How do you feel about Canada's role in fighting Isis? - Page 4

Danny D Oh · #61 Posted **Oct 9, 2014, 1:39 AM**

What's the end game for this mission?

This is the piece that is usually missing when these debates occur, and why the issue is continuous. I don't see a point in dropping bombs unless there is a clear and defined purpose. We should know by now that the perpetrators tend to flee and the bombs tend to take out far too many innocents, and the "mission" drags on.

Chorduroy · #62 Posted **Oct 9, 2014, 2:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

What's the end game for this mission?

This is the piece that is usually missing when these debates occur, and why the issue is continuous. I don't see a point in dropping bombs unless there is a clear and defined purpose. We should know by now that the perpetrators tend to flee and the bombs tend to take out far too many innocents, and the "mission" drags on.

This. Bombing alone simply will not work.

The solution lies with the people of those regions. At some point they have to take responsibility for their own security. How many billions in arms has the US given to these countries? They have the resources, they just need the will. The west needs to provide humanitarian support and nothing more.

flar · #63 Posted **Oct 9, 2014, 3:50 PM**

I wish we'd stay out of this shit. When we get involved, we increase our risks of becoming the target of a terror attack. Bombing the shit out of them will accomplish nothing but creating a new generation of people who know nothing but war and have a hatred for the West and have a huge thirst for revenge.

Is ISIS bad? Yes. Are they a threat? Yes. But what can we do about it? The only thing we could do is wipe them out completely, which is probably impossible. More of the same (bomb, bomb, bomb) will only make the situation worse. The idiotic Iraq war is what created this mess, just as the meddling in Afghanistan before created Al Quaeda. We are further radicalizing them by continuing with these failed policies.

flar · #64 Posted **Oct 10, 2014, 1:43 PM**

/thread (apparently), lol.

Rumors · #65 Posted **Oct 19, 2014, 12:02 PM**

I haven't heard to much about this on the news lately, the news media only seems to be focussing on Ebola these days.

JHikka · #66 Posted **Oct 19, 2014, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumors

I haven't heard to much about this on the news lately, the news media only seems to be focussing on Ebola these days.

It's amazing how much media can dictate what we see and care about on a day-to-day basis.

lio45 · #67 Posted **Oct 19, 2014, 6:04 PM**

If only we could find a simple way to infect a few of those jihadists with Ebola...

MonctonRad · #68 Posted **Oct 19, 2014, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

If only we could find a simple way to infect a few of those jihadists with Ebola...

I'm sure it could be done, but that would be biologic warfare which is forbidden by several international agreements.

kwoldtimer · #69 Posted **Oct 19, 2014, 7:06 PM**

I was going to say, the day we sink to biological warfare, the terrorists will have won.

SkydivePilot · #70 Posted **Oct 20, 2014, 1:27 AM**

I heard that ISIS severed a baby girl's head!!! Can anyone else verify this??!!!

I sincerely hope not.

PhilippeMtl · #71 Posted **Oct 20, 2014, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

I heard that ISIS severed a baby girl's head!!! Can anyone else verify this??!!!

I sincerely hope not.

Imagine the worst, ISIS did it. Can't believe some people are against an intervention.

flar · #72 Posted **Oct 20, 2014, 3:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilippeMtl

Imagine the worst, ISIS did it. Can't believe some people are against an intervention.

-Bad things happen every day, everywhere, even right in your own city, but especially in places like Africa. You just don't always hear about them. We can't intervene militarily in every situation.

-People who profit from war want you to be outraged by the things IS is doing, so you make an opinion based on emotion rather than rational thought. Realize that some people in this world want a never-ending war, I don't and I'm not going to help those people out.

-Intervening in the Middle East is what created the abomination of the Islamic State. Continuing to intervene will just make it worse (realize also that those never-ending war people know this).

-I favour some sort of containment of the Islamic State and assistance to the unfortunate people who unwillingly live in territory controlled by IS.

flar · #73 Posted **Oct 20, 2014, 3:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

If only we could find a simple way to infect a few of those jihadists with Ebola...

That would create a very serious problem, we need to get that ebola virus under control. Since jihadists don't care if they die, they would quite willingly infect themselves and then try to infect as many infidels as possible. Even worse than a suicide bomb, imagine exploding ebola victims in public areas. Not good at all.

big W · #74 Posted **Oct 21, 2014, 2:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilippeMtl

Imagine the worst, ISIS did it. Can't believe some people are against an intervention.

If you are for an intervention then you have to pick a side and see it to the end. The problem is there is no good sides for the most part. Who do you support and why.

Do you support the Syrian Regime?
These guys went so far as to fire upon protesters who where peaceful and unarmed by the way and decided that was not enough and used chemical weapons on them.

Do you support the Kurdish fighters in Syria?
These guys are part of the PKK which is deemed a terrorist organization by Turkey and NATO which includes us. Remember they were doing bombings kidnappings and had a 30 year gorilla war against the Turkish Government. Which by he way appear to have started up again in Turkey due to the fighting in Syria.

Do you support Al Nusra which is basically Al Quada in Syria (ISIS are the guys that Al-Quada deemed too extreme).

Do you support the FSA?
These are pretty much the soldiers who refused to fire on protesters and decided to fight for them and turn their guns on their government. Unfortunately they are not really organized and no real command structure etc. So unfortunately without any training organization etc they cannot do anything.

So what can we do.

The issue in Iraq is much simpler. In Iraq there is the issue with the Iraqi Government. Which the US messed up and essentially replaced Saddam with a Shiite dominated government that is no inclusive or representative of the people. Oh and by the way they are in the pocket of Iran. So again the Sunni Arabs and Kurds do not want them. So unless we have a true representative government in Iraq that is interested in governing for all the people of the country and not in settle old scores or under the thumb of foreign governments then this cannot work. The US started to get it right but then left due to Iraqi government pressure (read Iranian influence).

The problem is to get rid of ISIS in Iraq, but they are still in Syria. Basically you need people in both countries that you can deal with or realistically go all in in both countries and clean up the mess and then stay for a couple decades. Oh and by the way, that is assuming things don't spill over into Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan or Iran. Then figure try to figure it out.

Its nice to go in but what is the game plan and how do we achieve it.

DizzyEdge · #75 Posted **Oct 21, 2014, 2:53 PM**

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...dies-1.2807078

Soldier struck by Martin Rouleau in St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que., hit and run dies
Martin Rouleau's Facebook page shows increasingly radicalized beliefs, behaviour
CBC News Posted: Oct 21, 2014 6:20 AM ET Last Updated: Oct 21, 2014 10:32 AM ET

One of two soldiers wounded in a hit and run involving a "radicalized" 25-year-old man in St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que., has died, provincial police say.

Martin Rouleau, the 25-year-old suspect, was fatally shot on Monday after hitting two soldiers in a parking lot in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, a city about 40 kilometres southeast of Montreal.

The family of the soldier who died asked that his name not be released.

Police do not fear for the second soldier's life.

more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...dies-1.2807078

MrOilers · #76 Posted **Oct 21, 2014, 5:42 PM**

It seems like unbalanced kids just aren't joining cults anymore like they used to. Instead they join Islam.

ckkelley · #77 Posted **Nov 1, 2014, 3:46 PM**

I'm curious to see if any of the objectors to Canada's participation against ISIS has changed since the murders in Ottawa and St-Jean-sur-Richelieu. I'm assuming supporters of Canada's military participation has strengthened since.

I do note (perhaps, I'm wrong) that there are voters in Canada that hate Stephen Harper with such unrestrained vitriol, they will object to anything that is perceived to provide esteem and/or bolstered support. I read earlier on this forum from posters that suggest that they doubt the veracity of the RCMP account of the alleged video. As far as I know, there has been no history of collusion between the Conservative Party/PMO and the RCMP. What gives rise to such a suggestion?

vid · #78 Posted **Nov 2, 2014, 2:03 AM**

Why would we support a military campaign on the other side of the world because a mentally ill man shot someone in front of Parliament? And if the murder at St-Jean-sur-Richelieu is justification, it was apparently to retaliate against Canada for being militarily active in the Middle East, so logically becoming more active in that region would result in more similar attacks.

Anyone who uses the deaths of Patrice Vincent and Nathan Cirillo to ramp up the actions that possibly have led to their deaths is doing a disservice to them.

ckkelley · #79 Posted **Nov 2, 2014, 2:37 PM**

Thanks for the feedback.

The RCMP have stated that the killer's video showed a lucid individual with clear intent, motivated by political and religious righteousness. I did see the one picture of him brandishing a rifle while wearing a Islamic/Palestinian scarf.

For me it's pretty clear this man is a terrorist. I support military action but at the same time I do wonder if it will be effective or worthwhile. I may eventually lean to a position that the free world should have a policy of 'containment' insofar as possible.

It just breaks my heart to see innocent people die at the hands of evil and darkness.

Nouvellecosse · #80 Posted **Nov 2, 2014, 2:45 PM**

Assuming that he is a terrorist, what connection is there between his actions and how we handle other terrorists on the other side of the world? Is the implication that dropping more bombs in the middle east would prevent people like him in other parts of the world from being influenced by extreme ideas?

Or is the suggestion that the attacks would make Canadians so angry that they'd want to get revenge and take it out on someone even if it didn't achieve anything?