[Saint John] Fundy Quay (South Market Wharf) | 19-6s | 70m-26m | U/C

[WharfRat]

So with prep work on the coast guard site started and buildings coming down based on a Liberal promise of funding, where do the PC's stand on this?? Considering they may be in charge soon..or not, who knows?

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by WharfRat

So with prep work on the coast guard site started and buildings coming down based on a Liberal promise of funding, where do the PC's stand on this?? Considering they may be in charge soon..or not, who knows?

Saint John is painted blue.. with the exception of the riding that the museum is slated to go in. Wouldn't be surprised to see Higgs say no, just because.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Higgs admitted that he has looked into the finances, so essentially say there's no comment. I don't see him cancelling the project, maybe downgrading the amount of money being invested.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

Saint John is painted blue.. with the exception of the riding that the museum is slated to go in. Wouldn't be surprised to see Higgs say no, just because.

Given how blue the map of NB is in the SJ area, I think the chances of him cancelling the museum would be highly remote.

On the other hand, we're in the planning stages of a $36M expansion to the Moncton Hospital. I would say that's more at risk.

Of course, the Moncton Hospital is Anglophone, and three (mostly English speaking) Moncton ridings did vote PC. If Higgs were seen as petty by cancelling the (English) hospital project, he could be made to pay for his decision, and Moncton ridings are probably easier to win or lose on a whim than SJ ridings. He needs us.

[UptownJeff]

Knowing Blaine, pettiness or being vindictive is not part of his makeup. He will look at the financial side along with the human side and make a decision. I can't speak to the Moncton Hospital issues but with the museum, he is on record saying that he wants to wait and see what the Feds do before making any decisions.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Given how blue the map of NB is in the SJ area, I think the chances of him cancelling the museum would be highly remote.

On the other hand, we're in the planning stages of a $36M expansion to the Moncton Hospital. I would say that's more at risk.

Of course, the Moncton Hospital is Anglophone, and three (mostly English speaking) Moncton ridings did vote PC. If Higgs were seen as petty by cancelling the (English) hospital project, he could be made to pay for his decision, and Moncton ridings are probably easier to win or lose on a whim than SJ ridings. He needs us.

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

Knowing Blaine, pettiness or being vindictive is not part of his makeup. He will look at the financial side along with the human side and make a decision. I can't speak to the Moncton Hospital issues but with the museum, he is on record saying that he wants to wait and see what the Feds do before making any decisions.

Feds can't do anything until the Province does something

[Ammn_guy]

36m.. is peanuts compared to whats been put into Dumont the last 6-7 years.. roughtly 10 times that wasn it.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Given how blue the map of NB is in the SJ area, I think the chances of him cancelling the museum would be highly remote.

On the other hand, we're in the planning stages of a $36M expansion to the Moncton Hospital. I would say that's more at risk.

Of course, the Moncton Hospital is Anglophone, and three (mostly English speaking) Moncton ridings did vote PC. If Higgs were seen as petty by cancelling the (English) hospital project, he could be made to pay for his decision, and Moncton ridings are probably easier to win or lose on a whim than SJ ridings. He needs us.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ammn_guy

36m.. is peanuts compared to whats been put into Dumont the last 6-7 years.. roughtly 10 times that wasn it.

It's always a struggle for the Moncton Hospital to get the government's attention.

The GDH has a very strong and influential political lobby.

Anyway, wrong thread to be discussing this.

[Fischbob]

Interesting discussion in retrospect now that Higgs' axe has fallen on the Museum project, at least temporarily.

Meanwhile, Common Council has a motion before them to allocate funds to demolish the final Coast Guard building on the site next year for an estimated $1 million. (Source, item 13.3)

The staff report retained Turner Drake to consider 3 options for the building, including refurbishment and sell/lease, sell/lease "as-is", or demolish outright. The conclusion was that neither of the first two options were feasible. The cleared area is to be used as surface parking temporarily, with all revenues going into a reserve fund to defray the costs of demolition and other site work.

Turner Drake also developed an estimate of the site's market value (after being cleared and remediated, including seawall repairs) to be $3.5 million. Recall that the estimated cost of environmental remediation and seawall repairs for the site is $9.9 million - add the remaining demolition costs to that figure and we're looking at a nearly $11 million investment necessary to yield an asset of just $3.5 million. While I think the long term benefits of developing the site are still worth the upfront costs, I'm wondering if this sort of "sticker shock" may give some councillors cold feet, particularly in the face of the City's growing structural deficit.

[Fischbob]

MLA Gerry Lowe was quoted in today's paper stating that the Province should sell the lot that had been slated for the NBM back to the City, citing that there are no current plans to restart the axed Museum project. Can't say I blame him. While I'm pretty disappointed that a landmark of that magnitude was dangled in front of us only to be prematurely shut down, the bigger concern I have is for the collections, which have been left again to languish in highly unsuitable facilities on Douglas Avenue. A ticking time bomb as far as I'm concerned...

Meanwhile, the City has applied to the federal government to cost share a number of environmental resilience-related infrastructure projects, including repairs to the Coast Guard Site's seawall (quoted on page 134 of last week's Finance Committee agenda as being $8.17 million).

[Fischbob]

I know this was posted in the main SJ thread, but I thought I'd cc it here too:

Saint John agency in talks with developers about 'Fundy Quay': https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...wall-1.5137337

Key takeaways:
- Sounds like multiple responses to DevelopSJ's recent request for expressions of interest for the site.
- The parcel that had been subdivided for the NBM appears to be back in the scope of the request for expressions of interest.
- Public funding is being sought to help cost share the site's infrastructural upgrades (seawall, elevation of the site, and potentially underground parking similar to the setup at Market Square). Work on some of these components could begin within "12 to 18 months".
- Executive director of DevelopSJ "refuses to discuss timelines" for development of the site.

So looking like we'll be well into the 2020s before we're able to take in even phase 1 of this development.

Meanwhile the demolition permit has been issued for the final Coast Guard building and helicopter hangar on the site.

[thefishingnut]

Saint John in a perpetual budget crunch. The Province cancelling projects part way through construction. A federal election in the fall, does anyone see Higgs helping Trudeau line up an election promise project at the site to boost Liberal support? I can't see even the slightest forward progress on a funding agreement for the base infrastructure being likely for some time.

[Joe]

First steps

https://huddle.today/11-9-million-in...r-development/

[shacklebolt]

Good news.

I saw that Area506 is also moving to the Coast Guard site from Long Wharf. All the stories I've read have been pretty scarce on the details.

https://huddle.today/area-506-music-...e-this-summer/

[Joe]

Remaining Coastguard buildings tear down



Photo from Urban Plans for Saint John and Beyond

[Fischbob]

DevelopSJ has a brief update on the Coast Guard Site in their presentation to Council tomorrow. Pertinent slides below:







So we're about where we were when the last go at this project stalled, i.e. private sector partner secured but engaging in a lengthy process of due diligence - so don't put this one in the books yet.

What's promising is that this time around, there is movement on acquiring funding to address the key structural barriers to development of the site, such as seawall repair, environmental remediation and reducing the risk associated with coastal flooding/sea level rise.

Work is ongoing with identifying an "anchor use attraction" for the private portion of the development (read: casino?) and "anchor use opportunities" with the province (read: museum reboot?). While it's important for such a central site to have these anchoring uses of regional significance, I hope the ambition to create a functional mixed-use neighbourhood with a healthy amount of residential density isn't pushed too far to the wayside in the minds of the project team. Ideally these anchor attraction uses would be placed on the north side of the site, bordering Market Square and the Boardwalk to create a buffer between these very active (and noisy) entertainment uses and a more residential/mixed use-oriented sector on the south portion of the site.

[NB_ExistsToo]

As much as I would enjoy an Uptown casino, I think they do more harm than good, and would be all for the museum.

I personally, would rarely use the museum, but I also understand SJ is the oldest incorporated city in Canada, and there's a butt load of history here, so it's only appropriate to have something a celebrate/preserve our history.

[Fischbob]

DING DING DING DING DING

We have an update!!

DevelopSJ is presenting to Council tonight with a recommendation to go into an agreement with the selected developer, Fundy Quay Developments Inc. (part of the Elias Management Group of Companies).

I'm currently reading through and digesting the report, Powerpoint and draft agreement and will have more to say on it in a subsequent post.

[Fischbob]

Okay, so in a nutshell...

- The latest vision statement for the site:



- Fundy Quay Developments Inc. was selected as the successful proponent in June, one of two qualified respondents to the call for expressions of interest earlier this year.
- I believe the key individual here (correct me if I'm wrong) is Dr. David Elias, who is a partner in the holding company for City Hall and has completed the following developments as per the DevelopSJ presentation:



- Since that time, a great deal of due diligence efforts have been undertaken, including a site valuation, financial analysis, engineering analysis, economic impact/business case analysis, pro-forma analysis, etc.
- The key findings from some of the above efforts have been summarized as follows in the report:



- In addition, should this round of plans for an integrated mixed-use development fall through, a "Plan B" of subdividing the site for 6 smaller residential developments has been deemed viable.
- Straight from the DevelopSJ Board, here are the guiding principles for the agreement:



- And the agreement itself consists of two parts:
1. A 2-year Option Agreement as site preparation progresses.
2. A 25-year land lease-to-own agreement as the site is developed in phases.

I won't get into the nitty-gritty of the agreements as they're quite detailed, but generally speaking they try to balance the level of risk and incentivize all parties to move the file forward over the duration of the agreements.

It should be noted that the lands pursuant to this agreement appear to exclude the parcel that was sold to the Province for the now-dead Museum project. No word in these new documents on what the future holds for this key piece of land. EDIT: Reports from Connell Smith on Twitter that the developer is exploring options to incorporate the Provincial lands into the project.

I want to stress that this still isn't a done deal, and the developer has several "outs" should things not go as planned with third-party funding for environmental remediation work and the like. Stay tuned folks!

[ColSJ]

Council has unanimously voted to green light the agreement.