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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
In the list posted on the wiki page for the Kitchener name change, I personally would have liked Uranus. People would have a lot of fun with that one, especially on this forum.

"Ontario City" would have worked - perfect in so many ways ....
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Holy Shit! There were 11 world wars??

Joking I know that you meant.
Lest there be doubt, the name was changed amid considerable controversy in 1916.
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
Embrun was the name of the town in the French Alps that Embrun, ON's first priest originated from. Named the village after his home town, simple enough.
Wait, you're from Embrun? I actually grew up there. So did 1overcosc. Do we really have three SSPers from the same little town? That's... wild.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yes, Ottawa is the English interpretation of "Odaawaa" or "Atawe" as they heard it.

The French heard the same word from the same native people and came up with "Outaouais" which is the French name for the Ottawa River, this region of Quebec and of the aboriginal group. (It's a unique word in that it has 5 consecutive vowels.)

The Odawa people themselves referred to the Ottawa River as Kitchissippi, which means "great river". The City of Ottawa has a ward called Kitchissippi as well as a beach and a lookout I believe.

The high school and a few other things in the Aylmer district of Gatineau are named "Grande-Rivière".

And a few years ago a street in Gatineau was renamed from "Chemin du Lac-Leamy" to "Rue Atawe".
The Odawa people are actually indigenous to an area much further west than the Ottawa River region; their homeland is in the Sault Ste. Marie/upper Michigan area. I believe the reason why Europeans used their name for the Ottawa River (and subsequently the city, which was named after the river), was because the river led to their homeland. The name Kitchissippi actually comes from the Algonquin language, which is closely related to the Odawa language.

Using the modern writing rules of the Algonquin language, the name is actually spelt Kìchì Sìbì. They've actually proposed naming the future LRT station adjacent to that beach and lookout Kìchì Sìbì for this reason. IMO, if they're going to do that, the ward, beach, and lookout should all be respelled to Kìchì Sìbì as well.

Kìchì Sìbì / Kitchissippi is actually the same etymology as the Mississippi River in the United States; it comes from the closely related Ojibwe language. The Ojibwe homeland extends into the upper midwest of the United States, near the headwaters of the Mississippi, which is the part of the Mississippi River the Europeans discovered first, hence why they named the river from their language. As a result, the US state of Mississippi has the odd fact of being named from a word in a language of a people whose homeland is thousands of kilometres away from them.

There's also a Mississippi River in Ontario that is a tributary of the Ottawa River, originating in Mazinaw Lake in Bon Echo Park and flowing past Carleton Place and Almonte before flowing into the Ottawa near Arnprior. It's a pretty small and piddly river compared to the Ottawa River (or even other tributaries of the Ottawa like the Madawaska or the Gatineau), so it's a little odd that it would be named "Great River". It's unknown how the name Mississippi came to be applied to this river; it's possible that Europeans asked native people "what's this called" and the natives mistakenly believed they were asking about the name of the Ottawa River. The river originates from Mazinaw Lake, whose name is derived from Algonquin, so it's also possible the river was called "Mazinawsippi" (ie. "River to Mazinaw Lake") and Europeans misheard that as Mississippi.
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Holy Shit! There were 11 world wars??

Joking I know that you meant.
Actually I'm glad you mentioned it because I screwed it up. I mean to put WW1.

As far as 11 world wars, just give us a little time.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
The Odawa people are actually indigenous to an area much further west than the Ottawa River region; their homeland is in the Sault Ste. Marie/upper Michigan area. I believe the reason why Europeans used their name for the Ottawa River (and subsequently the city, which was named after the river), was because the river led to their homeland. The name Kitchissippi actually comes from the Algonquin language, which is closely related to the Odawa language.

Using the modern writing rules of the Algonquin language, the name is actually spelt Kìchì Sìbì. They've actually proposed naming the future LRT station adjacent to that beach and lookout Kìchì Sìbì for this reason. IMO, if they're going to do that, the ward, beach, and lookout should all be respelled to Kìchì Sìbì as well.

Kìchì Sìbì / Kitchissippi is actually the same etymology as the Mississippi River in the United States; it comes from the closely related Ojibwe language. The Ojibwe homeland extends into the upper midwest of the United States, near the headwaters of the Mississippi, which is the part of the Mississippi River the Europeans discovered first, hence why they named the river from their language. As a result, the US state of Mississippi has the odd fact of being named from a word in a language of a people whose homeland is thousands of kilometres away from them.

There's also a Mississippi River in Ontario that is a tributary of the Ottawa River, originating in Mazinaw Lake in Bon Echo Park and flowing past Carleton Place and Almonte before flowing into the Ottawa near Arnprior. It's a pretty small and piddly river compared to the Ottawa River (or even other tributaries of the Ottawa like the Madawaska or the Gatineau), so it's a little odd that it would be named "Great River". It's unknown how the name Mississippi came to be applied to this river; it's possible that Europeans asked native people "what's this called" and the natives mistakenly believed they were asking about the name of the Ottawa River. The river originates from Mazinaw Lake, whose name is derived from Algonquin, so it's also possible the river was called "Mazinawsippi" (ie. "River to Mazinaw Lake") and Europeans misheard that as Mississippi.
Thanks for this!
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
As far as 11 world wars, just give us a little time.
The Seven Years War and the Napoleonic Wars were arguably world wars too
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 7:03 PM
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The name of St.Thomas Ontario always struck me as very odd.

It was named after one of the founding people and administrators of Elgin county........Thomas Talbot. Very odd however that the city was named after his first name and not his last. How many cities can you think of that have that?

Also he was not a Saint {either literally or figuratively} so why SAINT Thomas?
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
The name of St.Thomas Ontario always struck me as very odd.

It was named after one of the founding people and administrators of Elgin county........Thomas Talbot. Very odd however that the city was named after his first name and not his last. How many cities can you think of that have that?

Also he was not a Saint {either literally or figuratively} so why SAINT Thomas?
I suspect there are many in francophone Canada.

Two that I know of:

St-Lambert, a south shore suburb of Montreal, is named for Lambert Closse, a governor of Montreal during the French régime. There is a Saint Lambert that actually exists (I think he was Belgian) but the Quebec town is not named for him.

One of my parents is from a small Acadian town in the Maritimes that is "Saint-Something" and the given name is that of the town's founder. I don't even think there is a real saint by that name.
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 8:25 PM
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I know there are first names like St.John's but those are old historic cities when it was common. St.Thomas wasn't founded until the 1800s and the name has absolutely no religious association.
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 9:43 PM
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What about Saint Cinnamon?
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
The name of St.Thomas Ontario always struck me as very odd.

It was named after one of the founding people and administrators of Elgin county........Thomas Talbot. Very odd however that the city was named after his first name and not his last. How many cities can you think of that have that?

Also he was not a Saint {either literally or figuratively} so why SAINT Thomas?
It would have been considered a dignified way to commemorate someone. St. Vital, the parish that gave its name to the suburb of Winnipeg I'm from, was similarly named by Archbishop Taché from the first name of his friend, Bishop Grandin.
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I suspect there are many in francophone Canada.

Two that I know of:

St-Lambert, a south shore suburb of Montreal, is named for Lambert Closse, a governor of Montreal during the French régime. There is a Saint Lambert that actually exists (I think he was Belgian) but the Quebec town is not named for him.

One of my parents is from a small Acadian town in the Maritimes that is "Saint-Something" and the given name is that of the town's founder. I don't even think there is a real saint by that name.
Your Christian name is just a saint's name anyway. You're named after the saint, essentially (often because you were born on his/her "day"), so commemorating you by honouring "your" saint would have seemed quite a natural thing to do.
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 1:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
It would have been considered a dignified way to commemorate someone. St. Vital, the parish that gave its name to the suburb of Winnipeg I'm from, was similarly named by Archbishop Taché from the first name of his friend, Bishop Grandin.
I’ve always wondered whether you and Dave are related in any way.
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 3:22 AM
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I’ve always wondered whether you and Dave are related in any way.
I don't believe so, unless he's using an assumed name.
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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
It would have been considered a dignified way to commemorate someone. St. Vital, the parish that gave its name to the suburb of Winnipeg I'm from, was similarly named by Archbishop Taché from the first name of his friend, Bishop Grandin.
Going somewhat off topic for a moment here, but as a relatively new St. Vital resident, perhaps I can tap into your area knowledge to solve a mystery that has been bugging me for a while?

How is it that the current St. Vital (RC) Parish is located across the river in Fort Garry and not in the actual St. Vital area? Did it start out in St. Vital and then move (plausible since the existing church building only appears to be from about the 1960s while the neighbourhood is much older), or is there some other explanation?
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Going somewhat off topic for a moment here, but as a relatively new St. Vital resident, perhaps I can tap into your area knowledge to solve a mystery that has been bugging me for a while?

How is it that the current St. Vital (RC) Parish is located across the river in Fort Garry and not in the actual St. Vital area? Did it start out in St. Vital and then move (plausible since the existing church building only appears to be from about the 1960s while the neighbourhood is much older), or is there some other explanation?
Original parish larger than the neighbourhood that now carries the name?
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Original parish larger than the neighbourhood that now carries the name?
Possibly, but I did not think any of the old parish boundaries crossed the Red River??
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 5:05 PM
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No, the French parishes (at least) were on both sides of the Red, e.g. if you look at land title descriptions in Fort Rouge, the lots are still (as far as I know) lots in the plan of the Parish of St. Boniface. It may be the same as you go north through the parishes of St. John's, Kildonan and St. Paul. St. Charles was probably on both sides of the Assiniboine as well, even though the St. Charles neighbourhood is now just on the north side, facing Charleswood on the south.

It was always confusing as a St. Vital child seeing the St. Vital parish office on Pembina Highway. The western half of St. Vital (the then-rural municipality) broke away municipally around 1910, with residents voting for the name "Fort Garry" (which creates additional confusion for visitors since neither of the forts by that name -- Upper and Lower -- is anywhere near the residential district and former town of Fort Garry). I assume that in the Catholic Church, St. Vital parish still includes St. Vital, the ex-city.
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 5:57 PM
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^ Thank you for that explanation... I didn't realize that St. Vital spanned both banks of the Red at one point. I clearly have much to learn about St. Vital.
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