HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > San Antonio


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #861  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2015, 2:42 AM
The ATX's Avatar
The ATX The ATX is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the lights are much brighter
Posts: 12,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoot View Post
All of the "murmurs" are from one side - San Antonio. Also, should the current growth rate remain relatively the same over the coming decades (estimated growth from 2010-2014), the Austin-San Antonio region may have roughly 8.2 million in it by July 2040 (~3.9 million in SA and ~4.3 million in Austin).

Austin and San Antonio are too far apart to make a "regional" airport viable. It is actually cost prohibitive. I also think Mayor Taylor's comment about creating a DFW-like airport for this region is laughable. DFW is what it is today because of its hub status. U.S. legacy airlines are not creating new hubs. In fact, they are moving away from that model as their customers are demanding more and more direct flights (see San Antonio's current concern). Furthermore, DFW is 17 miles from both downtown Dallas and Ft. Worth.

Austin tried to push for a regional airport in the 80's (an effort to bolster their economy, tourism, and passenger numbers via more direct flights)...San Antonio giggled and nothing happened. Today, about 30 years later, San Antonio is trying to push for a regional airport (in the same vain as Austin in the 80's) and now Austin isn't even giving the idea the time of day.
That pretty much sums up this topic.

So now maybe we can focus on rail options between the two cities. It seems that this is something both cities (and all or at least most of the 'tweener" cities) want.
__________________
Follow The ATX on X:
https://twitter.com/TheATX1

Things will be great when you're downtown.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #862  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2015, 3:04 AM
JACKinBeantown's Avatar
JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
JACKinBeantown
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 8,824
Wurzbach Parkway nearing completion at 281.

http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...witter-premium
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #863  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2015, 7:46 PM
kornbread kornbread is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 825
So transportation was the topic of the Austin-San Antonio growth summit. I don't really see the big deal about mayor Taylor bringing up air travel. They are talking about 2050. It's pretty clear that San Antonio needs to have some plans in place to address air travel from the city after that. Now whether Austin would be interested in a future project or not doesn't really matter. If so, they can discuss regional use; if not, then they won't. I can't imagine that the distance is going to be a stopping point in 35 years.

But it does bring up a good point. Right now there is little cooperation between the cities. Does there really need to be? In Austin, I don't get that there is much interest based on comments in these forums and just from what I generally hear in conversations on the street. The rail is an expensive proposal and I could see using it once in awhile as a person with SA ties, but I'm just as happy and comfortable driving. It probably benefits the smaller cities in between more than the cities themselves since they deal with commutes in the area more often or always.

So, I'm just interested in hearing why people think they should spend the time and energy on Lone Star rail, or any regional discussions anyway? If the cities are not close enough to be considered a region what is the benefit?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #864  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2015, 8:39 PM
JACKinBeantown's Avatar
JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
JACKinBeantown
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 8,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by kornbread View Post
So transportation was the topic of the Austin-San Antonio growth summit. I don't really see the big deal about mayor Taylor bringing up air travel. They are talking about 2050. It's pretty clear that San Antonio needs to have some plans in place to address air travel from the city after that. Now whether Austin would be interested in a future project or not doesn't really matter. If so, they can discuss regional use; if not, then they won't. I can't imagine that the distance is going to be a stopping point in 35 years.

But it does bring up a good point. Right now there is little cooperation between the cities. Does there really need to be? In Austin, I don't get that there is much interest based on comments in these forums and just from what I generally hear in conversations on the street. The rail is an expensive proposal and I could see using it once in awhile as a person with SA ties, but I'm just as happy and comfortable driving. It probably benefits the smaller cities in between more than the cities themselves since they deal with commutes in the area more often or always.

So, I'm just interested in hearing why people think they should spend the time and energy on Lone Star rail, or any regional discussions anyway? If the cities are not close enough to be considered a region what is the benefit?
China is building all kinds of infrastructure, including lots and lots of rail. This is very relevant because they're thinking and planning long term. So what if they go through a few years of recession (which they might). They'll come out of it in a very good place because they've been building with the long term in mind.

You may be happy driving in and around San Antonio now. But you won't in 35 years. I lived in San Antonio 35 years ago and traffic is much worse now. In another 35 years it will be exponentially worse.

San Antonio and Austin will most likely be one big metro area by then and having rail based transit between the two, as well as around the whole region, will be key in getting around.

Every large city goes through its primary years of growth, reaches a crisis point, and then starts planning better public/rail transportation. Dallas and Houston have reached that point and they've started doing something about it. San Antonio and Austin would be wise to make it happen sooner rather than later.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #865  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2015, 4:55 AM
kornbread kornbread is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 825
Bravo! for early planning and infrastructure investments.

I probably won't be driving in 35 years, but if I am I want my damn flying car where we'll get that versatile 3rd dimension for travel lanes.

I actually drove in the area near 35 years ago as well. The distance seemed much farther without the new development and driving on 35 was terrible because they were just starting to widen the highway.

Today there are more viable routes and lanes to get between the 2 cities, and with the help of some apps you can get around the bottlenecks when they pop up so it's actually an easier commute these days.

Still, the idea of more improvements and construction on 35 would drive me to rail, so I would rather there be other options in place sooner than later; or maybe better yet move out of the area.

As an add to the discussion, I was trying to find other areas across the country that had a similar situation to Austin-San Antonio (in terms of larger populations and proximity [~74 miles]). The closest seem to be: Charlotte-Greensboro [83 miles], Louisville-Cincinnati [83 miles), and maybe Baltimore-Philadelphia [90 miles]. I'm not that familiar with how any of these areas interact, but it is interesting (to me at least) to think in terms of distance what might be a similar situation. North Carolina seems to be the closest comparison.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #866  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2015, 4:07 PM
Sean1187 Sean1187 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by kornbread View Post
Bravo! for early planning and infrastructure investments.

I probably won't be driving in 35 years, but if I am I want my damn flying car where we'll get that versatile 3rd dimension for travel lanes.

I actually drove in the area near 35 years ago as well. The distance seemed much farther without the new development and driving on 35 was terrible because they were just starting to widen the highway.

Today there are more viable routes and lanes to get between the 2 cities, and with the help of some apps you can get around the bottlenecks when they pop up so it's actually an easier commute these days.

Still, the idea of more improvements and construction on 35 would drive me to rail, so I would rather there be other options in place sooner than later; or maybe better yet move out of the area.

As an add to the discussion, I was trying to find other areas across the country that had a similar situation to Austin-San Antonio (in terms of larger populations and proximity [~74 miles]). The closest seem to be: Charlotte-Greensboro [83 miles], Louisville-Cincinnati [83 miles), and maybe Baltimore-Philadelphia [90 miles]. I'm not that familiar with how any of these areas interact, but it is interesting (to me at least) to think in terms of distance what might be a similar situation. North Carolina seems to be the closest comparison.
I'd count San Francisco and San Jose on that list. They're less than 60 miles apart and both airports, SFO(7th busiest) and SJC(39th) do fairly well, even when you factor in OAK(35th). Compared to AUS being 34th busiest and SAT being 44th.
Source: FAA report 2014

And perhaps having two well performing airports is better than one large one. Last time I visited San Francisco, it was cheaper for us to fly into San Jose and take CalTrain to downtown San Francisco. Then when it was time to fly back to Phoenix(currently home), it was cheaper and easier to fly out of SFO. The rail connection between the cities made it easy to get around without having to rent a car. And we only needed a taxi from SJC to the train station.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #867  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2015, 7:42 PM
Jdawgboy's Avatar
Jdawgboy Jdawgboy is offline
Representing the ATX!!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,732
This is a really good discussion to have and thanks for initiating the conversation kornbread. I myself think that it is important for both cities to work together in terms of rail infrastructure.

In terms of air, I said on the ABIA update thread that in our region's situation, it makes more sense to have two major airports serving their respective anchor cities rather than creating one large airport in between. It doesn't matter how many people move in between the two it will always be 80 miles from the Alamo to the state capitol building. An airport in between would hurt SAT and AUS and GoldenBoot mentioned after my post that it would likely shut them down. A region such as ours needs two major airports not one. Austin's airport is not going to be outdated in 20-30 years, it's essentially new when it comes down to airports and it has a lot of room to grow and in 20 years, ABIA will likely be pushing 30 million yearly passengers so it would make even less sense then.

Now I'll get to rail. I think rail is vital for the success of our region but I'm not so sure about the LSTAR plan anymore. If this was 20 years ago, the LSTAR would have made more sense if it was up and running within 5 to 8 years. It's just going to be to slow. I also don't like many of the current proposed stops within Austin other than DT. I think we need to shift gears and take a serious look at high speed.

I actually thought of a possible solution to both air and rail. Why not build a high speed line connecting SAT and AUS... A direct service with no stops in between. That would open up air travel options without the need to drive. You could essentially travel from one to the other in 45 minuets or less. Better yet have a rail transit hub at the airports so you simply get off the bullet train and get on light rail to DT Austin or vice versa. Have the rail branch out into each metro. That would create a centralized combined air/rail hub. It's just a thought and it's based on the Areotropolis idea but I think it could work. The LSTAR rail doesn't seem like it's very cost and time efficient and you can only place stops along the existing line which limits desirable locations.

This is an important conversation to have and both Austin and SA forumers should keep the dialog open. I think the verses battles from several years back polarized both sides and we shut eachother out and mostly stuck to our own forums. It's time to change that. We can debate and still have a respectful and engaging conversations.
__________________
"GOOD TIMES!!!" Jerri Blank (Strangers With Candy)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #868  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2015, 7:44 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Austin -> San Antonio -> Columbia -> San Antonio -> Chicago -> Austin -> Denver
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
This is a really good discussion to have and thanks for initiating the conversation kornbread. I myself think that it is important for both cities to work together in terms of rail infrastructure.

In terms of air, I said on the ABIA update thread that in our region's situation, it makes more sense to have two major airports serving their respective anchor cities rather than creating one large airport in between. It doesn't matter how many people move in between the two it will always be 80 miles from the Alamo to the state capitol building. An airport in between would hurt SAT and AUS and GoldenBoot mentioned after my post that it would likely shut them down. A region such as ours needs two major airports not one. Austin's airport is not going to be outdated in 20-30 years, it's essentially new when it comes down to airports and it has a lot of room to grow and in 20 years, ABIA will likely be pushing 30 million yearly passengers so it would make even less sense then.

Now I'll get to rail. I think rail is vital for the success of our region but I'm not so sure about the LSTAR plan anymore. If this was 20 years ago, the LSTAR would have made more sense if it was up and running within 5 to 8 years. It's just going to be to slow. I also don't like many of the current proposed stops within Austin other than DT. I think we need to shift gears and take a serious look at high speed.

I actually thought of a possible solution to both air and rail. Why not build a high speed line connecting SAT and AUS... A direct service with no stops in between. That would open up air travel options without the need to drive. You could essentially travel from one to the other in 45 minuets or less. Better yet have a rail transit hub at the airports so you simply get off the bullet train and get on light rail to DT Austin or vice versa. Have the rail branch out into each metro. That would create a centralized combined air/rail hub. It's just a thought and it's based on the Areotropolis idea but I think it could work. The LSTAR rail doesn't seem like it's very cost and time efficient and you can only place stops along the existing line which limits desirable locations.

This is an important conversation to have and both Austin and SA forumers should keep the dialog open. I think the verses battles from several years back polarized both sides and we shut eachother out and mostly stuck to our own forums. It's time to change that. We can debate and still have a respectful and engaging conversations.
High speed rail is only viable in a large scale system of routes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #869  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2015, 9:19 PM
Jdawgboy's Avatar
Jdawgboy Jdawgboy is offline
Representing the ATX!!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
High speed rail is only viable in a large scale system of routes.
It could be incorporated into a broader statewide or interstate system.
__________________
"GOOD TIMES!!!" Jerri Blank (Strangers With Candy)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #870  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2015, 2:10 AM
JACKinBeantown's Avatar
JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
JACKinBeantown
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 8,824
The high speed rail between AUS and SAT (which is a great idea) could be part of a line between San Antonio and Dallas / For Worth, with a stop at DFW. My mom lives in San Antonio and likes to fly without making a connection. You can't do it to Boston... she has to drive to Austin. This could solve her problem (and the same for many people).

A related idea which should become national law is that whenever an interstate freeway is built or widened, it must incorporate two lanes of rail... one in each direction. The land is already there in many situations. The only thing stopping it is the oil lobbyists.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #871  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2015, 8:19 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Austin -> San Antonio -> Columbia -> San Antonio -> Chicago -> Austin -> Denver
Posts: 5,272
Yes... and isn't what both of y'all just replied with a larger scale system? ...

Thank you for making my point more clear.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #872  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2015, 7:07 PM
Fireoutofclay's Avatar
Fireoutofclay Fireoutofclay is offline
Weapon of Mass Creation
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 294
New Air Quality Standards Have Serious Implications for San Antonio
Posted By Mark Reagan
San Antonio Current
Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 5:26 PM
http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/archi...or-san-antonio

Quote:
Today the Environmental Protection Agency announced new air quality standards, which will likely usher San Antonio into non-compliance — possibly triggering new mandatory rules, like vehicle emissions testing.
Quote:
“San Antonio has grown in an unsustainable way and now we must take aggressive action to maintain our position as the largest clean air city in the nation,” Taylor says in a news release. “We will take quick action, challenge our regional partners and present an action plan before the EPA determines its dirty air designations. San Antonio is prepared to maintain our economic competitiveness while improving the health of our citizens.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #873  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2015, 8:46 PM
cole world11 cole world11 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MSP
Posts: 122
Here's a legitamate topic of discussion.

Now that US Airways has been fully merged with American, that moves some 8-10 flights into Terminal B. SAT has always and continues to have a large American presence; does anybody else think it may be time for American to consider SAT for an Admirals Club?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #874  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 4:03 PM
adtobias adtobias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 285
At one time AA was going to open a admirals club. This was about 12 years ago. AA only does things if enough Exe Plt email and write their customer service center.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #875  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 4:42 PM
ILUVSAT's Avatar
ILUVSAT ILUVSAT is offline
May the Schwartz be w/ U!
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Nomadic
Posts: 1,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by cole world11 View Post
Here's a legitamate topic of discussion.

Now that US Airways has been fully merged with American, that moves some 8-10 flights into Terminal B. SAT has always and continues to have a large American presence; does anybody else think it may be time for American to consider SAT for an Admirals Club?
Large presence...not really (and I use that term loosely). American/US Airways market share, as of June, was the second highest (when combined) at just under 22.5% (American=17.2% and US Airways=5.3%). United stood at 16%. SWA is still, by far, the most popular at SAT (40.4%).

I belive SAT will need to show more interest from business travelers and high-end leisure travelers to warrant AA to consider an Admirals club.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #876  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2015, 8:51 PM
cole world11 cole world11 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MSP
Posts: 122
True. Time will tell.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #877  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 1:37 AM
JACKinBeantown's Avatar
JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
JACKinBeantown
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 8,824
I imagine that admirals' clubs are mostly in airports that are hubs. Rich people don't want to hang out with the huddled masses when they have a layover, so they go hang out with other rich people and make business deals over cocktails. SAT isn't a hub. The fact that you have to make a connection to get just about anywhere from SAT is proof of that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #878  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 10:46 PM
aggie2008 aggie2008 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 105
Great news that an Indian based firm is opening shop at Port SA with 300 jobs planned in the next couple of years. It's interesting that I work in technology here in San Antonio with people who have to go back to India every once and a while and I've never heard of any of them going through SAT. Houston is always cheaper and faster. Maybe at some point we'll get where we can offer more directs (even if not to India itself) and be price competitive with other airports. Hopefully many more jobs follow this one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #879  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:46 AM
ILUVSAT's Avatar
ILUVSAT ILUVSAT is offline
May the Schwartz be w/ U!
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Nomadic
Posts: 1,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggie2008 View Post
Great news that an Indian based firm is opening shop at Port SA with 300 jobs planned in the next couple of years. It's interesting that I work in technology here in San Antonio with people who have to go back to India every once and a while and I've never heard of any of them going through SAT. Houston is always cheaper and faster. Maybe at some point we'll get where we can offer more directs (even if not to India itself) and be price competitive with other airports. Hopefully many more jobs follow this one.
Don't hold your breath (it's kind of a joke to even think about it).

There is not a direct flight to India out of DFW or IAH. Even if there was, SAT will not be getting a direct flight to India in our lifetime. AUS would get one before we do...they have FAR more Indians living there that we do here. Plus, their Tech industry is FAR larger than SA's. And, AUS will not be getting a N/S to India anytime in the coming few decades.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #880  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2015, 2:28 PM
Fireoutofclay's Avatar
Fireoutofclay Fireoutofclay is offline
Weapon of Mass Creation
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 294
Austin, San Antonio would benefit from a regional airport
By Joe Krier
Tribtalk.org
Oct. 29, 2015
http://tribtalk.org/2015/10/29/austi...ional-airport/

Quote:
Austin and San Antonio are practically running toward one another on Interstate 35. By 2040, our two great metro areas will be the poles of a mega regional economy.

Texas demographer Steve Murdock previewed that future in an interview with the Dallas Morning News last May:

“These might be two metropolitan statistical areas,” Murdock said, “but they’ll be linked in such a way that I don’t know whether people realize when they’ve left one to get to the other.”

In other words, our region is going to look more and more like the Metroplex in North Texas, home to nearly 7 million residents and bookended by Dallas and Fort Worth.

It’s time to start planning accordingly. Indeed, it’s almost past time. We need to seriously discuss the creation of a regional airport — a DFW for Central Texas.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > San Antonio
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:38 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.