Our new Roaring 20s?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

The Chinese diaspora is a much bigger threat than the CCP.

I can't imagine those who are more than one generation removed from mainland China have any sort of attachment.

They might share a language, but comparing the relative differences in societies, it would be hard to find a common bond between contemporary Canada and Xi's China. Especially for children raised in Canada. The kids of Russian parents might have spoken Russian, but would find the Soviet Union a strange and alienating place. Some might have a idealized fondness, but I can't imagine it would be more than a few of them.

Writ large, I am not worried about Manchurian Candidate-style infiltration. Given the PRC's demographics, I expect that emigration from the country will decline into the 21st century.

[MolsonExport]

The Chinese diaspora...internment camps. Are you insinuating that it was ok to round up and incarcerate Japanese-Canadians and Japanese-Americans during WW2? That we should explore doing this with members of the Chinese diaspora?

Man, what the hell sort of appalling argument are you putting forth here?

This line of thinking represents the epitome of racism. Racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

The Chinese diaspora is a much bigger threat than the CCP.

We have no way of screening party loyalist from the people wanting good old freedoms.

People want to get all upset by Japanese internment camps, but we still have no answer to the problem.

The thing is as the good come with the bad, the good start becoming afraid of the bad that came with them.

It's a big big problem.

First of all, the most clear evidence that the Japanese internment was pure racism is they only interred 1% of Japanese Americans living in Hawaii, despite that being the only place Japan might possibly be able to invade, at least before Midway.

Second, why would China send its spies as permanent immigrants when they can send them as tourists, business people, etc.?

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

First of all, the most clear evidence that the Japanese internment was pure racism is they only interred 1% of Japanese Americans living in Hawaii, despite that being the only place Japan might possibly be able to invade, at least before Midway.

Second, why would China send its spies as permanent immigrants when they can send them as tourists, business people, etc.?

I agree the interment camp of the past served no useful purpose and should not be repeated. They were a sad part of our history.

I also don't think there is a lot of loyalty to the government of China among the Chinese-Canadian population.

However, due to family ties we are likely to have more trade with China during a cold war period than existed in the USSR period.

The recent problems with China on vaccines I suspect has soured any interest in scientific co-operation. The recent case of the Michaels has soured much of the diplomatic interest in working with China.

[ssiguy]

I can certainly see a new cold war with China and it is already well underway. As long as Xi stays in power {and he has proclaimed himself leader for life}, there will be a marked isolation of China.

Remember there are really 2 different Chinas.........the Hong Kong/Taiwanese who are very democratically oriented and believe strongly in human rights. Then there are the Mainlanders who generally don't. They have absolutely nothing in common except superficial culture ties. You can clearly see this in Vancouver where the 2 groups have nothing to do with each other and there is a real tension between them.

Those from HK/Taiwan tend to meld into the wider society at large and by the second generation are completely 'Canadianized' while this is not the case with Mainlanders who tend to isolate themselves and share little in common with general Canadian values and more importantly don't want to.

There is very much a similar play in the 2020s coming up as there was in the 1920s in terms of the 'Red Scare' except now the colour has changed to yellow. Nations across the planet are de-investing in China and this will continue.

China has quickly become the world's newest four letter word.

[kool maudit]

China was China when Anglo-American capital was hyping it, too. It was the same place when the barons of outsourcing were crowing about THE CHINESE FUTURE in their house rags -- Time, Foreign Policy, The Economist. Now they're upset because, surprise of surprises, it decided to be a superpower rather than Super GerMexico.

Hubris, nemesis.

The Han ruled from Chang'An when London was Londonium.

I'm not saying, you know, go China, Chinese hegemony FTW, whatever. But the Anglo-Americans have tripped over their dicks again, and I'm inclined to laugh given everything.

[kool maudit]

That said, it would be better for Canada were we not deciding where to pay our tribute. But thats an old problem for the Hudson's Bay Company.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

The Chinese diaspora is a much bigger threat than the CCP.

We have no way of screening party loyalist from the people wanting good old freedoms.

People want to get all upset by Japanese internment camps, but we still have no answer to the problem.

The thing is as the good come with the bad, the good start becoming afraid of the bad that came with them.

It's a big big problem.

Calling you an incel is a disservice to the sexually frustrated. This has nothing to do with you being autistic. You are a terrible person. Fuck you.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I can certainly see a new cold war with China and it is already well underway. As long as Xi stays in power {and he has proclaimed himself leader for life}, there will be a marked isolation of China.

Remember there are really 2 different Chinas.........the Hong Kong/Taiwanese who are very democratically oriented and believe strongly in human rights. Then there are the Mainlanders who generally don't. They have absolutely nothing in common except superficial culture ties. You can clearly see this in Vancouver where the 2 groups have nothing to do with each other and there is a real tension between them.

Those from HK/Taiwan tend to meld into the wider society at large and by the second generation are completely 'Canadianized' while this is not the case with Mainlanders who tend to isolate themselves and share little in common with general Canadian values and more importantly don't want to.

There is very much a similar play in the 2020s coming up as there was in the 1920s in terms of the 'Red Scare' except now the colour has changed to yellow. Nations across the planet are de-investing in China and this will continue.

China has quickly become the world's newest four letter word.

We aren't even in a trade war with China. This is absolutely ludicrous. You China hawks need to take a deep breath and think about what you're saying.

[casper]

Originally Posted by biguc

We aren't even in a trade war with China. This is absolutely ludicrous. You China hawks need to take a deep breath and think about what you're saying.

Canada is not in a trade war with China but the US is. Trump may have played up the optics as a way of having an evil empire to beat in his campaign. However, he had broad support on this file and Biden is not going to be backing down on it. The relationship between those two countries will get worse not better.

Canada is in stuck between the two and it also has its own diplomatic issues.

The issue with the Chinese tech executive picked up while just passing through the Vancouver airport on her way to Mexico and just by chance having two large estates in Vancouver that her family owns and she could live in while under house arrest waiting on extradition speaks volumes as to how Canada and China business interested in inter-dependent.

The fact we have two Canadian held in China as ransom for her release also speaks volume as to how China views our democratic principles and judicial institutions.

We are going to try to play the middle ground on this the way we did with Cuba. However I don't think the US or China is going to be overly impressed.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I can certainly see a new cold war with China and it is already well underway. As long as Xi stays in power {and he has proclaimed himself leader for life}, there will be a marked isolation of China.

Remember there are really 2 different Chinas.........the Hong Kong/Taiwanese who are very democratically oriented and believe strongly in human rights. Then there are the Mainlanders who generally don't. They have absolutely nothing in common except superficial culture ties. You can clearly see this in Vancouver where the 2 groups have nothing to do with each other and there is a real tension between them.

Those from HK/Taiwan tend to meld into the wider society at large and by the second generation are completely 'Canadianized' while this is not the case with Mainlanders who tend to isolate themselves and share little in common with general Canadian values and more importantly don't want to.

There is very much a similar play in the 2020s coming up as there was in the 1920s in terms of the 'Red Scare' except now the colour has changed to yellow. Nations across the planet are de-investing in China and this will continue.

China has quickly become the world's newest four letter word.

Maybe that is a BC thing where enclaves are common. In Ontario the second generation is pretty indistinguishable from everyone else. Schools, pop culture and cute girls/boys are usually a stronger force than the little red book.

[Acajack]

In a diverse country like Canada there is fertile ground for any country to send spies or agents of destabilisation incognito as immigrants. This works for Russia as well as it does for China. Or the Vatican.

But the idea that any major share of Chinese-Canadians have a strong loyalty to the Chinese state and its ambitions sounds totally absurd.

[acottawa]

Back on topic, some crazy bad demographic numbers have been coming out in the last two weeks. Russia lost a half a million people, US lost a whole year of life expectancy. Births in China fell by a third.

This shit ain’t roaring.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In a diverse country like Canada there is fertile ground for any country to send spies or agents of destabilisation incognito as immigrants. This works for Russia as well as it does for China. Or the Vatican.

Or the United States or United Kingdom, honestly.

[kool maudit]

"Soft power" is essentially talk, or more generously ideas, so countries that emphasize this approach tend to be full of foundations, strategists, advisory boards, all the rest.

Walked past the Atlantic Council building in Gamla Stan the other day, close to the Riksdag.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

"Soft power" is essentially talk, or more generously ideas, so countries that emphasize this approach tend to be full of foundations, strategists, advisory boards, all the rest.

Walked past the Atlantic Council building in Gamla Stan the other day, close to the Riksdag.

But it is also culture, lifestyle, admiration and emulation, which totalitarian regimes struggle to achieve.

It’s the cafe in front of the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow (the main cathedral where State functions occur) playing Frosty the Snowman (the 1950 version) on its outdoor speaker.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Or the United States or United Kingdom, honestly.

They were too obvious that I did not even mention them!

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by scryer

NGL, the new roaring 20's really feel like the 30's depression era all over again so far .

Indeed. The coming years will reflect Weimar Germany not USA of the 20s. I admire peoples optimism but I feel that optimism is a hindrance at this point more than anything. Telling people to keep their chin up and "things will get better" only creates more apathy and continues this trajectory off the cliff for good. Anything and everything needs to be questioned and scrutinized heavily. Unfortunately, this past year or so has changed my opinions of Canadians for the worse. We are some of the most mentally enslaved and gullible people on planet earth. Nothing will change until the population starts missing meals. Until then, it's pretty much over for my generation and ones behind us.

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

I feel like this is a statement that may end up aging like milk.

I'd argue because so many people have been derailed that it's gonna go even further than expected. A whole lot of people are giving up on their dreams/having kids etc thanks to covid.

I wouldn't be shocked to see people going to the extreme in the next few years. That feel of "what can" or "what might" happen drags a society forward, hoping for the best. Nowadays it seems obvious than for most people no year is gonna be better than 2022-2023.


I'm at that age where me and my wife are making some real decisions. And if we were any less family orientated we probably wouldn't be thinking about having kids.

I suspect we're gonna see a real drop in the birth rate that won't ever recover.

I think because you guys are at the other side of 30, it's easier to forget how many people have been completely derailed by this.

My generation was super late in "adulting" and this is just the straw that broke the camels back.

Me and my wife have no debt, no interest in owning a car condo etc, and we are so not the norm among millenials.

Family to use is a priority and we are wavering, can't imagine how the rest of my less conservative peers think of it all.

I've all but packed it in at this point. There is no getting out of this without a complete collapse. The concept of 'boiling the frog' has been the mantra here for the past 30-40 years and it's worked remarkably. How fast things have accelerated I would have thought people would have changed their tune but the programming is too strong.

My biggest anger is how mediocre Canada has become and it rewards mediocrity above all else. There is almost zero incentive to push on, to innovate. Unfortunately, there isn't anywhere to 'flee' to. Every other western country is just as fucked. Feels bad, man.

Originally Posted by acottawa

Back on topic, some crazy bad demographic numbers have been coming out in the last two weeks. Russia lost a half a million people, US lost a whole year of life expectancy. Births in China fell by a third.

This shit ain’t roaring.

It's over, tbh.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by acottawa

First of all, the most clear evidence that the Japanese internment was pure racism is they only interred 1% of Japanese Americans living in Hawaii, despite that being the only place Japan might possibly be able to invade, at least before Midway.

Always an amusing typo, that. Actually they were merely interned (alive), not interred.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Back on topic, some crazy bad demographic numbers have been coming out in the last two weeks. Russia lost a half a million people, US lost a whole year of life expectancy. Births in China fell by a third.

This shit ain’t roaring.

"Roaring" and "Environmentally sustainable" are mutually exclusive. It seemed inevitable to me that humanity would eventually enter a somewhat permanent period of basically nonexistent y-o-y economic growth and that that would become the new normal.

Not sure yet if Covid is just a hiccup on the way there, though.