same is essentially true between Vegas and San Bernadino. CA. With the exception of the small mountain pass between Tremonton and Snowville, UT, the same is true between Ogden and Boise and far into eastern Oregon. Of course, the line between SLC and Denver is anything but flat, so that probably wouldn't work.

I have had the chance to ride the Eurostar a couple of times between London and Paris. Flying along the French countryside at nearly 180 mph is quite a thrill! Downtown London to downtown Paris in 3 hours! Much faster than air travel, if you consider the getting-to-and-from airport times.

So if part of the revenue from state and Federal gasoline taxes were diverted from highway construction and into railroad construction, we might learn to like it very fast (pun intended).

[RC14]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

It's about time. Bangerter was a mistake and should of been a freeway from the start.

Amen!

[delts145]

Given the discussion above, I thought this was interesting. This is from a thread created recently over on the Transportation section of the SkyscraperPage Forum

Originally Posted by tonyo

AP

Levitating train from L.A. to Las Vegas gets boost

Jun 6 05:54 PM US/Eastern

WASHINGTON (AP) - Plans for a levitating train from Las Vegas to Disneyland can move forward under a transportation bill signed by President Bush on Friday that frees up $45 million for the futuristic project.

Derided by critics as pie in the sky, the train would use magnetic levitation technology to carry passengers from Disneyland to Las Vegas in well under two hours, traveling at speeds of up to 300 mph. It would be the first MagLev system in the U.S.

The money is the largest cash infusion in the project's nearly 20-year history. It will pay for environmental studies for the first leg of the project.

The money had been delayed by a drafting error in Congress' 2005 highway bill, which was corrected along with some other changes by the legislation signed Friday by Bush. The delay had allowed a competing and cheaper diesel-electric plan to emerge as an alternative, but with the money now freed up supporters hope to move forward with the MagLev plan.

The train is meant to ease traffic on increasingly clogged Interstate 15, the main route for the millions of Southern Californians who make the 250-plus-mile drive to Las Vegas each year. There is no train on the route—Amtrak's Desert Wind between Los Angeles and Las Vegas was canceled in 1997 because of low ridership.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., praised passage of the law, saying the MagLev project "will safely and efficiently move people between Southern California and Las Vegas."

http://www.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_9504620

[i-215]

Now, even I may ride the Levitrain. How nice it would be to drive to Vegas ... drop my car off (assuming some moron doesn't break into it while I'm gone) and sail into say ... San Bernardino Station and hop off.

[DENrising]

Hey everyone, not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but wanted to remind you that the MAX service, Utah's first BRT starts soon. It will go down 35th South in the WVC area and connect with TRAX. Does anyone have any comments on this, I think it's huge. If this is successful I think it will take off in other areas, like on 7th East, and perhaps 21st South. I'd like to see it in areas that are not currently served by rail to enhance the accessibility.

Since State Street is quite a major artery, seems like it would be natural to have MAX there as well. I think that would be a major enhancement.

Go to the UTA site, they have a banner on MAX and let us all know what you think about this, I think it's great.

[SLC Projects]

They say that the "Max" is like a "Trax on wheels" I might have to go check this out.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by SLCrising

Hey everyone, not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but wanted to remind you that the MAX service, Utah's first BRT starts soon. It will go down 35th South in the WVC area and connect with TRAX. Does anyone have any comments on this, I think it's huge. If this is successful I think it will take off in other areas, like on 7th East, and perhaps 21st South. I'd like to see it in areas that are not currently served by rail to enhance the accessibility.

Since State Street is quite a major artery, seems like it would be natural to have MAX there as well. I think that would be a major enhancement.

Go to the UTA site, they have a banner on MAX and let us all know what you think about this, I think it's great.

This is a huge step in the right direction SLCrising. The BRT system makes it so much more attractive for commuters. In L.A. people love them, particularly in a city situation with a lot of traffic signals. It's even a double whammy when you have this and the bus is also a clean CNG burner.

[delts145]

If any of you get the chance today or tomorrow, go over to the Transportation section in the Transportation section of the Skyscraperforum. Please leave a comment about how much your liking the new Front-Runner or TRAX, especially if you've taken a ride on them recently. A lot of traffic on that forum that doesn't otherwise see what we're doing here alontg the Wasatch.

Transit: UTA, U.S. counterparts report more riders

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...232863,00.html


Travelers move between trains on Friday in Salt Lake City. UTA said that from April '07 to April '08 ridership for the average weekday was up about 9 percent, divided among buses, light rail and van pools. (Mike Terrry, Deseret News)

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[delts145]

Airline may start treating passengers 'like freight'

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...232318,00.html



John Clark


American Airlines passenger checks in seven pieces of luggage at a counter. The airline will begin charging $15 for the first checked bag starting June 15. (Paul Sakuma, Associated Press)

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