Report: Toronto one of four cities to get NHL expansion team

[Xing]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Las Vegas Craps?

I think Hartford Whalers sounds better.

They don't even have a team yet , and we're already hating... Lol!

[hudkina]

I think the NHL would do okay if the teams are in the right area. For the most part, expansion into the south has failed, so I think relocating teams from Florida, Arizona, etc. would probably be better in the long run. I don't think it would be terrible to see a couple expansion teams bringing the total to 32, like the NFL, particularly in a couple more Canadian cities where even smaller markets will likely have bigger fanbases than larger sunbelt markets. Canada could easily support 12 teams, with 20 teams in the U.S. mostly in the northern cities.

[pdxtex]

las vegas can suck a fat one. hockey does not belong in the desert. put a team in saskatoon, bring one to portland, oregon! seattle probably deserves it more though. any place but $%^& las vegas.

[M II A II R II K]

Maybe the newest Toronto team will win the Stanley Cup soon, and then the Leafs can feel like even more of a horse's ass.

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I always found it odd that Cleveland never got a team but now that Columbus has one, I don't think they ever will.


Toronto could support another team financially but I think the city is just too tied to The Leafs. One may survive in LV but only due to tourist, a bit risky.

Quebec would do well and I think Seattle would as well, I think some of the suffering southern teams like Florida, Anaheim, and Phoenix should just call it quits. They were never really embraced by the cities anyhow. I think SLC would do well and it definitely has a real winter and is a winter sports mecca with skiing and playing host to the Winter Olympics. I also think Indianapolis, and Milwaikee, could make a go of it and possibly Kansas City.

I do not think the league needs more teams but rather a shifting of locations. Florida, Phoenix, and Anaheim could be moved to other locals and no one would even notice. The Islanders are also struggling.

Toronto could maybe support another team but I think other cities, especially Seattle and Quebec should be at the top of the list and I definitely do not agree with more total number of teams in the league. Bettmen has never cared about the sport and sees it as strictly another business like Starbucks or IBM. The quality of the game is irrelevant to him.

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Cleveland had a team (the Barons, IIRC) for a few seasons back in the 1970s, but I don't believe another Ohio city would be able to support an NHL team. Columbus is barely able to support the Blue Jackets. I'm a fan, but I live on the opposite end of the country.

This is actually really interesting stuff. Cleveland should have been admitted to the league in the 50s but the NHL owners were a really nit picky bunch and didn't want anybody else getting a piece of their pie. Cleveland should be right up there with Chicago and Detroit, but it wasn't meant to be. Eventually the Barons did make it to the NHL after the Oakland Seals (California Golden Seals) moved there in the 1970s. Cleveland actually ended up "merging" with the Minnesota North Stars. In the early 90s the Barons were techinally unmerged from the Minnesota and moved to San Jose, which is why the Sharks ended up with a bunch of North Stars in their first year.

Cincinatti was one of the 6 remaining teams from the WHA when that league merged with the NHL in 1979. The NHL admitted Edmonton, Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford but paid Cincinatti and Birmingham $1.5 million to cease operations. Discussion took place in 1976 to admit Cincinatti and Houston to the NHL along with EDM, WPG, QUE, and HFD.

Mark Messier actually started out with Cincinatti but became eligible to be drafted in 1979 after the team folded and the Oilers snagged him in round 3.

Among the smartest decisions of the Bettman era was expansion to Columbus. It's a large northern city, new arena, no professional sports presence, and a solid economy based around a university. I think Cincinatti could have worked, and maybe still could, because of the absence of an NBA team and natural rivalry with Columbus.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Actually Columbus and Nashville, two relatively newer teams, have very high attendance rates nearing capacity. It is because of the reason just mentioned above...........they don't have any other sports teams so the cities have embraced them 100%.

Nashville has an NFL team, the Tennessee Titans. They are also very well supported.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Nashville has an NFL team, the Tennessee Titans. They are also very well supported.

Could Atlanta support an NHL team?

[pdxtex]

atlanta already had a team and it went to calgary back in the 80's. sports expanison as far i understand is tied to disposable income as a primary variable. just guessing, id probably say from a financial standpoint maybe, from a fan standpoint, id say probably not. 60 percent of the atlanta population is either black, hispanic or asian, not the traditional fan base of nhl, white people from cold places....major league soccer, which will start in atlanta next year is probably a better fit.

[ColDayMan]

Cincinnati, no. Cleveland, no. I'm rooting for Milwaukee!

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

atlanta already had a team and it went to calgary back in the 80's.

atlanta was also given a second NHL team (the thrashers) during the bettman sunbelt expansion era in the late '90s, but they only lasted in atlanta for a decade or so before moving to winnipeg 3 years ago to become the reborn jets.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

atlanta also given a second NHL team during the bettman sunbelt expansion era, but they moved to winnipeg 3 years ago to become the reborn jets.

oh yeah, the thrashers. i forget about them. yeah, so two teams have come and gone. doesn't bode well in my book.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

This is actually really interesting stuff. Cleveland should have been admitted to the league in the 50s but the NHL owners were a really nit picky bunch and didn't want anybody else getting a piece of their pie. Cleveland should be right up there with Chicago and Detroit, but it wasn't meant to be. Eventually the Barons did make it to the NHL after the Oakland Seals (California Golden Seals) moved there in the 1970s. Cleveland actually ended up "merging" with the Minnesota North Stars. In the early 90s the Barons were techinally unmerged from the Minnesota and moved to San Jose, which is why the Sharks ended up with a bunch of North Stars in their first year.

Cincinatti was one of the 6 remaining teams from the WHA when that league merged with the NHL in 1979. The NHL admitted Edmonton, Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford but paid Cincinatti and Birmingham $1.5 million to cease operations. Discussion took place in 1976 to admit Cincinatti and Houston to the NHL along with EDM, WPG, QUE, and HFD.

Mark Messier actually started out with Cincinatti but became eligible to be drafted in 1979 after the team folded and the Oilers snagged him in round 3.

Among the smartest decisions of the Bettman era was expansion to Columbus. It's a large northern city, new arena, no professional sports presence, and a solid economy based around a university. I think Cincinatti could have worked, and maybe still could, because of the absence of an NBA team and natural rivalry with Columbus.

and bringing the cleveland story up to date it gets just as interesting. the nhl did not come cleveland's way in the last expansion because the gunds owned the gund arena in cleveland and the san jose sharks. however, there was nhl hockey in cleveland after the barons. the pitts penguins played some home games at the old coliseum in the 1980s as they were owned by youngstown mall developer/gangster ed debartolo. nowadays with the columbus team cleveland is equidistant from 4 nhl teams, detroit, columbus, pittsburgh & buffalo, which will probably leave it shut out unless a really insistent wealthy owner steps up someday. however, minor league hockey remains a constant and of course the cleveland area has always been rather famous for its high school hockey.

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

oh yeah, the thrashers. i forget about them. yeah, so two teams have come and gone. doesn't bode well in my book.

This is the same way people in Atlanta felt about them. And the Flames probably.

[Quixote]

Don't forget that Hamilton also has the Sabres playing just an hour away. London might be a better option.

What about Halifax?

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

This is the same way people in Atlanta felt about them. And the Flames probably.

Not really, the Thrashers had a lot of support. The management sucked, BAD.

And this is a hockey town, believe it or not. The Gwinnett Gladiators of the ECHL play here in a 13,000 seat arena in the Northeast suburbs, and have rabid fans.

http://www.gwinnettgladiators.com/

There are several professional ice rinks here, and a couple of Northside High Schools have hockey teams. People need to remember that there are hundreds of thousands of transplants from the North here.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Don't forget that Hamilton also has the Sabres playing just an hour away. London might be a better option.

What about Halifax?

with an urban area population of only ~400,000, halifax is probably still a touch too small for a major league sports franchise.

for a US comparison, madison, WI has an urban area population ~400,000 as well.

now, i know that people in canada are especially hockey-crazed, but halifax still seems a bit too small to me.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by isaidso

'Toronto' might just mean the Golden Horseshoe. It could very well mean a Hamilton team. I'd much rather see Hamilton get a team than see Toronto get a 2nd team. Hamilton is as big as Winnipeg and Quebec City and likely needs this team more than they do. It will help Hamilton fight that perception that they're just a bedroom community of Toronto. Hamilton has always been a big independent city just like Milwaukee or Baltimore.

Good point. I agree.

But the new expansion team will probably end up in Markham (the city is already building an NHL capacity arena) or Vaughan Corporate Center.

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

with an urban area population of only ~400,000, halifax is probably still a touch too small for a major league sports franchise.

for a US comparison, madison, WI has an urban area population ~400,000 as well.

now, i know that people in canada are especially hockey-crazed, but halifax still seems a bit too small to me.

I really think Halifax could pull it off. There is a difference when it comes to which sports leagues will succeed in Canadian cities and U.S. cities. In Canada there is hockey and then everything else, in the U.S. different sports have different followings in different cities.

Halifax is small but it is a business and finance centre for all of Atlantic Canada. Any national brand has an office in Halifax, including the banks. The result is that Halifax has a corporate base much larger than a city of its size should have. People live for hockey up here, we don't need a million people to support a team. If Halifax had a stadium capable of seating 15K, we would be taking talk of the NHL in the city much more serious than we do today.

As for Atlanta? Yeah they were managed terribly but so was Columbus. Nashville nearly went belly up already and if they start to struggle perenially (like the Thrashers did) I wouldn't be surprised to see them mentioned as a relocation target again either. Their success has been good, but so has the on ice product.

[pdxtex]

people in michigan are hockey nuts, the grand rapids metro is now over 1 million. a cross state rivalry would be pretty cool. probably a long shot but still pretty cool. portland, oregon (which is socially an upper midwest state in my book), honestly would be a cool place for the NHL. lots of people agree. demographics are right and the income numbers seem decent. and conceptually, waaaaay better than #$%$^ las vegas. did i mention thats the last place that should get a hockey team?

[Derek]

We already have an NHL ready arena too.