Atlantic Highways Thread

[josh_cat_eyes]

I like how they plastered a big IKEA logo on the government document haha.

[JHikka]

Glad to see the 103 twinning going through. A bit miffed that non-NS plates will still be tolled at Cobequid. You'd think non-NS plates wouldn't garner enough revenue to warrant keeping the tolls open and their operating expenditure would probably exceed non-NS plate revenue.

[Ire Narissis]

They probably see enough during tourist season, but I can't imagine that the dearth of out-of-province plates in the winter wouldn't see the operating costs completely erase any money raised during the summer...

[q12]

I see a combination of just as many N.B., P.E.I, and even N.L. plates in the winter on the Cobequid pass as N.S. plates. Remember that traffic from the Marine Atlantic ferry from Newfoundland has to travel on it to head west to Central Canada/U.S. Also the P.E.I./N.S. ferry doesn't' operate in the winter. There really is only about 25,000 Nova Scotians that live on the western side of the Cobequid pass.

I'd still be curious how you would set up a tolling system though for only out of province plates. The truck traffic might make more sense as it does the most damage to our highways.

F.Y.I. I added the IKEA logo, not the gov't. Once IKEA opens at the end of the summer, they could just call it the IKEA toll, ha ha.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Glad to see the 103 twinning going through. A bit miffed that non-NS plates will still be tolled at Cobequid. You'd think non-NS plates wouldn't garner enough revenue to warrant keeping the tolls open and their operating expenditure would probably exceed non-NS plate revenue.

Maybe it's time to consider setting up a toll booth near Salisbury charging tolls on cars only sporting NS plates.

We could call it the NS exit toll........

Note I chose Salisbury only to avoid pissing off all those Nova Scotians from Cumberland County coming up to Moncton to shop.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Maybe it's time to consider setting up a toll booth near Salisbury charging tolls on cars only sporting NS plates.

We could call it the NS exit toll........

Note I chose Salisbury only to avoid pissing off all those Nova Scotians from Cumberland County coming up to Moncton to shop.

See you try to get NB'ers to sign a petition for that, and get another one that calls for the placement to be in Aulac... I vote for Aulac




PS This is sarcasm since some people don't seem to understand it.

[kirjtc2]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Instead, they'll probably make deals with Irving and other locations along the way. Most of the spots I pointed out already have a major Irving truck stop/rest stop in place.

The only one that might be missing is the Pokiok/Nackawic stretch; in that case they might put it at the PetroCanada truckstop at Kings Landing instead.

Looks like that's what they're doing.

https://twitter.com/irvingoil/status/882614222114476032

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

Looks like that's what they're doing.

https://twitter.com/irvingoil/status/882614222114476032

Good move by Irving.

The age of the traditional gas station is going to have to end sometime in the next 10-40 years. There will be increasing pressure placed on dinosaur properties over that timeframe. It's good to get ahead of the curve........

[gehrhardt]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Good move by Irving.

The age of the traditional gas station is going to have to end sometime in the next 10-40 years. There will be increasing pressure placed on dinosaur properties over that timeframe. It's good to get ahead of the curve........

I can see the demand for gasoline declining over that time period as automotive electric and hydrogen powerplants develop and costs decline, but I don't think gas stations will disappear in my lifetime.

More than just passenger vehicles run on that sweet, sweet dino-juice.

While everyone else is being shuttled around in their electric autonomous Maytag blobs, I'll be enjoying the burble of a V8.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by gehrhardt

I can see the demand for gasoline declining over that time period as automotive electric and hydrogen powerplants develop and costs decline, but I don't think gas stations will disappear in my lifetime.

More than just passenger vehicles run on that sweet, sweet dino-juice.

While everyone else is being shuttled around in their electric autonomous Maytag blobs, I'll be enjoying the burble of a V8.

I get a sense you believe EV's are cheap and lack power - but you couldn't be more wrong. I would recommend a bit more research into the topic. Tesla has well proven that EV's will be and are attractive and powerful - much more powerful than most combustion engines out there. In September Tesla will unveil it's transport truck, which is rumored to be able to out torque any conventional truck going backwards up a hill with a full load. Think about that for a moment.

Further - the future will be EV and it will happen much more quickly than you anticipate. I'm not sure how old you are - but gas stations will disappear over the next 20 years. Further, hydrogen cars will never see the light of day.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

Further - the future will be EV and it will happen much more quickly than you anticipate. I'm not sure how old you are - but gas stations will disappear over the next 20 years. Further, hydrogen cars will never see the light of day.

I tend to agree, but I don't think the gas station will disappear quite as soon as you anticipate (which is why I used the 10-40 year time horizon). The disappearance of the gas station will begin slowly, and then rapidly accelerate.

It all really depends on how quickly battery technology progresses. I think urban gas stations will begin to disappear quite soon (10 years or so). It will take longer for gas stations in more rural areas to go. The real game changer will be if they can make a battery with capacity great enough to provide power for a vehicle similar to a full tank of gas (600-700 km). Once that happens, the internal combustion engine will be toast.

The gas station of the future will be a roadside rest stop with a café and a convenience store and multiple fast charging stations for EVs. There will likely also be a couple of conventional gas pumps too (for legacy vehicles) but most of these "gas stations" will only be found on intercity highways or in small towns. Urban gas stations are destined to become Dodos and will disappear from our urban fabric. Most urbanites will charge their vehicles at home before venturing off to shop or go to work. If charging on the run is necessary while in the city, I think you will find they will find a way to combine a charging station and a parking meter all in one. If you go off to a restaurant in the evening, you would park at a meter/charging station on the street, swipe your credit card, plug in your vehicle, have an enjoyable meal and then come back to a fully charged vehicle, ready to go.

Personally, I won't mourn the passing of the gas station. The new rest stops/charging stations that will replace them might be much nicer (since you will likely be cooling your heels for a half hour or so while your car charges, they will have to provide you with something interesting for you to do while you wait).

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I tend to agree, but I don't think the gas station will disappear quite as soon as you anticipate (which is why I used the 10-40 year time horizon). The disappearance of the gas station will begin slowly, and then rapidly accelerate.

It all really depends on how quickly battery technology progresses. I think urban gas stations will begin to disappear quite soon (10 years or so). It will take longer for gas stations in more rural areas to go. The real game changer will be if they can make a battery with capacity great enough to provide power for a vehicle similar to a full tank of gas (600-700 km). Once that happens, the internal combustion engine will be toast.

The gas station of the future will be a roadside rest stop with a café and a convenience store and multiple fast charging stations for EVs. There will likely also be a couple of conventional gas pumps too (for legacy vehicles) but most of these "gas stations" will only be found on intercity highways or in small towns. Urban gas stations are destined to become Dodos and will disappear from our urban fabric. Most urbanites will charge their vehicles at home before venturing off to shop or go to work. If charging on the run is necessary while in the city, I think you will find they will find a way to combine a charging station and a parking meter all in one. If you go off to a restaurant in the evening, you would park at a meter/charging station on the street, swipe your credit card, plug in your vehicle, have an enjoyable meal and then come back to a fully charged vehicle, ready to go.

Personally, I won't mourn the passing of the gas station. The new rest stops/charging stations that will replace them might be much nicer (since you will likely be cooling your heels for a half hour or so while your car charges, they will have to provide you with something interesting for you to do while you wait).

How in the heck am I suppose to get gas for my lawnmower.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I tend to agree, but I don't think the gas station will disappear quite as soon as you anticipate (which is why I used the 10-40 year time horizon). The disappearance of the gas station will begin slowly, and then rapidly accelerate.

It all really depends on how quickly battery technology progresses. I think urban gas stations will begin to disappear quite soon (10 years or so). It will take longer for gas stations in more rural areas to go. The real game changer will be if they can make a battery with capacity great enough to provide power for a vehicle similar to a full tank of gas (600-700 km). Once that happens, the internal combustion engine will be toast.

The gas station of the future will be a roadside rest stop with a café and a convenience store and multiple fast charging stations for EVs. There will likely also be a couple of conventional gas pumps too (for legacy vehicles) but most of these "gas stations" will only be found on intercity highways or in small towns. Urban gas stations are destined to become Dodos and will disappear from our urban fabric. Most urbanites will charge their vehicles at home before venturing off to shop or go to work. If charging on the run is necessary while in the city, I think you will find they will find a way to combine a charging station and a parking meter all in one. If you go off to a restaurant in the evening, you would park at a meter/charging station on the street, swipe your credit card, plug in your vehicle, have an enjoyable meal and then come back to a fully charged vehicle, ready to go.

Personally, I won't mourn the passing of the gas station. The new rest stops/charging stations that will replace them might be much nicer (since you will likely be cooling your heels for a half hour or so while your car charges, they will have to provide you with something interesting for you to do while you wait).

I couldn't agree more with your comments. EV's will eliminate (for the most part) the need for gas stations within cities as EV owners will drive to work during the day and then charge their vehicle at night. If there is a charging requirement these will be found in parking lots or at parking meters. There will be a requirement for large EV charging stations along the highway networks. For a full charge you are likely looking at 30 minutes, however if you are driving a long distance stopping for 30 minutes after 600-700km won't be a big issue. I find the future of EV's very exciting and I believe the pace of change will come very quickly. Even Volvo announced this morning all vehicles produced beginning in 2019 will have at least some component of electric. Looking forward to the NB Power / Irving announcement tomorrow.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

How in the heck am I suppose to get gas for my lawnmower.

The changes won't happen overnight (see my 40 year projected time horizon), and, ultimately all lawn mowers will be electric too (again, if battery technology progresses).

In any event, if there is a demand out there, free enterprise will make sure it get's serviced. There may be legacy filling stations for internal combustion vehicles and appliances, they just won't be as handy and as convenient as they are now.

As I've said, the changes will be slower in the rural regions and small towns than they will be in the cities.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

How in the heck am I suppose to get gas for my lawnmower.

You won't need gas for your electric lawnmower

I switched to an electric mower 5 years ago and it works great. The technology has obviously improved greatly since. I don't have to worry about filling it with gas or changing the oil, nor do I have to breathe in toxic fumes as I walk behind the thing.

[gehrhardt]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

I get a sense you believe EV's are cheap and lack power - but you couldn't be more wrong. I would recommend a bit more research into the topic. Tesla has well proven that EV's will be and are attractive and powerful - much more powerful than most combustion engines out there. In September Tesla will unveil it's transport truck, which is rumored to be able to out torque any conventional truck going backwards up a hill with a full load. Think about that for a moment.

Further - the future will be EV and it will happen much more quickly than you anticipate. I'm not sure how old you are - but gas stations will disappear over the next 20 years. Further, hydrogen cars will never see the light of day.

Please don't make assumptions about a person being naive and uninformed, just because they stated their preference for one technology over another. If you read my original post, I never commented on the current state of EVs.

I've been a lover of cars for my whole life (I'm in my 40s). My fondest memories are of "helping" my grandfather work on his various antique cars in his garage when I was very young.

I am well aware of the Tesla and what it can do. There have been great advances in hybrid and EV technology since the late '90s and I have been following them since the Saturn EV1 came out.

Society as a whole is definitely moving towards electric or alternative powertrains. Once the price of the technology drops and becomes more accessible to the masses (which is starting to happen already), you will see widespread adoption.

For many people, electric vehicles are the ideal solution. A significant segment of the population couldn't even tell you what's under the hood of their current vehicle anyway. I won't get into the use of heavy metals in batteries and how we are swapping one form of pollution for another. Power generation is not impact-free, no matter it's source.

As for hydrogen powered vehicles, they exist today. Many municipalities are using hydrogen in buses and other city vehicles. Honda has been leasing the Clarity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Clarity) in select markets since 2008. James May even reviewed one on Top Gear and came back very impressed. The largest hurdle to Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles is the cost of the technology and creation of the infrastructure required for refuelling. That was the argument against EVs 20 years ago. Heck, that's what this whole charging station discussion is about. Saying that it will never happen is a little short sighted.

All of this doesn't change the fact that I (and many others) prefer gasoline powered cars. Go to the Atlantic Nationals this weekend and see. I enjoy the experience of an internal combustion engine. The vibrations, sounds, and smells all play a factor. It's not always about the technology, efficiency, or power delivery. It's an emotional experience that just is not the same in an EV.

Let me give you the following example. I enjoy listening to music on LP. My wife and I will sit in the living room and put on a record. We own smartphones, iPods, and CD players; however, we choose to listen to a record.

No doubt the sound quality of a CD or digital media (depending on bitrate and format) is technically superior to my old record and much more convenient. I just prefer the experience of sitting there listening to it.

You're free to have and love an electric vehicle. That won't change how I feel about current cars running on gasoline.

[Sunnybrae]

In the seventies I was told by the year 2000 we would all have flying cars. Yup, another example of don't believe everything you read or hear. The reality is we are just changing one form of pollution for another, but it makes us feel good driving EV's so it's alright.

[Taeolas]

The advantage, is that the pollution is more contained (and/or concentrated) which should make it easier to handle one way or another. Instead of millions of vehicles spewing CO2 and other pollutants in small amounts (per vehicle) all over the world, you have the heavy metals and other pollutants concentrated mostly in the battery production (and recycling) stations, and in the energy generation sites. (aside from random accident locations where batteries could spill out)

In the years to come, as the technology spreads and improves, the gas station will be changing over and seeing a major change. As noted, cities will likely see them disappear the fastest as we won't need as much gas available all around, while the highway system and rural stations will persist the longest. I'd dare say we'll see that within a generation or so (20-30 years) likely.

[MonctonRad]

I'm flummoxed that they keep building new gas stations (at least in Moncton). There are two gas stations on Mapleton Road built in the last 1-2 years (with possibly a third one slated for the new development containing the new Holiday Inn). There is also possibly a new gas station coming to Champlain Street in Dieppe near the CCNB. Why are they building these things when the writing is clearly on the wall (not for the next few year, but definitely in the next 20-30 years)?? It makes no sense. The market in Moncton is already well served by gas stations. We really don't need any more.......

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

The advantage, is that the pollution is more contained (and/or concentrated) which should make it easier to handle one way or another. Instead of millions of vehicles spewing CO2 and other pollutants in small amounts (per vehicle) all over the world, you have the heavy metals and other pollutants concentrated mostly in the battery production (and recycling) stations, and in the energy generation sites. (aside from random accident locations where batteries could spill out)

In the years to come, as the technology spreads and improves, the gas station will be changing over and seeing a major change. As noted, cities will likely see them disappear the fastest as we won't need as much gas available all around, while the highway system and rural stations will persist the longest. I'd dare say we'll see that within a generation or so (20-30 years) likely.

Then further to this point as they were just talking on CBC noon, the autonomous electric vehicle will make car dealerships obsolete because you will not need to own a vehicle.