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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 9:38 PM
RumbleFish RumbleFish is offline
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Also it annoys me that these articles try to create hysteria, like evil white people are arriving en masse to overtake the SF empire and turn this into Mayberry, USA. 99% of minorities being forced out has to do with socioeconomics, cost of living, job market, etc. They tend to write these articles literally so black and white -- as if the white people are bad guys out to destroy "authentic" ethnic neighborhoods. If anything, city politics are the culprit in addition to rampant NIMBYism...these two elements will stop at nothing to ensure no new housing or hirises gets built, which in turn makes places like SF very unaffordable for minorities who typically are lower wage earners because of the supply vs. demand.
The US has a very anti-white agenda these days (primarily male) via television, newspapers, movies, politicians, school teachers, laws etc. Many of our problems (past and present) are blamed on whitey and there seems to be a celebration that our country is becoming less European. I know that we are taught and programmed to never ever! ever! ever! be pro European (racist), but to be pro everything else (diversity), but has our country improved because of this?
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't see the inconsistency. I'm saying it's more reasonable to compare SF to cities that are most alike- the LA and NYC and DC type places. Big, rich, cosmopolitan cities with lots of immigrants and nonwhites. These cities, generally speaking, have smaller white populations than SF, and tend to be less white than their surrounding regions. SF is somewhat of an outlier in that it's generally as white as surrounding counties.
You insist, when specifically comparing municipal ethnic/racial compositions, it is "reasonable compare SF to cities that are most alike." Yet the cities 'most like' San Francisco in the specific context of a discussion about ethnic/racial composition are not New York or Houston, but rather, other West Coast cities which, relative to the nation, also have small black populations but large Asian and Latino populations.

SF is whiter than LA, San Jose, Oakland, Long Beach and Fresno. It is less white than Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, and San Diego. That puts SF in the middle of the pack of large West Coast municipalities, not at the top nor the bottom, when it comes to the percentage of residents who are white.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
The US has a very anti-white agenda these days (primarily male) via television, newspapers, movies, politicians, school teachers, laws etc. Many of our problems (past and present) are blamed on whitey and there seems to be a celebration that our country is becoming less European. I know that we are taught and programmed to never ever! ever! ever! be pro European (racist), but to be pro everything else (diversity), but has our country improved because of this?
Whaaaaaat?

May I ask where you get your information from, and if you've observed the reality of where you live?

Out of curiosity, may I also ask you who the head cheeses are where you work?

If there's anyone in the US government that is anti-European, it's the conservatives who DON'T want European-model social services/healthcare/education for the American people.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Whaaaaaat?

May I ask where you get your information from, and if you've observed the reality of where you live?

Out of curiosity, may I also ask you who the head cheeses are where you work?

If there's anyone in the US government that is anti-European, it's the conservatives who DON'T want European-model social services/healthcare/education for the American people.
I don't think he was referring to European polices but people of European decent...white people.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 10:34 PM
RumbleFish RumbleFish is offline
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Whaaaaaat?

May I ask where you get your information from, and if you've observed the reality of where you live?

Out of curiosity, may I also ask you who the head cheeses are where you work?

If there's anyone in the US government that is anti-European, it's the conservatives who DON'T want European-model social services/healthcare/education for the American people.
Think about the small group of people that we are not allowed to criticize or question, run the banks, the media and who are by far the biggest contributors to our politicians (both parties) who they themselves have stated they are a separate race....from there we can start talking reality. Please do not give me a Pavlov dog racist accusation please. Thank you
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't see the inconsistency. I'm saying it's more reasonable to compare SF to cities that are most alike- the LA and NYC and DC type places. Big, rich, cosmopolitan cities with lots of immigrants and nonwhites. These cities, generally speaking, have smaller white populations than SF, and tend to be less white than their surrounding regions. SF is somewhat of an outlier in that it's generally as white as surrounding counties.

I don't think city boundaries usually play a significant role in relative diversity amongst similar cities. If you shrank NYC to the core neighborhoods, or expanded it somewhat outward, the racial balance wouldn't change much. It isn't like Hudson County/Essex County and other inner suburban areas would make NYC whiter, and it isn't like reducing NYC to Manhattan and adjacent areas would make a big difference either. I think LA would be about the same too. If you expanded SF down the peninsula somewhat, I doubt that would make a big difference either.

I don't think it's reasonable to judge relative diversity or whiteness in SF by comparing to suburban Columbus or suburban Indianapolis, as these are sprawly, heavily white metro areas with little immigration, and much smaller than that of the SF area. One would expect lots of whites in some suburban area in Indiana; the same isn't necessarily true in an urban area in California.

But were talking about a single city, not the surrounding regions. I think we can just say that San Francisco has a very unique environment for a city of its stature and leave it at that. The black culture and influence that exists in cities of its celebrity is more or less confined to Oakland across the bay.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
SF is whiter than LA, San Jose, Oakland, Long Beach and Fresno. It is less white than Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, and San Diego. That puts SF in the middle of the pack of large West Coast municipalities, not at the top nor the bottom, when it comes to the percentage of residents who are white.
Nitpicking, but SF is whiter than Sacramento. To be less white than Portland, Seattle, or even SD is not that hard.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2015, 11:36 PM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
You insist, when specifically comparing municipal ethnic/racial compositions, it is "reasonable compare SF to cities that are most alike." Yet the cities 'most like' San Francisco in the specific context of a discussion about ethnic/racial composition are not New York or Houston, but rather, other West Coast cities which, relative to the nation, also have small black populations but large Asian and Latino populations.

SF is whiter than LA, San Jose, Oakland, Long Beach and Fresno. It is less white than Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, and San Diego. That puts SF in the middle of the pack of large West Coast municipalities, not at the top nor the bottom, when it comes to the percentage of residents who are white.
San Francisco is very unique. It and some of the immediate surrounding areas (Oakland, Berkley, etc...) fit in with each other like NYC boroughs in some respects but are not municipally connected like New York's sections, and thus skew and create a different picture of the area's makeup and ethnic fabric.

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I don't think he was referring to European polices but people of European decent...white people.
Bingo.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2015, 8:03 AM
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...not to be a stereotyping prick but Salt Lake City is surprisingly low on the list).
Salt Lake City has a sizable, and growing, Hispanic population - as 22% of the population identifies as such.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2015, 1:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
Think about the small group of people that we are not allowed to criticize or question, run the banks, the media and who are by far the biggest contributors to our politicians (both parties) who they themselves have stated they are a separate race....
Ah, understood.

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Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
Please do not give me a Pavlov dog racist accusation please. Thank you
I wasn't giving a Pavlov dog racist accusation. To me, someone saying that white people are being persecuted in the US is equivalent to saying that Christians are being persecuted in the US---both are not true.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2015, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I don't think he was referring to European polices but people of European decent...white people.
See my response to RumbleFish above.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2015, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
Most of those cities on that list either aren't major cities or are even suburbs.
Are you blind?

San Diego, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Louisville, Austin, Nashville, Denver, Oklahoma City, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Tuscon, Tulsa, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Albuquerque, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Raleigh, Kansas City, Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News, Mobile, Charlotte, Buffalo, Syracuse, Tampa, Little Rock, Dayton, Albany, Akron, Toledo, Anchorage, Omaha, Des Moines, Boise, Salt Lake City, Lexington, Reno, High Point/Winston Salem, Fort Lauderdale, etc...

Those are all cities that are major nationally or on a state level, and they're all whiter than SF. More than a few of them are FAR whiter than SF. There's a minority of big cities in the country that are less white than SF, and a majority that are more white, yet somehow SF is "extra white"? Bullshit. The stats speak for themselves, no matter what you want to desperately believe.

For the record, I included non-major cities in the list too (i listed probably over 90% of all cities in the US with over 100k people that are more white than SF), just so I could drive home the point of how stupid it is to consider SF as "extra white" by US standards. More like extra "not-white", really.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't think this is a reasonable response. These aren't major cities, and don't have comparable city boundaries.

Cities that one could reasonably compare to SF would probably be LA, NYC, Chicago, Boston, Philly, DC, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami and the like. The biggest and most important U.S. cities.
And why exactly are those the only cities one can compare SF to? Because they're ones that you cherry-picked to support your argument?

Guess what? There are more cities in the US that are more white than SF than there are cities that are less white. You're comparing SF to some of the least white big cities in the nation, ignoring the much larger number of more white cities, and then claiming that it means SF is extra white for a US city.

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Among these probably only Boston is as white, and even Boston is notably more nonwhite than SF in terms of regional context (Boston region is lily white compared to Bay Area).
What the hell is this even supposed to mean? Boston is more nonwhite than SF in a "regional context?" You have some interesting logic going on in your head to try and prove your theory of SF being extra white. Here's some context for you: Boston and the Boston metro are both more white than SF and the SF metro. And in case you forgot, SF is not the sole center city of it's metro. Neighboring Oakland is also less white than Boston (by an even larger degree than SF is, of course). So is San Jose.

Last edited by tech12; Jun 18, 2015 at 8:37 PM.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2015, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
If you weren't paying attention, MAYBE Pico Rivera might look like the typical SoCal suburb because of the shopping centers that were put in through redevelopment in the last 15-20 years or so of what used to be factories and an old GM plant.
Nope, it was a Ford plant.

GM's LA area plants were in South Gate and Van Nuys.

Not that it changes your argument... I just couldn't resist setting the facts straight (as an auto history buff, it was easy.)
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  #74  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2015, 12:01 AM
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Nope, it was a Ford plant.

GM's LA area plants were in South Gate and Van Nuys.

Not that it changes your argument... I just couldn't resist setting the facts straight (as an auto history buff, it was easy.)
My bad! I knew it wasn't a Chrysler plant, that's for sure.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2015, 12:36 AM
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And why exactly are those the only cities one can compare SF to? Because they're ones that you cherry-picked to support your argument?
Yeah, basically. I would compare SF to similar cities, not sprawlburbs in Indiana. I would compare SF to the same cities that San Franciscans would regard as their peer cities. Probably NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston, Philly and DC. Those are the same cities typically considered the "prime" U.S. cities, and sometimes Sunbelt places like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta and Miami are included. I don't think too many people are comparing SF to Columbus or Louisville or something.

The fact is that SF is the second whitest major U.S. city, just slightly behind Boston, and has the smallest black/hispanic share of any major U.S city. I think that's somewhat notable, especially in the context of a region and state that is heavily nonwhite (and Boston is in an extremely white region). I don't think it's a huge deal, but it isn't nothing either.
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What the hell is this even supposed to mean? Boston is more nonwhite than SF in a "regional context?"
Obviously context matters. A 90% black neighborhood in Maine is more notable than a 90% black neighborhood in Detroit or Delta Mississippi. A family of Hasidics is more notable in Kansas than Brooklyn. The fact is that SF doesn't have the same racial differences with its region, as seen in every other major U.S. metro, is, to me, notable. It's a demographic outlier in this context.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2015, 1:17 AM
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The fact is that SF is the second whitest major U.S. city
That's not a fact, that is merely the opinion you feel should be accepted as fact, and which has you inventing personal definitions of common terms, cherry-picking which minorities count and which don't, and contorting yourself around all kinds of inconvenient facts and apt metrics because they don't support the claim you feel should be true...

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and has the smallest black/hispanic share of any major U.S city.
...and here's a great example of your intellectual gymnastics. Hey, if only we use a personal definition for 'major US city' and arbitrarily exclude the one minority group that just happens to be San Francisco's largest and most notable, then we can make SF seem super white just like I feel it should be!

In a nation with many populous cities that are majority white, San Francisco is only 41.9% non-Hispanic white--which puts the city far down the ranks when we look at the 'whitest' of the most populous US municipalities. Cherry-picking which combinations of minorities count and which groups don't count at all, inventing personal definitions of things like "major US city" to conveniently exclude places like Seattle, and dismissing or ignoring more apt comparisons and metrics in service to a preordained result is an example of the very weakest line of argumentation possible.

Crawford, you are the whitest major city in America. By "whitest" I mean whatever you are, by "major city in America" I mean whatever you are, and by "Crawford" I mean whoever you are. See? I'm proven right!
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  #77  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2015, 1:45 AM
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To be fair (and I really don't care about this either way), the Bay Area CSA is in the "alpha" bunch of major US cities and the City and County of SF is clearly its "Manhattan".

NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly, Boston, DC (including or not Baltimore), DFW, Houston, Miami, Atlanta.

My "cutoff" here is a consecutive Phoenix and Detroit. Surely you won't argue with that? Seattle is on the other side of it.

And yeah of course Asians are a legit minority.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2015, 3:16 AM
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This isn't a metropolitan discussion, however. It is and remains about the city of San Francisco specifically. If we were talking about the CSA there wouldn't be any issue about purported super whiteness.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2015, 3:22 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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Originally Posted by tech12 View Post
Are you blind?

San Diego, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Louisville, Austin, Nashville, Denver, Oklahoma City, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Tuscon, Tulsa, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Albuquerque, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Raleigh, Kansas City, Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News, Mobile, Charlotte, Buffalo, Syracuse, Tampa, Little Rock, Dayton, Albany, Akron, Toledo, Anchorage, Omaha, Des Moines, Boise, Salt Lake City, Lexington, Reno, High Point/Winston Salem, Fort Lauderdale, etc...

Those are all cities that are major nationally or on a state level, and they're all whiter than SF. More than a few of them are FAR whiter than SF. There's a minority of big cities in the country that are less white than SF, and a majority that are more white, yet somehow SF is "extra white"? Bullshit. The stats speak for themselves, no matter what you want to desperately believe.

For the record, I included non-major cities in the list too (i listed probably over 90% of all cities in the US with over 100k people that are more white than SF), just so I could drive home the point of how stupid it is to consider SF as "extra white" by US standards. More like extra "not-white", really.
But the majority on that list are nowhere close to the celebrity and status of San Francisco. The city is on par with places like Istanbul and Rio De Janiero internationally.

In the US, San Francisco is in an elite group. They're like James Harden or Steph Curry while some of those cities are like Austin Rivers. The only ones that compare are in bold and Vegas is only on there because its unique role as a tourist destination.

And I also don't think it's unfair to say that the list was littered with suburbs and minor regional cities.

Last edited by ThePhun1; Jun 19, 2015 at 4:35 AM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2015, 3:50 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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Obviously context matters. A 90% black neighborhood in Maine is more notable than a 90% black neighborhood in Detroit or Delta Mississippi. A family of Hasidics is more notable in Kansas than Brooklyn. The fact is that SF doesn't have the same racial differences with its region, as seen in every other major U.S. metro, is, to me, notable. It's a demographic outlier in this context.
Bingo, my point in this thread exactly.

Also, in some ways non-Hispanic whites is a misnomer. While there's a sizable population of Hispanics from Mexico and Central America, some of these so-called Hispanics are immigrants of descendants of immigrants from Western Europe, Russia, etc... Brazil, though technically not Hispanic in culture, is chock full of them thanks to (racist?) government policies that encouraged European immigration. Another obvious one is Argentina.
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