VIA Rail

[kool maudit]

Chicagoan weighs in on weird, airline-style boarding:

https://chi.streetsblog.org/2013/12/...rts-to-trains/

It has even reached the Economist:

https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2...mtrak-responds

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

VIA is a lost cause and should be dismantled.

Take it a step further and replace VIA with Canada.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Sure, but it's not really a service you can count on. Beyond the reliability issues, each train stops at different stations and takes a different amount of time to get to Ottawa. The trains don't run on a clockface schedule, nor on all days. It's not as if you can show up at Union station and expect to wait a maximum of 59 minutes to take a train to Ottawa that will take the same amount of time to reach your destination, give or take.

Arbitrary solution:
What they could do is have it that:
1) all trains that do not go though Ottawa leave at the top of the hour.
2) All express trains leave at 15 minutes past the hour
3) All trains that do not connect to Montreal leave at half past the hour
4) All express trains leave at 15 minutes to the hour.

You could still have all the service, but you now know that your train is easy to figure out. Each one may only run twice a day, but that would be 8 different services that are easy to differentiate.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Very true, an reliable VIA bus service must be coordinated with reliable VIA rail service which we currently donèt have. This is even more reason why rail outside CaléEdm and The Corridor should be stopped and transferred to buses.

The huge amounts we spend on maintaining infrastructure and rolling stock on non-productive routes can be spent on doubling track in The Corridor and Cal/Edm. This would mean millions of Canadians get a reliable transportation system {both rail & bus} that they don't have now.

The Canadian is a world famous tourist experience and those tourists who are coming for that experience are almost certainly spending more time in Canada spending money off the train as well. You cannot transfer that to buses. By cancelling the Canadian, you eliminate that tourist market entirely. We have already seen that buses are even less viable.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

maybe this fits in here

Alberta hyperloop isn't 'science fiction:' Company urges government to climb aboard

CEO says TransPod will submit updated proposal to province next week
Tony Seskus · CBC News · Posted: Nov 27, 2019


An illustration of what TransPod's hyperloop system might look like running beside a highway. ( Radio-Canada/TransPod Hyperloop)

The chief executive of Canadian hyperloop company, TransPod, believes he can have Albertans shuttling between Calgary and Edmonton — at speeds up to 1,000 kilometres an hour — in magnetic tubes by 2030.

That's provided the provincial government gets on board.

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-41Hc2bIcrtuTc

The Kenney government might get on board, seeing as how vapourloops are a means of stalling investments in actual transportation solutions to prolong the death of car culture

Hyperloop is a grift. Nothing more.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Chicagoan weighs in on weird, airline-style boarding:

https://chi.streetsblog.org/2013/12/...rts-to-trains/

It has even reached the Economist:

https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2...mtrak-responds

Honestly it completely boggles the mind why Via and Amtrak does this. I'm sure they could shave 10 minutes off my 2 hour train ride from London to Toronto if we were able to wait on the platform for the train. But really it's the whole system. It's the fact that someone is scanning every single ticket on the way to the platform as well.

But perhaps the greater problem is the mentality that no one is striving for excellent train service. It's just a given that we can be mediocre at delivering transportation and the public is ok with it.

How about we do what the UK has done and privatize rail? If the UK can have First Great Western (who run buses here), Virgin, Southwest Rail & 25 other companies run their service, why can't we have a few compete to run our service?

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

How about we do what the UK has done and privatize rail? If the UK can have First Great Western (who run buses here), Virgin, Southwest Rail & 25 other companies run their service, why can't we have a few compete to run our service?

GOD NO. Privatization has not been great for the UK Railways How Privatisation Fails: Railways

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

GOD NO. Privatization has not been great for the UK Railways How Privatisation Fails: Railways

I took the train every day over there. I went far and wide and could rely on the service to get anywhere I wanted. Our current system is not only failing, it is a failure. I am certainly not hell bent on privatization but much better rail service in general. What private companies can do is bring $ and investment to the table and they can be held accountable to passengers and a National Rail service where they have to meet standards. I'd rather have this than what we currently have.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I took the train every day over there. I went far and wide and could rely on the service to get anywhere I wanted. Our current system is not only failing, it is a failure. I am certainly not hell bent on privatization but much better rail service in general. What private companies can do is bring $ and investment to the table and they can be held accountable to passengers and a National Rail service where they have to meet standards. I'd rather have this than what we currently have.

In the UK, privatization resulted in more expensive trains for the public, and eventually more taxpayer subsidies than when it was nationalized.

But yes, we do need much better rail service. This requires a monumental paradigm shift, and a commitment from the federal government to start prioritizing rail investment over private cars, which I don't see happening any time soon.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

In the UK, privatization resulted in more expensive trains for the public, and eventually more taxpayer subsidies than when it was nationalized.

But yes, we do need much better rail service. This requires a monumental paradigm shift, and a commitment from the federal government to start prioritizing rail investment over private cars, which I don't see happening any time soon.

I don’t think this government will only be virtual-signalling when it comes to climate change. The CPC was defeated on this count, so this minority government would have to take it seriously.

As for privatization resulting in higher fare and more subsidies, let’s see what comes out of MTL’s REM.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Honestly it completely boggles the mind why Via and Amtrak does this. I'm sure they could shave 10 minutes off my 2 hour train ride from London to Toronto if we were able to wait on the platform for the train. But really it's the whole system. It's the fact that someone is scanning every single ticket on the way to the platform as well.

But perhaps the greater problem is the mentality that no one is striving for excellent train service. It's just a given that we can be mediocre at delivering transportation and the public is ok with it.

How about we do what the UK has done and privatize rail? If the UK can have First Great Western (who run buses here), Virgin, Southwest Rail & 25 other companies run their service, why can't we have a few compete to run our service?

The railway infrastructure in the UK is not privatized though, it is almost entirely owned, maintained and regulated by Network Rail. That's a massive difference and clearly shows the benefits of government ownership of railways. Railways are natural monopolies, so pure free markets are impossible, you either highly regulate the operators (as in the UK), or have the government just run the services, and there is not that much difference in the end.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

In the UK, privatization resulted in more expensive trains for the public, and eventually more taxpayer subsidies than when it was nationalized.

This is a simplification. The railways had been run into the ground through lack of spending pre privatization, so once they were privatized (also coinciding with a change in government), spending was increased to start improving quality. There was also a number of deadly rail crashes which eventually caused political pressure to actually fix it, so the taps were turned on and the railways have been playing catchup since. Ridership is up massively post privatization.

In the end the real problem was lack of money, not whether the operators were in public or private hands though. Having the track ownership in private hands (Railtrack), was definitely bad though, and they fixed that by bringing back in house.

[J81]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

That's the problem. Most Canadian passenger trains in the corridor don't even need 4,000 hp.

We’re talking Freight trains are we not. And for the record HP equals speed. You cant get to 100mph without HP. The more you have the quicker you get up to speed.

[J81]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Sure, but it's not really a service you can count on. Beyond the reliability issues, each train stops at different stations and takes a different amount of time to get to Ottawa. The trains don't run on a clockface schedule, nor on all days. It's not as if you can show up at Union station and expect to wait a maximum of 59 minutes to take a train to Ottawa that will take the same amount of time to reach your destination, give or take.

Sure you can. How many times have you taken the train from Toronto to Ottawa? Id venture a guess and say never. There are reasons not all trains stop at all stops. Morning trains into Union and evening trains out tend to stop everywhere to facilitate commuting to work from places as far as Kingston. Others during midday tend to be express trains and usually only stop at Oshawa and Kingston. Every single Ottawa train has a run time between 4 and 4.5 hrs. Are you really going to notice 30mins difference? The trains also do run at the same time every single day with the exception of a few trains that dont run on weekends. So yes you can show up at Union and expect to catch a train to Ottawa within the next 60-80 minutes.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by J81

Sure you can. How many times have you taken the train from Toronto to Ottawa? Id venture a guess and say never. There are reasons not all trains stop at all stops. Morning trains into Union and evening trains out tend to stop everywhere to facilitate commuting to work from places as far as Kingston. Others during midday tend to be express trains and usually only stop at Oshawa and Kingston. Every single Ottawa train has a run time between 4 and 4.5 hrs. Are you really going to notice 30mins difference? The trains also do run at the same time every single day with the exception of a few trains that dont run on weekends. So yes you can show up at Union and expect to catch a train to Ottawa within the next 60-80 minutes.

Sometimes a good poster will write something you disagree with, and you will challenge them with your opinion, citing examples. Other times somebody just posts something factually wrong that you can just refute with...facts.

Here’s VIA’s Toronto to Ottawa schedule

Until 10:40 the trains run only every 2 hours. Only one train, the 12:20 one, stops only at Oshawa and Kingston before running express to Ottawa; 3 out of the 11 trains take longer than 4.5 hours.

And, for the record, yes I have taken VIA from Toronto to Ottawa as recently as last year, and, yes, I would notice a difference of 30 minutes in travel time. Most HSR projects around the world are multi billion dollar investments that are sold to the public for doing exactly that: shaving half an hour of current travel times.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Arbitrary solution:
What they could do is have it that:
1) all trains that do not go though Ottawa leave at the top of the hour.
2) All express trains leave at 15 minutes past the hour
3) All trains that do not connect to Montreal leave at half past the hour
4) All express trains leave at 15 minutes to the hour.

You could still have all the service, but you now know that your train is easy to figure out. Each one may only run twice a day, but that would be 8 different services that are easy to differentiate.

Well that's just the point, Via can't do that. It has attempted to make its trains leave at regular intervals but freight traffic prevents what you're suggesting. The government has shown consistently over the decades that it's unwilling to make the changes needed to allow for this on the existing tracks. So Via made the pragmatic decision to plan its own route.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Well that's just the point, Via can't do that. It has attempted to make its trains leave at regular intervals but freight traffic prevents what you're suggesting. The government has shown consistently over the decades that it's unwilling to make the changes needed to allow for this on the existing tracks. So Via made the pragmatic decision to plan its own route.

I know, but I am also showing that if the Federal Government had the balls to change things, Via could as well.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...21060/page-417 #6248

Sure why not?

[J81]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Sometimes a good poster will write something you disagree with, and you will challenge them with your opinion, citing examples. Other times somebody just posts something factually wrong that you can just refute with...facts.

Here’s VIA’s Toronto to Ottawa schedule

Until 10:40 the trains run only every 2 hours. Only one train, the 12:20 one, stops only at Oshawa and Kingston before running express to Ottawa; 3 out of the 11 trains take longer than 4.5 hours.

And, for the record, yes I have taken VIA from Toronto to Ottawa as recently as last year, and, yes, I would notice a difference of 30 minutes in travel time. Most HSR projects around the world are multi billion dollar investments that are sold to the public for doing exactly that: shaving half an hour of current travel times.

You are arguing with someone that actually runs the schedules. And you basically confirmed exactly what i have said in previous posts. So thank you for saving me from having to post my work schedule! Taking the train once a year doesnt exactly make you an expert on the service. Take it more often and you might gain a more educated view and your opinions may hold a little more weight.

2 of the 3 trains that take longer then 4.5hrs are 50 and 52 which are Jay’d with 60 and 62. Since 50/60 as well as 52/62 run as a single train to Brockville it takes a bit longer as the trains have to be separated at Brockville before the continue to Ottawa and Montreal respectively. Those trains depart at 6:40 and 8:40. The other train that takes over 4.5 hrs is 48 which is the last train of the day and stops everywhere. So in the morning trains depart every 2 hours until 42 departs at 12:20. Then trains depart hourly after that until 48 departs at 18:40. Those are only Ottawa trains. Stick 4 more Montreal trains in amongst those Ottawa trains plus the Kingston train which is the last Eastbound train of the day at 19:40 and you start to understand just how frequent Via trains depart Union. With GO trains departing the lakeshore lines every 15 minutes all day on weekdays now there isnt much room to add anything out of Union station.

Sometimes someone posts something they know nothing about and claim it as fact and others who actually do know what theyre talking about post actual facts!

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by J81

You are arguing with someone that actually runs the schedules. And you basically confirmed exactly what i have said in previous posts. So thank you for saving me from having to post my work schedule! Taking the train once a year doesnt exactly make you an expert on the service. Take it more often and you might gain a more educated view and your opinions may hold a little more weight.

2 of the 3 trains that take longer then 4.5hrs are 50 and 52 which are Jay’d with 60 and 62. Since 50/60 as well as 52/62 run as a single train to Brockville it takes a bit longer as the trains have to be separated at Brockville before the continue to Ottawa and Montreal respectively. Those trains depart at 6:40 and 8:40. The other train that takes over 4.5 hrs is 48 which is the last train of the day and stops everywhere. So in the morning trains depart every 2 hours until 42 departs at 12:20. Then trains depart hourly after that until 48 departs at 18:40. Those are only Ottawa trains. Stick 4 more Montreal trains in amongst those Ottawa trains plus the Kingston train which is the last Eastbound train of the day at 19:40 and you start to understand just how frequent Via trains depart Union. With GO trains departing the lakeshore lines every 15 minutes all day on weekdays now there isnt much room to add anything out of Union station.

Sometimes someone posts something they know nothing about and claim it as fact and others who actually do know what theyre talking about post actual facts!

So, you work for VIA, eh? Based on your arrogance and combativeness on this thread - not just to me, but to others - I'm getting a good glimpse into your company's culture, and it shows in your product.

It doesn't matter that you think trains depart Union station very frequently. First of all, they don't. Second of all, if you're traveling to Ottawa, you don't care how many trains leave Union Station. You care how many trains leave Union station for Ottawa. Right now, there are 2 that leave before noon. There is nothing that gets you into Ottawa in time to have a full day of productivity. I work two blocks from Union Station, and everyone I work with who travels to Montreal or Ottawa flies. If VIA can't take the hint, the last 15 years have seen the advent of Toronto City Centre Airport, the Union Pearson Express, and - for people with less money - frequent Megabus departures to Montreal. VIA is leaving all these passengers on the table.

You don't have to write a paragraph-long screed to convince me that uncoupling a train in Brockville lengthens the travel time beyond 4.5 hours. To the traveling public, all they know is they're wasting time on some siding for ten minutes.

Let me be blunt: VIA runs dated, unreliable trains in a market with a huge latent demand for better intercity rail service. VIA can blame uncooperative freight operators all they want. The truth is, where there's a will, there's a way. There are countless stories of pariah organizations that turned themselves around and got the political and financial capital to do what they wanted to do.

We live in a country where an increasing portion of the country's elite lives and works downtown, where there are huge institutional investors, and where there are short line operators and abandoned rail rights of way that are almost just lying around waiting for offers. Get someone who can put two and two together.

PS: Run something useful in Western Canada and the Maritimes. Even a bus. You're wasting a lot of political goodwill in our fractured federation by concentrating all your chips in Southern Ontario and Quebec.