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  #101  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 8:21 PM
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That'd be cool.... but it needs to have lasers
Dunno--ever since Dr Evil cornered the market on sharks with frickin' laser beams, you might have a difficult time getting them for the train service....
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  #102  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 8:25 PM
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So we should have two highways? Instead of one? One for industry, and one for commuters? Please. Makes no sense. If anything, force industry to use rail as much as possible. But that doesn't work here. We would need to vastly add more rails in and around the city. Its rather inconvenient to ask to change methods of shipping in a short distance.

I hate sprawl as much as the average next forumer here... but this ring road is clearly needed in Edmonton. Our inner city roads are clogged with trucks and such. This will help alleviate alot of that.
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  #103  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by feepa View Post
So we should have two highways? Instead of one? One for industry, and one for commuters? Please. Makes no sense. If anything, force industry to use rail as much as possible. But that doesn't work here. We would need to vastly add more rails in and around the city. Its rather inconvenient to ask to change methods of shipping in a short distance.
Not exactly what I was saying, if you mean to say BUILD two seperate highways. Rather, dedicated lanes or entire existing highways to truck traffic only. For the rail option, they have added a ton of track in the United States and it is showing signs of huge improvement in freight rail down there. I think it is premature to say that you NEED highway to move goods, based on current trends in shipping.

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I hate sprawl as much as the average next forumer here... but this ring road is clearly needed in Edmonton. Our inner city roads are clogged with trucks and such. This will help alleviate alot of that.
Instead of your roads being clogged with trucks they will be clogged with more cars. That is the basic truth of the matter. The Ring Road is not clearly needed and it never will be.
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  #104  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris2k7 View Post
IKAN: Okay, be that way. If you don't want to even bother looking at the facts, that's fine by me.
I guess my humour was too subtle but don't worry, I'm looking at the facts as we speak. As much as I'm happy to see this ring road open up, that doesn't mean I'm putting the blinders on.
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  #105  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 8:36 PM
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Don't allow both commuters and industry onto the same road. Better yet, make the industry pay for a lot of it. I agree that Edmonton has some challenges that seperate it from Calgary.
I'd LOVE to see a distribution an shipping system that uses depots and rail lines to move goods between the two cities, as the heavy truck traffic is one of the major issues on the QE2. Unfortunately, I and everyone else who buys materials knows that you can get a gearbox from the Leduc manufacting plant to Calgary in 4 hours... and society today expects thing to happen now, not when the train comes in. I hate truck traffic... so wasteful, damaging and costly.

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Obviously people are going to want to live in the suburbs. However, growth just for the sake of it is not a positive. When you are experiencing a growing infrastructure deficit and a declining quality of life for most residents, it's better off to be stagnant or grow more slowly.
I'm glad you see it that way, and I agree that this is what we are seeing right now in terms of declining quality of life. A ring road certainly is not going to fix that, if anything it enables the types of things that cause that phenomina.

What I would worry about is infrastructure getting so crowded and dilapidated that it also affects peoples' quality of life.... and I'm not just talking about potholes. I see a ring road as a way to keep traffic that doesn't need to be in the city, out of the city. That, coupled with REAL transit growth, and the promotion of living on as small a footprint as possible is the way to deal with the transportation issues in the city. Most people I talk to about this end up calling me a dirty hippie
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  #106  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by IKAN104 View Post
I guess my humour was too subtle but don't worry, I'm looking at the facts as we speak. As much as I'm happy to see this ring road open up, that doesn't mean I'm putting the blinders on. Honestly, what you're saying makes a lot of sense.
Sorry, I had missed the humour. I take planning very seriously ('cause I'm a planning student) to the point of ideology.

I'm just happy to see people questioning the mainstream thinking. Which isn't too surprising given this site. Ring roads are as much a double-edged sword as the industrial sprawl going up around Edmonton.

240: I agree with you on your latest points, though I will continue to maintain a bit of skepticism about the purpose of the ring roads (because politics says that they are mainly for commuters, not truck traffic).
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  #107  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris2k7 View Post
Sorry, I had missed the humour. I take planning very seriously ('cause I'm a planning student) to the point of ideology.

I'm just happy to see people questioning the mainstream thinking. Which isn't too surprising given this site. Ring roads are as much a double-edged sword as the industrial sprawl going up around Edmonton.

240: I agree with you on your latest points, though I will continue to maintain a bit of skepticism about the purpose of the ring roads (because politics says that they are mainly for commuters, not truck traffic).
There's nothing wrong with a 201 that removes freight traffic from the trunk system in Calgary, thought realistically that will be a tough sell in this town. It makes a so-called "Blue Thunder" commuter rail system in Calgary all the more important, but who am I to suggest a solution to an obvious problem?
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  #108  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 9:15 PM
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I drive the Henday every weekend for my part time job and I seriously get to South Edmonton Common from the west end in around 10 minutes. It's great. For an interchange this size (Edmonton standards), it didn't seem confusing at all either as I saw them putting up the signs for the new section that opened today.

The one thing that I don't understand about the city of Edmonton (or cities who build ring roads in general) is this. If the city wants to prevent sprawl while allowing inner-city density, why don't they simply disallow building beyond the ring road. For example, not selling the land they own for subdivisions, etc. I'm already seeing new communities on the outskirts of the Henday popping out.

People in this city bitch and moan about tax increases, how more sprawl means more transit service is needed, etc. Well if the city simply said no to sprawl then none of this would be a problem. If the city is selling land so new subdivisions can be built, why not just restrict it? They'd lose the revenue from one perspective, but gain it in another as inner-city land would become more valuable (eg. City Centre Airport), and as a result, transit service could be improved within the city instead of always having to chase the new suburban developments.

That way the ring road can actually be a way of getting around the outskirts of the city, instead of having to worry about a second ring road that I guarantee people will be talking about in 50 years.
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  #109  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris2k7 View Post
Sorry, I had missed the humour. I take planning very seriously ('cause I'm a planning student) to the point of ideology.
I can't wait until you're old enough to replace ideology with realism.
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  #110  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 9:19 PM
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I can't wait until you're old enough to replace ideology with realism.
Wait all you want, tovarishch. It's not a pretty sight. It's about when you realise that you have a ticket on the ferry and you don't begrudge the trip.
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  #111  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by edmontonoilers89 View Post
I drive the Henday every weekend for my part time job and I seriously get to South Edmonton Common from the west end in around 10 minutes. It's great. For an interchange this size (Edmonton standards), it didn't seem confusing at all either as I saw them putting up the signs for the new section that opened today.

The one thing that I don't understand about the city of Edmonton (or cities who build ring roads in general) is this. If the city wants to prevent sprawl while allowing inner-city density, why don't they simply disallow building beyond the ring road. For example, not selling the land they own for subdivisions, etc. I'm already seeing new communities on the outskirts of the Henday popping out.

People in this city bitch and moan about tax increases, how more sprawl means more transit service is needed, etc. Well if the city simply said no to sprawl then none of this would be a problem. If the city is selling land so new subdivisions can be built, why not just restrict it? They'd lose the revenue from one perspective, but gain it in another as inner-city land would become more valuable (eg. City Centre Airport), and as a result, transit service could be improved within the city instead of always having to chase the new suburban developments.

That way the ring road can actually be a way of getting around the outskirts of the city, instead of having to worry about a second ring road that I guarantee people will be talking about in 50 years.
I think actually this is one of the things www.focusedmonton.ca will be looking at when developing the municipal plan. But using the AHD as limit doesnt stop bordering counties to develop right next to the border. This region needs some sort of amalgamation.
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  #112  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 3:54 PM
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Test drove the Henday SE last night.. very impressed and so glad that theres no traffic lights. What would normally take me about 10 minutes to get from 111 st to 50 St on 23rd Ave, only took me 2.5 minutes. Cruising along at 115 km past South Common was sweet and not having to deal with the 23rd ave intersection was sweeter. I also like how you can see almost the whole city on some sections of the freeway, particularly going westbound around South Common, where the grading is much higher. Anyway, two thumbs up
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  #113  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 4:23 AM
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I think we all agree henday should be 110km/h at least. Damn is 100 slow on a road as straight as this!
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  #114  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 4:33 AM
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I think we all agree henday should be 110km/h at least. Damn is 100 slow on a road as straight as this!
I haven't seen a single person go 100 on it so far though. I routinely go 120 and I see cars passing me all the time.

Hell, does anyone even go 80 on the Whitemud?

The only thing that scares me is getting a ticket on one of those two roads going 20 over the limit when it's really no big deal at all.
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  #115  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 8:38 PM
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they need to add signange on highway 216 south indicating that anthony henday is ahead especially at the whitemud exit, there is still a sign telling people to take whitemud to get the airport...there are no signs until you pass the whitemud exit
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  #116  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 10:34 PM
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  #117  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bagould
http://www.thegatewayonline.ca/new-e...1025-1179.html

New, expanded Henday just the freeway to the congestion zone

The Gateway
Brian Gould, Opinion Writer
Thursday, 25 October 2007


A sinister threat to Edmonton’s future opened earlier this week, though apparently everybody’s been too busy celebrating to notice. The previous sections of Anthony Henday Drive were limited in effect, but by linking them from Yellowhead to Yellowhead, it will accelerate sprawl, automobile traffic, and driving distances to frightening levels. Despite this, almost everyone is welcoming this freeway with open arms.

There’s been some controversy over the name—however, it’s quite appropriate. Anthony Henday was, after all, a convicted smuggler, and reincarnating him as a roadway isn’t effective rehabilitation. Likewise, Anthony Henday Drive will smuggle jobs, developments, residents, and funding out of Edmonton, and we’ll only see the full scope of this damage after it has already been done.

For an explorer with such a vast land to map, Henday was a horrible cartographer. The Hudson’s Bay Company committee would later record, “We apprehend Henday is not very expert in making Drafts with Accuracy or keeping a just Reckoning of distance other than by guess.” But despite his unsuitability for the job, Henday was unleashed on the Prairies, charged with encouraging natives to make the long journey from central Alberta to a trading post on Hudson’s Bay.

Seven years after its completion, Henday’s mission was deemed a failure. It did, however, teach the company that in order to effectively trade and co-operate with their partners, they would be better off setting up where the population already was, rather than remaining isolated and encouraging long-distance travel. It was this realization that resulted in the creation of Fort Edmonton in the first place.

More recent history shows what ring roads will do to a city. Finished in 1964, Washington’s 103km Capital Beltway was originally hailed as a “huge wedding ring for the metropolitan area” and an efficient truck bypass. The resulting road is neither, with DC-proper’s population in continual decline and later expansion to eight lanes failing to relieve chronic and crippling congestion. The damage has been so intense that “outside the beltway” is now synonymous with suburban sprawl, and the road is a symbol for class segregation.

But we seem to have ignored the impact of these types of roads, and are instead concentrating on how every other Canadian prairie city has one. Winnipeg, Regina, and Saskatoon all have them, Calgary’s building one, and Grande Prairie’s planning one too. And when fully open, the Henday will be the envy of Moose Jaw. We’re even planning a second one for thirty years hence, which doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in the Henday solving our transportation problems.

The last thing Edmonton needs is another barrier to regional co-operation, but the Henday will be just that. With fewer interchanges and crossings than Whitemud Drive, the Henday will be a barrier even to cars, but more importantly, it will be essentially impenetrable to pedestrians and bicycles. With bridges 16 blocks apart and huge swaths of empty land on either side, the distances are immense, and there’s no reason to cross to more useless suburbia on the other side anyway. It’s also rather effective as a giant moat—though given the choice between four lanes of traffic screaming by at 120km per hour and a few snapping crocodiles, I’ll take the crocs.

Alarmingly, one frequent argument is that because we’ve removed traffic lights, this is actually a win for the environment. Even if it wasn’t a disaster just building it, that would only be true if we could somehow keep travel distances constant. Unfortunately, without incredibly involved policies like tolls or rationing, it’s nowhere near possible.

Studies prove that building roads to relieve congestion only results in more traffic in the long term—look no further than Anthony Henday Drive at Stony Plain Road. Quicker car trips will only lead to people driving longer distances, and more room for more cars will, unsurprisingly, mean more cars.

This whole “we have to build the freeway to save the environment” argument sounds very much like Seinfeld’s “we have to have sex to save the friendship” approach. Maybe that’s what feels so wrong about all of this: next thing you know, we’ll be taking advice from George and banning “front-first” parallel parking, or copying Kramer’s Adopt-a-Highway antics. Then again, maybe what the Henday really needs is double-wide comfort lanes.
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  #118  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 1:46 AM
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So I just test-drove the new stretch of highway, and must say was pleased. Very smooth sailing, ample signage, and some decent views of the downtown (not that this is all that important, but a bonus none the less, lol). I just hope that there is room to expand the highway to six lanes from four in the future (if it hasn't already been mentioned yet).

It's just too bad they couldn't have done this right the first time round on the southwestern leg; oh well.

Last edited by Greco Roman; Oct 26, 2007 at 2:07 PM.
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  #119  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 4:31 AM
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^if i recall all of AHD is phased to be 4 lanes a side....8 total.
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  #120  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2007, 5:00 AM
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^if i recall all of AHD is phased to be 4 lanes a side....8 total.
Correct. Both 216 and 201 have that as long run plan, though it will be a long time before it gets done, and even then I'd imagine it would be only done in parts that have demand for it. I don't forsee the traffic levels being consistent enough along the entire loop to force doing it all.
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