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  #3981  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2013, 11:38 PM
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Anqrew Anqrew is offline
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yeah the debate pops up every few months it seems... lol. I wonder why thats how the culture is in Arizona. Phoenix and Tucson have always kinda been rivals... but i think that competitive edge is good sometimes. But definitely two different types of cities. But both cities honestly could be a lot better. Phoenix can get grouped with places like Denver and Seattle, and out of those Phoenix isnt the best. Same goes for Tucson, out of our similar cities its not the best, I'd say we compare well to Albuquerque and Salt Lake City maybe (even though Tucson wants to be the next Portland/Austin its not really close to them yet) But we have to remember Urban Arizona is rather new. 50 years ago Phoenix and Tucson were not that significant so we just started late compared to all these other cities.


EDIT: WOOO PAGE 200 lol
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  #3982  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 1:12 AM
Thirsty Thirsty is offline
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Originally Posted by PHX31 View Post
I enjoy keeping up with Tucson projects, but sometimes I pass over this thread... any reason you Tucsonians keep everything in this thread? You could break it out into separate threads - for example, the streetcar is deserving of its own thread and it would be cool to check in on it there, rather than being buried in this catch-all thread.
Funny, I pass over a lot of Phoenix stuff because there are a dozen threads (though only 3-4 active at any time), but Tucson probably could stand to break it off into Downtown Tucson, Suburban Tucson, and probably a sort of regional business development thread.
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  #3983  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 2:08 AM
Ted Lyons Ted Lyons is offline
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Originally Posted by azliam View Post
Listen "Ted", what's more annoying are the comments in the Tucson forum about how everyone wishes for Tucson to never become another Phoenix.
Why do you care? As a matter of fact, I have several regular contributors here on ignore, not because I don't like them, but because it helps me avoid embarrassing situations such as this. Maybe you should consider doing the same . . . or not reading this forum if the comments bother you so much.

Quote:
While I am happy to see Tucson flourishing, I'm not just some random poster here. I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment when people don't "get it right" about either city.
Forgive me for missing all of your recent posts evidencing your current knowledge of development in both cities.
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  #3984  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 2:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirsty View Post
Funny, I pass over a lot of Phoenix stuff because there are a dozen threads (though only 3-4 active at any time), but Tucson probably could stand to break it off into Downtown Tucson, Suburban Tucson, and probably a sort of regional business development thread.
We could, but this is easier.
First off Happy 200th page and Easter.
Thank you Kanaui for all the help and work you've put into following development. I have been following your page for years. I'm a little scared that we're going to get lost without you.
Next: Tucson vs Phoenix. I'm a Tucsonan, have been all my life. Let me tell you something. Phoenix is a LOT better and I hate to say that. Drive down Baseline road or Ray Road and it's an urban paradise. What do we have Broadway, Oracle? Hopefully Houghton will come out to be a nice road but even Rita Ranch is going downhill. Most parts of Tucson are eye sores. 4th avenue? THE WORST!!!! I HATE HATE HATE 4th Avenue. All the buildings are crappy and they either sell novelty items or drugs. That road is what keeps regular people far away from downtown. I went there last week and was very disappointed. The only things for regular people there are Lindy's, Brooklyn's, Skybar and Magpies. Yea sure we have the street fair but that's not a year round occurrence. It's bad when the nicest building on the road is the Cadence. I'm not saying that we need to get rid of the bars and clubs (I'm not much of a drinker or a clubber) but we do need to update the buildings, torch the novelty stores. Everybody says that fourth avenue is the city's best, is it? Is the best of Tucson a road full of novelty stores? I hope that the downtown business Playground,Hub and other regular people stores and restaurants continue to thrive. I am really counting on ground level retail to on our new buildings to really pick up. If they become novelty stores, at least it's in a nicer newer building. Nothing is keeping UofA grads in Tucson. Maybe the streetcar will, but it seems that most people are running as far away from Tucson as possible. I'm sorry. I just hate it there. I had to rant.
Phoenix people. Not to be rude but run your own threads. This thread works for us Tucsonans (after what I said about 4th ave I'm probably going to be banished). Remember there's only like 15 of us and the most recent project to be approved was Hub a while back ago. Phoenix is a bigger city and has more going on. But I understand why your mentioning more pages. Please don't be offended by this.
Next on the list....
farmerk the links you posted were helpful. The one with "similar sized cites" was kinda like a reminder that we need to step it up. Palm Springs is nowhere close to the size of Tucson but yet they have a better convention center than we do?! I also saw a new picture of the Junction at Iron Horse. It looks bigger and closer in size to the District on Fifth. Nice. I'd be okay with that area being hit with Parisization as I'm calling it. Washington DC works pretty well without any tall buildings but a crap load of 6-15 story buildings.
EDIT- Sorry if I forgot who the links were posted by. I think I got it wrong

Last edited by Ritarancher; Apr 2, 2013 at 2:56 AM.
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  #3985  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 4:59 AM
azliam azliam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Lyons View Post
Why do you care? As a matter of fact, I have several regular contributors here on ignore, not because I don't like them, but because it helps me avoid embarrassing situations such as this. Maybe you should consider doing the same . . . or not reading this forum if the comments bother you so much.



Forgive me for missing all of your recent posts evidencing your current knowledge of development in both cities.
Why do I care and what is so embarrassing? I attempted to correct a poster's incorrect assumptions... this website should be more of an informative site rather than the pissing match some try to make it out to be. It's not about "who's right", it's about "what's right". You can keep me on ignore if you'd like as my intention wasn't to drag you into this conversation, but thanks for your contribution.
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  #3986  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 5:46 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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I'm a Phoenix resident; where was the mistake exactly in his post? The Sheraton is, unfortunately, the tallest building built recently, as far as I know. There has been a lot of progress in Phoenx recently, but not much in the way of true skyscrapers. I believe only one "skyscraper" is currently under construction, CityScape tower 2, and even that will be under 300' I believe.
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  #3987  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 9:20 AM
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aznate27 aznate27 is offline
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Anyway......
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  #3988  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 1:38 PM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ritarancher View Post
Phoenix is a LOT better and I hate to say that. Drive down Baseline road or Ray Road and it's an urban paradise.
Is this sarcasm? Do you mean suburban paradise? There is nothing urban about Baseline or Ray Rd.


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Originally Posted by Jjs5056 View Post
I'm a Phoenix resident; where was the mistake exactly in his post? The Sheraton is, unfortunately, the tallest building built recently, as far as I know. There has been a lot of progress in Phoenx recently, but not much in the way of true skyscrapers. I believe only one "skyscraper" is currently under construction, CityScape tower 2, and even that will be under 300' I believe.
The Freeport McMoran Building, Cityscape Office Tower, and County Courthouse were all finished a few years after the Sheraton. Still during the same era though.

The more I see and read about the Cityscape Residences the more hopeful I am that it will be more than 300 feet. Floors 1 and 2 of the hotel are both high floors (20ish foot ceilings), and the first floor of the apartments will likewise have high ceilings in order to house mechanical equipment, the outdoor pool, and common areas. I'm starting to think it will be 310' - 320' tall.

Last edited by nickw252; Apr 2, 2013 at 9:57 PM.
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  #3989  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 2:00 PM
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I'm glad things are moving forward in Metro Phoenix. I love their light rail system. They got some restaurants downtown that I wished would relocate in downtown Tucson. There's this recently opened sushi place owned by a Japanese family downtown that I keep harassing them to set up shop downtown Tucson. I have to show them a map where Tucson is, btw.

As for Phoenix vs Tucson, how can we get along?
1 - Build a record breaking high speed rail between Tucson and Phoenix
2 - Bring back Destry Jetton to the Old Pueblo
3 - Of course, we need to just wait for this evil person to leave --> SATAN

RRancher, thanks for using the word, Parisization . It's a very high benchmark for Tucson but the Old Pueblo needs it otherwise Tucsonans will be back to the ol' manana attitude (nah, there's always next time...).
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  #3990  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 5:40 PM
Ted Lyons Ted Lyons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickw252 View Post
Is this sarcasm? Do you mean suburban paradise?
The comment that elicited this (rational) response is why some of us need to choose our battles wisely.
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  #3991  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 5:42 PM
Ted Lyons Ted Lyons is offline
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FYI, it looks like a crane is going up at The Hub site. One should be erected on Park soon, too, I would think.
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  #3992  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 6:22 PM
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southtucsonboy77 southtucsonboy77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ted Lyons View Post
FYI, it looks like a crane is going up at The Hub site. One should be erected on Park soon, too, I would think.
I was there yesterday and noticed that too, it's exciting to watch this unfold. THREE 10 + storied buildings in one location in a year and 1/2 timeframe (compared to nearly zero in 20 years...), I got a tear in my eye.

One comment on the original Sheraton Hotel(s) statement...originally, when Tucson was on track to build the convention Sheraton, our Sheraton was the exact template (shell) of the downtown Phoenix Sheraton. I attended 2 design open houses that the contractor/Rio Nuevo/Tucson held...and one comment/suggestion I made was to please don't let it be the carbon copy of the Phx building...most attendees agreed and/or had the same concern...that's how the completed design rendering came to be. I thought it was a nice looking building once they implemented our suggestions.
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  #3993  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 7:46 PM
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ProfessorMole ProfessorMole is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Lyons View Post
FYI, it looks like a crane is going up at The Hub site. One should be erected on Park soon, too, I would think.
Here's a shot from today of the worksite. You can't see it in the photo, but about half of the first two floors of Level are bricked.

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  #3994  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 8:48 PM
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Anqrew Anqrew is offline
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Originally Posted by Ritarancher View Post
Phoenix is a LOT better and I hate to say that. Drive down Baseline road or Ray Road and it's an urban paradise. What do we have Broadway, Oracle? Hopefully Houghton will come out to be a nice road but even Rita Ranch is going downhill. Most parts of Tucson are eye sores. 4th avenue? THE WORST!!!! I HATE HATE HATE 4th Avenue. All the buildings are crappy and they either sell novelty items or drugs. That road is what keeps regular people far away from downtown. I went there last week and was very disappointed. The only things for regular people there are Lindy's, Brooklyn's, Skybar and Magpies.

FYI...your use of the word "regular people" is a bit ignorant and offensive. What exactly is a "regular person" ? are "regular people" better or more desirable than "weird people" ? Just something for you to think about...

What do Baseline and Ray have to offer? Im not familiar with those corridors but Im just going to guess a lot of chains and cookie cutter shopping centers and large malls? and those roads are probably 6 lanes with huge medians... tons of parking spots?

Thats not an urban paradise, thats a suburban corporate paradise. Its not unique, those types of areas can be found in any city. Thats not special. 4th Avenue is.. I dont go to Bars or Clubs either but 4th Avenue has tons of cute shops and restaurants, theres something for everyone. There are honestly so many shops, a lot of people overlook them.

furthermore all the buildings on 4th ave are not crappy, they are just fine. just because the were built before you were born and arent made of stucco like all the houses in Rita Ranch, doesnt mean a building is crappy. Those buildings on 4th are full of life and character.

But sure... 4th Ave can look a bit dirty.. the sidewalks could use replacing (something thats always bugged me), better lighting, they could plant some new trees, put in new planters, some buildings could use a new coat of paint or a fresher look... I agree with that.. But that all costs money... Im sure once the streetcar is rolling through and Student housing is done, these businesses will start getting more money, and they will begin to invest in making some things look nicer.. in the meantime all we can do is wait for those improvements to come. Im sure the city has all these plans for improvement especially if you have taken a look at their plans for the 4th ave/warehouse overlay district. I even emailed the mayor about these issues and he said those were all something they were aiming for. So i think eventually 4th ave will get a liitle cleaner, which is all it needs really. other than that the character is what makes it special

Last edited by Anqrew; Apr 2, 2013 at 9:00 PM.
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  #3995  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2013, 9:24 PM
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aznate27 aznate27 is offline
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Originally Posted by ProfessorMole View Post
Here's a shot from today of the worksite. You can't see it in the photo, but about half of the first two floors of Level are bricked.

Really excited about the new Hub crane going up!
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  #3996  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 1:40 AM
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Phoenix people, I just saw the rendering of the Pin. I am so sorry that you guys have to deal with that.
http://inhabitat.com/big-wants-to-pu...rvation-tower/

With 4 and a half million people. Phoenix is already on the map.

Anyway....

Andreq
My definition of regular people was those who are not hippies, hipsters, occupy protestors Ect. I simply meant people who
Point being, I have more of a problem with what is sold inside the stores at 4th ave rather than what the building's condition is. Yea the new students are going to help sales but not for all stores because some are completely irrelevant to what these people need. I can see the restaurants and bars thriving, for sure but people need grocery stores, clothing stores and hardware stores. At this point I don't care if a Target Urban (if that's what it's called) comes by and inhabits the lobby of the cadence. I think that a trader joes would also be nice at the lobby of a building. The housing developers have taken advantage of the student population and streetcar but the retail side of this has not taken off.
I hate to break it to you but forth avenue does NOT have something for everyone. Unless everybody is in need of some metal yard art sculptures and Tucson postcards.


Famerk
Yes the Parisization is what can make Tucson become a great city. I imagine what the city would be like in 20 years. I always hope that the area between downtown and the UofA becomes full of 4-8 story buildings. Torch those old crappy "Historic" homes for all I care (the Pioneer fire guy got released from prison today). Sure they're nice for their age but their time on this planet has come to an end. Nobody wants a 70 year old home without air conditioning and has only 1000 square feet but cost more than a new suburban home. I read an EXTREMELY biased news article by the Tucson daily (or so I think) and its this middle aged woman talking about how awful the district on 5th is and how bad it looks, how she and many others attend candle light vigils for homes that get demolished. I'm not joking, people mourn and cry over demolition of an empty home.

Elsewhere
I know that Phoenix has built more than the Sheraton this era, they've built buildings taller than any here in Tucson but relative to the size of the city we should not look up to Phoenix for a healthy downtown. Cities like Atlanta and Miami have built themselves a much healthier downtown than Phoenix.

For the better of Tucson and Phoenix, we need to eliminate Casa Grande Development. A high speed rail SHOULD do the trick, as long as it's nonstop but for some reason the decision of stopping in Casa Grande will be up to them, even though they'll only account for 2% of all riders.
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  #3997  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 3:27 AM
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Actually there IS something for everyone on 4th avenue. As someone who actually lives less than a mile away vs someone who lives in Rita Ranch, im pretty sure i have a bit more experience. And again what makes Hippies Hipsters and Protestors not regular people? i dont understand what differentiates this population from the rest of the "regular" population?Ever thought to consider that people consider YOU not regular? like i said its just ignorant.

Metal and postcards? I'm not sure what you are talking about, and it sounds like you've probably only been to 4th avenue once in your life and it was probably for a streetfair im guessing? heres a list of everything on 4th and you tell me if this list of shops doesn't cater to a large demographic of people.

Like books? go to Antigones. Like cheap clothes? go to Goodwill or one of the many Thrift Shops. Like Sweets? go to Chocolate Iguana. list goes on and on......:

A Foam and Fabric Place | Antigone Books | Arroyo Design | Barb’s Frame of Mind | Cabat Studios | Celestial Rites | Creations | Creative Ventures | Del Sol | Desert Vintage | Dos Diablos Tattoo World | Everest Souvenirs | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | Fathead Glass | Goodwill | Hippie Gypsy | Hi-Tech Computers | How Sweet It Was | La Iguana Art Gallery | Lollipop Culture Shop | Messages Remembered | Moon Smoke Shop | Nowhere to Land | Olytata | Pop Cycle | Razorz Edge | Roll With It | Sacred Art Tattoo | Sea of Green Hydrogardens | Silver Sea Jewelry | Rustic Candle Company | The Book Stop | The Historic Y | The Other Side | The Outlet Tucson | The Rogue Theatre | Tucson Artistic Gifts | Tucson Thrift Shop | United Fire | WGH Woodworking | ZUZI Dance Co. Bison Witches | Che’s Lounge | IBT’s | Maloney’s | Mr. Heads | O’Malleys | Sky Bar | Surly Wench | The Hut | The Shanty | The Wreck Athens | Bison Witches | Brooklyn Pizza Company | Buddhas Dog House | Bumsted’s | Cafe Marcel | Caruso’s | Chocolate Iguana | Dairy Queen | Delectables | Epic Cafe | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | La Indita | Magpies | Martins Comida Chingona | Maloney’s | Maya Quetzal | Medusa Kabob House | O’Malleys | Pancho Villa’s Grill | The B-Line | The Parlour | World Wide Wrappers


Tell me where else you will find these stores?.... nowhere... thats why 4th Avenue is valuable.
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  #3998  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 4:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Anqrew View Post
Actually there IS something for everyone on 4th avenue. As someone who actually lives less than a mile away vs someone who lives in Rita Ranch, im pretty sure i have a bit more experience. And again what makes Hippies Hipsters and Protestors not regular people? i dont understand what differentiates this population from the rest of the "regular" population?Ever thought to consider that people consider YOU not regular? like i said its just ignorant.

Metal and postcards? I'm not sure what you are talking about, and it sounds like you've probably only been to 4th avenue once in your life and it was probably for a streetfair im guessing? heres a list of everything on 4th and you tell me if this list of shops doesn't cater to a large demographic of people.

Like books? go to Antigones. Like cheap clothes? go to Goodwill or one of the many Thrift Shops. Like Sweets? go to Chocolate Iguana. list goes on and on......:

A Foam and Fabric Place | Antigone Books | Arroyo Design | Barb’s Frame of Mind | Cabat Studios | Celestial Rites | Creations | Creative Ventures | Del Sol | Desert Vintage | Dos Diablos Tattoo World | Everest Souvenirs | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | Fathead Glass | Goodwill | Hippie Gypsy | Hi-Tech Computers | How Sweet It Was | La Iguana Art Gallery | Lollipop Culture Shop | Messages Remembered | Moon Smoke Shop | Nowhere to Land | Olytata | Pop Cycle | Razorz Edge | Roll With It | Sacred Art Tattoo | Sea of Green Hydrogardens | Silver Sea Jewelry | Rustic Candle Company | The Book Stop | The Historic Y | The Other Side | The Outlet Tucson | The Rogue Theatre | Tucson Artistic Gifts | Tucson Thrift Shop | United Fire | WGH Woodworking | ZUZI Dance Co. Bison Witches | Che’s Lounge | IBT’s | Maloney’s | Mr. Heads | O’Malleys | Sky Bar | Surly Wench | The Hut | The Shanty | The Wreck Athens | Bison Witches | Brooklyn Pizza Company | Buddhas Dog House | Bumsted’s | Cafe Marcel | Caruso’s | Chocolate Iguana | Dairy Queen | Delectables | Epic Cafe | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | La Indita | Magpies | Martins Comida Chingona | Maloney’s | Maya Quetzal | Medusa Kabob House | O’Malleys | Pancho Villa’s Grill | The B-Line | The Parlour | World Wide Wrappers


Tell me where else you will find these stores?.... nowhere... thats why 4th Avenue is valuable.
Your taking this a little harder than you should. All I am saying is that there is no stores for the everyday customer, meaning that there is no Target/Walmart alternative at fourth avenue. Not to be mean but half the stores on your list are actually places to eat, or drink. I do trust that you know more about 4th avenue than me but I consider myself to know a lot more about downtown than most of the population and I still never know much about what they sell there. From the list and my previous experience they don't seem to have much for sale for the 0-35 crowd, with exception of that Hello Kitty Store. I also don't always want clothes from the goodwill, not to offend anybody...
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  #3999  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 4:56 AM
Thirsty Thirsty is offline
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Ritarancher

What is the password to buy drugs at 4th Ave businesses?

Say I want to buy some weed, do I go to Food Conspiracy, wink twice then ask for the "sprouts" while knocking on wood. Or do I go to Bison Witches, knock twice, then ask for the "extra hops" while winking conspicuously?

FWIW, when I was in high school, they place to buy was Park Place Mall. In other words, the place people who are afraid to set foot downtown choose to congregate.
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  #4000  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:17 AM
Ted Lyons Ted Lyons is offline
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Originally Posted by Thirsty View Post
FWIW, when I was in high school, they place to buy was Park Place Mall. In other words, the place people who are afraid to set foot downtown choose to congregate.
Don't tell Ritarancher that the schools with the worst drug problems in Tucson are all out in his neck of the woods.
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