CHICAGO | General Developments

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Wow, the West Loop is becoming quite the place. But I'm sure it's still just a fad, right SamintheLoop?

Don't be silly, the West Loop is a yokel backwater which will never justify international investment or Fortune 500 headquarters. It certainly will never become a direct Westward extension of the Loop. Anyone who is moving there is just a poser phony hipster searching for crumbs of authenticity under the reel to reel tape deck at Au Cheval!

[Mr Downtown]

Mr D's personal opinions regarding zoning and the absurd way it is abused in Chicago are not really the point. But he is trained in the law, and therefore wishes to know more when someone writes

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I would love to see a massive court challenge mounted against Aldermanic prerogative in general.

So I ask again: what legal basis do you think could challenge legislation enacted by duly elected officials?

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Don't be silly, the West Loop is a yokel backwater which will never justify international investment or Fortune 500 headquarters. It certainly will never become a direct Westward extension of the Loop. Anyone who is moving there is just a poser phony hipster searching for crumbs of authenticity under the reel to reel tape deck at Au Cheval!

Lol. You guys are too much. I never stated anything against continued development west of the expressway....certainly not residential development or some mixed-use and in general being a westward expansion of greater downtown. That's all stuff you wrongly imagined I argued post hoc.

My sole argument - which I still hold more than ever - is that it does not make any sense whatsoever for corporate employers to locate thousands - let alone tens of thousands - of office jobs in the Fulton Market/Far West Loop area. Unless there is some substantial mass transit infrastructure/commuter rail hubs in the neighborhood that I haven't discovered, yet, I'm right about that. This trend of employers locating large offices here (especially but certainly not exclusively in faux-historical inauthentic cheap new construction) is indeed a fashion - and is a mistake on the part of perceived 'savvy' decision/makers - such as Google, McDonald's and others - will be seen in the future - whether in 5 years, or 15 years - as this mistake that it is. Guys - the infrastructure ($billions needed) is not going to follow. Just watch.

Oh - and one other thing - that clown that just signed on for a $1k+/psf condo in the West Loop is getting taken. That's just silly, and he/she will lose a lot of cash on that move....

[Mr Downtown]

^Yup. I'm reminded of the "inexorable" move of offices to North Michigan back in the 1970s and 80s. Which ended with Mag Mile office space turned into hotel rooms and condos.

Developers are in the game of buying cheap and selling high. That's an easier game to play in Chicago, with its lack of any planning, than in most big cities. But it doesn't mean that tenants will go where the fundamental factors of location—like how their people get to work—are missing.

[the urban politician]

^ Yet River North real estate is some of the highest priced residential real estate in the city, so you are wrong.

It also has the lowest office vacancy rate in the city.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Yet River North real estate is some of the highest priced residential real estate in the city, so you are wrong.

It also has the lowest office vacancy rate in the city.

Yeah, but the River North submarket includes the goliath Merchandise Mart, which is within easy walking distance of all L lines and Metra stops (unlike buildings off the Mag Mile).

I honestly don't think the transit situation in West Loop is that bad, though. Downtown Manhattan manages to thrive as a CBD despite having no direct access to suburban commuter rail (for the sake of argument, let's not call Newark, Jersey City et al "suburban"). Cambridge's Kendall Square also manages to thrive as a midrise office district without a full set of suburban connections. Likewise for many satellite office districts around DC.

Face it, we have a scarcity of land around the Loop transit hub and future office development will increasingly be pushed to more outlying spots like Fulton Market and North Branch.

[Mr Downtown]

North Michigan Avenue is not River North.

From Crain's Jan. 9, 2017:

River North maintained the lowest vacancy among all downtown submarkets, at 7.7 percent, down from 7.8 percent in the previous period. North Michigan Avenue's vacancy stayed the highest, at 13.9 percent, down from 13.8 percent one quarter earlier.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I honestly don't think the transit situation in West Loop is that bad, though. Downtown Manhattan manages to thrive as a CBD despite having no direct access to suburban commuter rail (for the sake of argument, let's not call Newark, Jersey City et al "suburban"). ...

Face it, we have a scarcity of land around the Loop transit hub and future office development will increasingly be pushed to more outlying spots like Fulton Market and North Branch.

Plus, the things luring tenants to Fulton today are all but absent in the Loop; it's not a close decision between the two areas because they are so starkly different. Fulton has become a sort of new urban paradigm for Chicago commercial districts, and assuming this won't get eroded by being a victim of its own success, certain kinds of companies will continue to desire it. The key thing that hopefully keeps it from failing the way that the North Michigan office district idea did is access -- in addition to being next to the Kennedy, the commuter stations are much closer than North Michigan, and there are a variety of low-density east-west streets for accessing the stations. On-demand vehicles (autonomous or not) could make access to the stations even less of an issue; heck, some of these are the very companies likely to conjure up some kind of privately-owned, on-demand fleet of autonomous, level-boarding, non-belching electric mini buses offered to corporate staffs throughout the neighborhood for access to the stations. One of them will probably then also come up with a plan for intelligently re-signalizing the intersections while feasting on oysters and beer at the Publican, or something.

[SolarWind]

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[SolarWind]

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[SolarWind]

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[SolarWind]

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[SolarWind]

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[SolarWind]

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[SolarWind]

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[k1052]

I was on the selection group for new office space when our west loop lease was up a couple years ago. We looked at River North and from Union it was 0.9 to 1.3 miles for anything we'd lease. Illinois Center was about 1.3 miles. Our existing west loop office was 0.6 miles. We opted for Fulton Market space under a mile. Nobody is unhappy with the location and we have a a mix of 50/50 city suburban dwellers. There was nearly an armed revolt when word got out that we had even looked at IC or parts of River North/North Michigan.

The idea that this is not a viable office district seems suspect when considered against demand and my practical experience.

[marothisu]

I posted this, or part of it, in the Economic thread, but I think it's important for here too since it has impact on development:

March 2017 unemployment data (preliminary numbers) are out and the unemployment rate of the city is now down to 4.5%, which is a decrease of 1.7% since January. This is now tied for the LOWEST unemployment rate in the city (with October 2006) since as far back as I can see this data which is January 1990. The number of unemployed persons is the 2nd lowest since January 1990 (October 2006 is the lowest). This rate now puts Chicago at a lower unemployment rate as Los Angeles and the same as Dallas. Houston of course is higher than Chicago.


The number of employed persons is down compared to summer 2016, but is increasing at a rate right now which we might get back to those levels within a few months. However, the number of employed persons is still 40,000 more than what it was in October 2006 and around the same levels as 1999.

Number of people in the labor force is down since summer 2016 and more at 2012 levels, but still higher than 2006 numbers.


The MSA has an unemployment rate of 4.5% too which is lowest since December 2006. Lowest number of unemployed persons since then too. Number of employed persons and in labor force around the same as it was in late 2006 too.


I think this is important. I've done a lot of data crunching of ACS numbers and these numbers, and basically it looks as if the people who didn't have jobs or couldn't find good enough jobs are leaving and are being replaced with people with maybe better jobs. Will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months because the rate has decreased so rapidly so far this year.

[Halsted & Villagio]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I posted this, or part of it, in the Economic thread, but I think it's important for here too since it has impact on development:

March 2017 unemployment data (preliminary numbers) are out and the unemployment rate of the city is now down to 4.5%, which is a decrease of 1.7% since January. This is now tied for the LOWEST unemployment rate in the city (with October 2006) since as far back as I can see this data which is January 1990. The number of unemployed persons is the 2nd lowest since January 1990 (October 2006 is the lowest). This rate now puts Chicago at a lower unemployment rate as Los Angeles and the same as Dallas. Houston of course is higher than Chicago.


The number of employed persons is down compared to summer 2016, but is increasing at a rate right now which we might get back to those levels within a few months. However, the number of employed persons is still 40,000 more than what it was in October 2006 and around the same levels as 1999.

Number of people in the labor force is down since summer 2016 and more at 2012 levels, but still higher than 2006 numbers.


The MSA has an unemployment rate of 4.5% too which is lowest since December 2006. Lowest number of unemployed persons since then too. Number of employed persons and in labor force around the same as it was in late 2006 too.


I think this is important. I've done a lot of data crunching of ACS numbers and these numbers, and basically it looks as if the people who didn't have jobs or couldn't find good enough jobs are leaving and are being replaced with people with maybe better jobs. Will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months because the rate has decreased so rapidly so far this year.

Outstanding report.... and even better news ..................... Thanks marothisu

[maru2501]

LDS meeting house is to have a steeple? I forget

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

So I ask again: what legal basis do you think could challenge legislation enacted by duly elected officials?

Unequal application of the law. Are dollar stores and wig shops being blocked in Logan Square the same as they are in South Shore? Are businesses in other neighborhoods accused of attracting loiterers? (I've done my share of loitering on north side streets. Why aren't those streets being rezoned?)
Why does it cost more to start a business in a poor neighborhood than a rich neighborhood? Can Aldermen prove that allowing a dollar store to open prevents a more desireable business from opening? Given retail vacancies I doubt it.

What is most telling to me is Ald. Hairston's statement that she has other options available to her but they're too hard to execute. It's much easier for her to just rezone the whole street than to actually do her job.