Best revitalizing neighbourhoods to invest in right now?

[AudiA3]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Yep, but you wouldn't know it looking at the crowds in condo sales centres.

My grandfather was German and my "Oma" was Dutch. I was living in Australia and moved back to Burnaby, coincidentally, to look after her after she had a stroke. But she lived in one of those hideous Vancouver specials, so we moved to the north shore a year later - the last German ethnic alcove (Deep Cove specifically).

Who were the majority of the racial groups of people purchasing it at the sales centre?

Marine Gateway is probably my second favourite location because of the Cineplex, T&T Supermarket, Irish pub and Gallery Show Lounge. The only thing that bothers me is the proximity to the Vancouver South Transfer Station and Recycling Depot on 377 West Kent Avenue North, Vancouver. It really stinks, hopefully they can move that somewhere else.

[logan5]

Yeah, neighbourhoods like Brentwood will always lack character. If someone could find out beforehand which neighbourhoods are getting a new OCP, those would be good areas to invest in. Victoria Dr. would be a decent guess. Already there's a decent strip of retail from 33rd to 45th, all's that is needed is increased density to take it to the next level.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

Who were the majority of the racial groups of people purchasing it at the sales centre?

Seriously? 99% Chinese for high rises in most areas. Seylynn Village is the only one I've personally seen that more accurately represented Vancouver's demographics.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Seriously? 99% Chinese for high rises in most areas. Seylynn Village is the only one I've personally seen that more accurately represented Vancouver's demographics.

I think it was a rhetorical question.

As far as Chinese buying up condos, I'm getting the impression that Chinese buyers like being close to a shopping mall, at least judging by how Richmond is developing. People of Euro descent seem to enjoy neighbourhoods with walk-able streets more. Sorry if that sounds racially insensitive.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Yep, but you wouldn't know it looking at the crowds in condo sales centres.

My grandfather was German and my "Oma" was Dutch. I was living in Australia and moved back to Burnaby, coincidentally, to look after her after she had a stroke. But she lived in one of those hideous Vancouver specials, so we moved to the north shore a year later - the last German ethnic alcove (Deep Cove specifically).

Oooohhh... don't mention war or soccer in your household.

I did see a few german flags east of the 2nd narrows last month.

[AudiA3]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Seriously? 99% Chinese for high rises in most areas. Seylynn Village is the only one I've personally seen that more accurately represented Vancouver's demographics.

I think you exaggerate too much by stating 99% Chinese. When I purchased a unit on the day-1 VIP sales event for Brentwood ONE, I think there were only about 50% Chinese buyers. The rest were people from Middle-East, Korea, and a few Caucasians.

Originally Posted by djmk

I did see a few german flags east of the 2nd narrows last month.

hahaha... that could be anybody who was supporting Germany in the World Cup final.. for example, a Chinese friend who cheered for Germany had a German flag attached to his car during the World Cup

[ricedaddy]

I visited the sales center for Strathcona Village (900 E Hastings) last week. Lots of asians. It's like 90% sold considering the project is going to take 3.5 years.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by djmk

Oooohhh... don't mention war or soccer in your household.

The war's ok because that's where they met. Opa moved from Hamburg to the Queen Charlotte Islands in the early 30s, joined the Canadian army for WWII and knocked up Oma while liberating Holland. My mom was born in Amsterdam in 1946, but was refused Dutch citizenship so they went back to Canada.

Luckily for him he could completely hide his German accent, much like how I stopped sounding like an Australian after only a couple years in Canada. If he was treated like the Japanese were on the west coast, I wouldn't exist.

Originally Posted by AudiA3

I think you exaggerate too much by stating 99% Chinese. When I purchased a unit on the day-1 VIP sales event for Brentwood ONE, I think there were only about 50% Chinese buyers. The rest were people from Middle-East, Korea, and a few Caucasians.

It might be shifting now, big sales centre crowds in general are disappearing, but the realtors were the only other white people in the few I went to outside of the north shore.

[nickinacan]

When you really put it into context, only one of the five options is really being revitalize, and that is Surrey City Centre which is the redevelopment of an area roughly the same size as Downtown Vancouver.

Oakridge Centre is the redevelopment of an existing mall. Marine Gateway not really a revitalization but a project is akin to the Plaza 88 at New Westminster Station. South East False Creek is putting residential on old industrial lands around the Athlete's Village, which itself was built on old industrial lands. Brentwood Town Centre is a bit of a combination of both South East False Creek and Oakridge as it is the redevelopment of a mall and the surrounding industrial lands.

That being said, if I had to pick an area for the greatest short term gain, I would go with South East False Creek. Many units here are somewhat affordable for the proximity to Downtown Vancouver and the amenities it offers. For long term I would go with Surrey. It has the greatest number of unknowns, but at the same time the greatest potential for growth thanks to it being much more affordable than the other options. All the major developers have bought much of the land in the area up so if that isn't a sign you should invest, I don't know what is.

[memememe76]

If (more like when) this distance-based transit fare policy and the tolling of Patullo take place, I think there will be a stronger local demand for amenities and businesses within Surrey. So, Central Surrey is not really competing against the redevelopments of Oakridge, Marine Gateway, Chinatown, Brentwood, Metrotown, New West, etc.

[GMasterAres]

The issue with Surrey Central is supply right now. I own in Surrey Central and while I am renting the units out and not looking to sell, in 2 years, property values have remained fairly static. That is largely due to supply. There are a lot of buildings under construction and the demand is not yet at the level you see in other parts of Metro since Surrey as a whole has a lot of alternatives in other parts.

If you want affordable though, Surrey is hard to beat right now. Though comparing apples to apples, I think you can get some good relative deals in South False Creek. Brentwood is interesting but I feel overpriced. Marine Gateway as was mentioned is 1 project really. I don't think I would ever invest in the DTES though or Gas Town in the next 10 years. To me it is really overrated. Others probably disagree but I just think it is and prices reflect.

Oakridge, not sure. Much like Marine Gateway, I kind of see it as 1 project not an entire neighborhood at the scale of Brentwood or Surrey Central, or even New Westminster. New Westminster is an interesting one. If they can, with the region, reasonably deal with traffic issues and road infrastructure, it could turn out to be a diamond in the rough.

China Down which I don't equate to DTES or Gas Town is a bit up in the air for me. I honestly don't know much about the area so can't say one way or the other my opinion on it. It has potential for sure and proximity gives it a good lead on many other areas. But I'd have to see what current real-estate prices are around there.

[AudiA3]

Originally Posted by jhausner

The issue with Surrey Central is supply right now. I own in Surrey Central and while I am renting the units out and not looking to sell, in 2 years, property values have remained fairly static. That is largely due to supply. There are a lot of buildings under construction and the demand is not yet at the level you see in other parts of Metro since Surrey as a whole has a lot of alternatives in other parts.

You're spot on! Surrey has basically unlimited underdeveloped land. Last time I checked, there are a lot of empty lands up for grab on the MLS. There will definitely be an enormous oversupply of housing in Surrey. It's good news for some, because this means affordable housing for those who cannot afford living closer to the city centre. This picture says it all..


I think too many people in this forum equates cheap prices as good investments. In reality, there is absolutely no chance that the average house prices in Surrey will ever be as expensive as in Richmond or Burnaby. Surrey has massive land area that can support a million residents without any supply issues and it's much farther from Downtown. On top of that, the city is separated by bridges, which is very dangerous, inconvenient and costly.

[nickinacan]

In Surrey City Centre's defense, it is the only option that is outside of Vancouver. Yes I am including Brentwood with that neighbourhood is right on the Vancouver border. It doesn't have the advantage of location and direct quick connections like the others, or even Metrotown or Richmond. As far as being costly being on the south side of the river, it is all relative to where you work, and not everyone works across the river.

The developers, if they are smart, will maintain the market. If they can't sell units at a certain price point, they will stop building until the market picks up. So far so good on many of the towers being built right now, including 3 Civic Plaza (In my opinion, the nicest development in the area right now as far as units go).

[AudiA3]

On the other hand, Richmond has been the best place to park your money, and likely to continue to be the best. The explosive demand for real estate by Chinese buyers are insane...

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

On the other hand, Richmond has been the best place to park your money, and likely to continue to be the best. The explosive demand for real estate by Chinese buyers are insane...

Actually it's probably hit its peak now that you can't buy Canadian citizenship for a $750,000 loan anymore.

[AudiA3]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Actually it's probably hit its peak now that you can't buy Canadian citizenship for a $750,000 loan anymore.

O boy... This may lead to real estate crashing in Vancouver.... Btw does anybody know which city in metro vancouver have the highest job opportunities (outside of downtown vancouver)?

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

buyers are insane...

That's most of what you need to know.

Burnaby is the second largest job market.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by nickinacan

In Surrey City Centre's defense, it is the only option that is outside of Vancouver. Yes I am including Brentwood with that neighbourhood is right on the Vancouver border. It doesn't have the advantage of location and direct quick connections like the others, or even Metrotown or Richmond. As far as being costly being on the south side of the river, it is all relative to where you work, and not everyone works across the river.

The developers, if they are smart, will maintain the market. If they can't sell units at a certain price point, they will stop building until the market picks up. So far so good on many of the towers being built right now, including 3 Civic Plaza (In my opinion, the nicest development in the area right now as far as units go).

I agree. My point along with AudiA3 is more along the lines of just equating cheap prices or affordability doesn't make a blanket area a good or bad investment. Due to supply and demand in Surrey Central for example, the entire area doesn't automatically make a project a good investment. But there are specific projects that are good investments. For example I just purchased into a 3 bedroom townhouse in a project that has 4 townhouses and 192 condos just 3 minute walk from SkyTrain. It has proximity to the central Surrey area, one of the closer projects to SkyTrain access, and for the project itself out of 198 units, there are only 4 x 3 bedrooms available and I have 25% of them.

So to me (though I am living in it now with my wife), I deemed it a good investment. We paid $200,000 less than other townhouses going up in Surrey Central mainly because the project was focussed on selling the condos not the townhouses and we're on the edge of the core. No plans to sell for probably 5-10 years, so I am sure I'll get my money + some back if I sell.

But I felt Urban Village was a _bad_ investment in Surrey Central because of the project. So area doesn't automatically mean good investment.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

That's most of what you need to know.

Burnaby is the second largest job market.

Incorrect. As of 2006:

1. Vancouver
2. Surrey
3. Burnaby
4. Richmond

http://public.metrovancouver.org/pla...0062041_TH.pdf

Also Stats-Can for 2011 will show Surrey > Burnaby as of 2006 census.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Stats-Can for 2011 will show Surrey > Burnaby as of 2006 census.

In terms of absolute numbers you are correct, but that is not a very useful metric. According to the document you reference, 2006 employment numbers for Burnaby and Surrey were 136k and 143k respectively.

Burnaby, per resident: 0.65
Surrey, per resident: 0.35
Burnaby, per km^2: 1,501
Surrey, per km^2: 452

Of course that doesn't mean Burnaby is #2 by those metrics, but I haven't calculated numbers for other municipalities.