Washington Post: Nonprofit group proposes merging St. Louis city with county

[Centropolis]

Jim Salter | AP
January 28 at 3:43 PM


“ST. LOUIS — A nonprofit group on Monday revealed its plan to merge St. Louis city and county into what would become the nation’s 10th-largest city.”

“Combining with the county would give St. Louis 1.3 million residents.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.d74b5be7354a

[C.]

One day I'm going to form a non-profit and advocate all municipalities and school districts in the state consolidate to the county level. Maybe I'll get some press, too.

Good for St. Louis, I guess.

[dc_denizen]

Do it!

Any while were at it

Los Angeles merges with la county - 10 million people in LA city
Chicago merges with cook county - 5.5 million people in Chicago city
New Jersey’s Hudson River counties merge - new city of 3.5 million people

[xzmattzx]

What would happen if all three of Delaware's counties merged and became a city?

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by C.

One day I'm going to form a non-profit and advocate all municipalities and school districts in the state consolidate to the county level. Maybe I'll get some press, too.

Good for St. Louis, I guess.

The thing is though that the players supporting this make it more than just a pipe dream.

St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson is onboard, and so is St. Louis County Executive Steve Stenger. Neither would be able to rally enough local politicians who don't want their fiefdoms taken away, even if they're other Democrats, but Rex Sinquefield, a prominent Republican in Missouri politics, is also pushing this. He's previously been involved in another statewide ballot initiative that blocked Missouri cities not named St. Louis and Kansas City from having a local earnings tax. Additionally, the same initiative forces St. Louis and Kansas City to put the tax issue up to voters every so often.

The fact that Sinquefield is getting involved means they might be able to put together the campaign necessary to get blood red Missouri voters to think that empowering blue St. Louis is a good thing.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

What would happen if all three of Delaware's counties merged and became a city?

City-state, obviously.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Emprise du Lion

The thing is though that the players supporting this make it more than just a pipe dream.

St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson is onboard, and so is St. Louis County Executive Steve Stenger. Neither would be able to rally enough local politicians who don't want their fiefdoms taken away, even if they're other Democrats, but Rex Sinquefield, a prominent Republican in Missouri politics, is also pushing this. He's previously been involved in another statewide ballot initiative that blocked Missouri cities not named St. Louis and Kansas City from having a local earnings tax. Additionally, the same initiative forces St. Louis and Kansas City to put the tax issue up to voters every so often.

The fact that Sinquefield is getting involved means they might be able to put together the campaign necessary to get blood red Missouri voters to think that empowering blue St. Louis is a good thing.

yeah, the WaPo article is a bit understated.

“St. Louis city and county: Divorced in 1876. Remarried in 2020?”

By Jeremy Kohler, David Hunn and Celeste Bott St. Louis Post-Dispatch Jan 7, 2019

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...6d92e9032.html

“the group is preparing ballot language for a constitutional amendment that would superimpose a new type of government — a metro city — over the city and county.”

[hauntedheadnc]

When a city gets so large that it takes up the vast majority of the county, what's the point of maintaining two separate governments? What does Cook County government even do that couldn't be picked up by Chicago? Likewise, in North Carolina there is only a tiny ring of property in Mecklenburg County that isn't already a part of Charlotte, so what's the point? Why not consolidate?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

When a city gets so large that it takes up the vast majority of the county, what's the point of maintaining two separate governments? What does Cook County government even do that couldn't be picked up by Chicago?

chicago does not make up the vast majority of cook county, not by population or land area.


category: the city / cook county

population: 2,716,450 people / 5,211,263 people = 52.1%

land area: 227 sq. miles / 945 sq. miles = 24.0%



and chicago and cook county will never consolidate into a single city/county metro government in any of our lifetimes.

suburbanites like their independent school districts WAY too much. it's like the NRA and guns, "from our cold dead hands"...........

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

chicago does not make up the vast majority of cook county, not by population or land area.


population: 2,716,450/5,211,263 people = 52.1%

land area: 227 sq. miles/945 sq. miles = 24.0%



and chicago and cook county will never consolidate into a single city/county metro government in any of our lifetimes.

Ah. Well, then by all means carry on. Sorry to disturb you.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Ah. Well, then by all means carry on. Sorry to disturb you.

i wasn't disturbed, just correcting your misstatement, not a big deal at all.

chicago is a pretty beastly city by US standards, but cook county is an even beastlier county.

cook's 945 sq. miles are more populous than 28 states in our nation.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i wasn't disturbed, just correcting your misstatement, not a big deal at all.

chicago is a pretty beastly city by US standards, but cook county is an even beastlier county.

cook's 945 sq. miles are more populous than 28 states in our nation.

How much of Cook County remains rural or unincorporated? I suppose the perception from the outside is the same with all major urban counties -- that the city either fills it, or the city and dozens of little municipal entities in the suburbs fill it up and don't leave a whole lot for the county itself to do as a govermental body.

There's also the way that counties in different parts of the country perform different duties. It's my understanding that up north, for example, counties don't really do anything at all. It's all handled by cities, towns, townships, or villages. Meanwhile, here in the South, counties do everything for everyone living beyond incorporated municipal borders. They provide law enforcement, schools, libraries, parks, and everything else. What is it that the government body of Cook County actually does, and who does it do that for?

Interestingly enough, when I cited Chicago and Charlotte, I looked up Charlotte and found that it doesn't take up as much of Mecklenburg County as I had thought. Mecklenburg County is 546 square miles, of which Charlotte takes up 305 square miles. Mecklenburg has a population of 1,076,837, of which Charlotte takes up 859,035. Look at it on a map though, and it would appear there's only a tiny collar of land around the edges of the county not already consumed by the city limits of Charlotte. Charlotte and Mecklenburg have consolidated some services like the schools, but even with that much land and that much population outside the city of Charlotte, a much better case could be made for full consolidation than could be made for Chicago-Cook County.

Now educate me on this thing called Cook County. I crave knowledge.

[the urban politician]

Although I do think redundant Government bodies are unnecessary, Cook County does do a decent amount, actually:

1. Records property deed transfers, liens, etc
2. Runs the Sheriff's office, which carries out court orders
3. Assesses property for taxes
4. Runs the Cook County healthcare system, which is essentially the safety net hospital and healthcare system for the region
5. Maintains the Forest Preserve district, which is a huge (possibly among the largest in the nation) collection of preserved natural forests, wetlands, etc etc for the region's recreational use

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

How much of Cook County remains rural or unincorporated?

there's almost no true rural in cook county.

there is barrington hills "horse country" in the far NW corner of the county, but that's not real rural, just rich people pretending to live out in the country on giant 5 acre lots with fields, forests, and horse trails all over the place.

and there's also A LOT of cook county forest preserve land (108 sq. miles, or 11.4% of the county), but again, that's not real rural, just public nature preserve land.

as for municipal incorporation, roughly 97.6% of cook county's population live in one of the county's 135 incorporated municipalities, leaving only 2.4%, or roughly 125,000 people, in unincorporated areas.

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

What is it that the government body of Cook County actually does, and who does it do that for?

from wikipedia:

Board of Commissioners
The Cook County Board of Commissioners is the county's legislative body. It made up of 17 commissioners who are elected by district for four year terms. The county board sets policy and laws for the county regarding property, public health services, public safety, and maintenance of county highways.[2] It is presided over by the County Board President, currently Toni Preckwinkle.

Sheriff
The Cook County Sheriff is the sheriff. All Cook County Sheriff's Deputies have police powers regardless of their particular job function or title. Like other Sheriffs' departments in Illinois, the Sheriff can provide all traditional law-enforcement functions, including county-wide patrol and investigations irrespective of municipal boundaries, even in the city of Chicago, but has traditionally limited its police patrol functions to unincorporated areas of the county.

The Cook County Department of Corrections operates the Cook County Jail, the largest single-site jail in the nation.

State's Attorney
The Cook County State's Attorney handles criminal prosecutions.

Recorder of Deeds
The Cook County Recorder of Deeds records, stores and maintains land records and other official documents in perpetuity for public and private use, facilitating home ownership and mortgage lending. The Office is a statutorily-authorized repository for federal military discharge records (Form DD-214), which are held as private records available only to those authorized by law. The current Cook County Recorder of Deeds is Karen Yarbrough.

Circuit Court
The Circuit Court of Cook County, which is a State agency funded, in part, by Cook County, accepts more than 1.2 million cases each year for filing.[3] The Cook County Juvenile Detention Center, under the authority of the Chief Judge of the State court, is the first juvenile center in the nation and one of the largest in the nation.

Other agencies
The Cook County Public Defender provides legal representation in the areas of felony and misdemeanor criminal cases, delinquency, abuse/neglect, some appeals, post-conviction and traffic (non-petty) cases throughout the county. It is the largest Public Defender System in the United States. It is the largest State Public Defender's office in the country.

The Cook County Public Guardian acts as the guardian of disabled adults, as well as to act as attorneys and guardian ad litem for abused and neglected children in the county.

The Bureau of Health Services administers the county's public health services and is the second largest public health system in the nation. Three hospitals are part of this system: John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County, Provident Hospital, and Oak Forest Hospital of Cook County, along with over 30 clinics.

The Cook County Highway Department is responsible for the design and maintenance of roadways in the county. These thoroughfares are mostly composed of major and minor arterials, with a few local roads. Although the Highway Department was instrumental in designing many of the expressways in the county, today they are under the jurisdiction of the state.

The Cook County Forest Preserves, organized in 1915, is a separate, independent taxing body, but the Cook County Board of Commissioners also acts as its Board of Commissioners. The district is a belt of 69,000 acres (280 km2) of forest reservations surrounding the city of Chicago. The Brookfield Zoo (managed by the Chicago Zoological Society) and the Chicago Botanic Garden (managed by the Chicago Horticultural Society) are located in the forest preserves.

The Cook County Law Library is the second largest county law library in the nation.

Cook County Department of Public Health and the Cook County Medical Examiner's office.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govern...unty,_Illinois


cook county is also the only county in illinois with home rule, so you can look at cook county governmemt as a bit of a "state within a state" situation.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

When a city gets so large that it takes up the vast majority of the county, what's the point of maintaining two separate governments?

I'm just kind of curious what this question has to do with St. Louis and St. Louis County, though? St. Louis is an independent county-equivalent city with a single layer of government, and St. Louis County doesn't have a city anywhere near taking up the whole county. I guess I don't understand, as this isn't a case of duplication of services in the city of St. Louis. Not that there isn't any argument for merging these two, but St. Louis is set up different than most of these cases where you have a big, populous city that is also part of a county.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by LMich

I'm just kind of curious what this question has to do with St. Louis and St. Louis County, though? St. Louis is an independent county-equivalent city with a single layer of government, and St. Louis County doesn't have a city anywhere near taking up the whole county. I guess I don't understand, as this isn't a case of duplication of services in the city of St. Louis. Not that there isn't any argument for merging these two, but St. Louis is set up different than most of these cases where you have a big, populous city that is also part of a county.

So, in addition to home rule, which is an unfamiliar concept to me, we also have some kind of mutant independent city floating around unencumbered of a county? Good God, what kind of a show are you people running out there, anyway?

Give me a county with taxing powers, and cities with taxing powers, and that and that alone any day. Here in NC you have your counties, which have the power to provide all services, and then you have your municipalities, which are also authorized to provide all services. The only confusion you might run into is whether your municipality is a village, town, or city -- the distinction is that an unincorporated area must organize to offer a certain number of city services before being incorporated. The number and type of city services your proposed municipality wants to offer determines whether you'll incorporate as a village, town, or city.

And that's it, and it's simple. Apparently, it's absolute madness out there in the Midwest and up north.

[the urban politician]

Ahhh, yes, Steely, forgot about the Cook County jail and the State's Attorney. The State's Attorney concerns itself with prosecuting all crimes with the exception of corruption, that is...

[LMich]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

So, in addition to home rule, which is an unfamiliar concept to me, we also have some kind of mutant independent city floating around unencumbered of a county? Good God, what kind of a show are you people running out there, anyway?

Give me a county with taxing powers, and cities with taxing powers, and that and that alone any day. Here in NC you have your counties, which have the power to provide all services, and then you have your municipalities, which are also authorized to provide all services. The only confusion you might run into is whether your municipality is a village, town, or city -- the distinction is that an unincorporated area must organize to offer a certain number of city services before being incorporated. The number and type of city services your proposed municipality wants to offer determines whether you'll incorporate as a village, town, or city.

And that's it, and it's simple. Apparently, it's absolute madness out there in the Midwest and up north.

Just north of you guys (Virginia) every incorporate city is an independent city free of its county (incorporated towns are still under the jurisdiction of their respective counties). Independent cities are actually a much more simple way of doing local government.

[eschaton]

The issue with most city-county mergers is they actually leave the incorporated communities alone. Thus, in the case of a St. Louis City/St. Louis County merger, the result would basically be that the new city/county would offer comprehensive services to all of the old City of St. Louis residents, and about 1/3rd of the old St. Louis County residents. The 2/3rds of the county population which lived in cities and villages, however, would still have separate local governments which offered their own services. They'd likely have to have at least two different taxing rates, and people who are in the combined city-county who live somewhere like Clayton would be able to get an equal vote for St. Louis politicians even though they didn't get the full package of city services.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by LMich

Just north of you guys (Virginia) every incorporate city is an independent city free of its county (incorporated towns are still under the jurisdiction of their respective counties). Independent cities are actually a much more simple way of doing local government.

There is only one response to that.