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  #2281  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2020, 6:01 PM
Urban_Sky Urban_Sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
For interest, I just looked into how much CO2 CN produces annually. I might have got it wrong, but I think it's about 5 million tons a year. That might sound like a lot, but with a $50/ton carbon tax, it's only $250M on a revenue of $15B, and they can pass it on to their customers anyway, and their competitors are trucks, who also have to pay the tax.

It's also less than a percent of Canada's emissions. Eventually, it will have to be reduced or offset, but it is not a priority. CN and CP will figure it out, all the government should do is give them predictable timelines and a level playing ground - carbon pricing.
Now compare that with VIA Rail, which had total GHG emissions of 146,212 tons CO2-equivalents, according to its 2019 Sustainability report, thus representing an annual tax payment of $7.3 million, assuming your $50/ton carbon tax. The main driver for sustainability in the intercity passenger rail industry of this country will continue to be a modal shift away from more pollutant modes much rather than electrification (which would be an expensive solution to a - in the scale of things - negligible problem)...
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  #2282  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2020, 6:18 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
From a dollar perspective, probably not, but it may happen anyway so that the government can look like they are putting their money where their mouth is. Not paying for electrification of HFR may come across as being hypocritical.
We'll see in a month or so, I guess.

I'm not sure electrification is a given just because of politics. The opportunity cost for $2B is substantial. Could pay for the Pearson-Kitchener-London extension.

Then again, they are trying to legislate a firm climate timetable. And they may like the optics of that. So....
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  #2283  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2020, 6:46 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
Now compare that with VIA Rail, which had total GHG emissions of 146,212 tons CO2-equivalents, according to its 2019 Sustainability report, thus representing an annual tax payment of $7.3 million, assuming your $50/ton carbon tax. The main driver for sustainability in the intercity passenger rail industry of this country will continue to be a modal shift away from more pollutant modes much rather than electrification (which would be an expensive solution to a - in the scale of things - negligible problem)...
Do you know, how does VIA pay carbon prices? Does it just pay for diesel through commercial vendors in each province, paying the same as what everyone else does? Or does VIA have some special system, or exemption?
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  #2284  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2020, 6:48 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
We'll see in a month or so, I guess.

I'm not sure electrification is a given just because of politics. The opportunity cost for $2B is substantial. Could pay for the Pearson-Kitchener-London extension.

Then again, they are trying to legislate a firm climate timetable. And they may like the optics of that. So....
I think that Via electrification will not happen before the next election. I think GO will see electrification once RER is online.
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  #2285  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2020, 5:55 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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With HFR planned to make the Corridor profitable, what should Via do with the extra government meeny, providing it isn't cut?
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  #2286  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 12:27 AM
Denscity Denscity is offline
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VIA bringing back Vancouver to Winnipeg service. One round trip per week.
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Castlegar BC: SSP's hottest city (43.9C)
Lytton BC: Canada’s hottest city (49.6C)
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  #2287  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 1:03 AM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
VIA bringing back Vancouver to Winnipeg service. One round trip per week.
Did anyone notice it was gone?
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  #2288  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 1:05 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Did anyone notice it was gone?
Probably those who took it and didn't have a ride back...
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  #2289  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 4:22 AM
trainshumanist trainshumanist is offline
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
With HFR planned to make the Corridor profitable, what should Via do with the extra government meeny, providing it isn't cut?
Buy more trains.
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  #2290  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 4:25 AM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Buy more trains.
For the HFR or elsewhere?
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  #2291  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 4:39 AM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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^^ Just the Corridor. Burying trains for the rest of the country is just throwing away good money after bad.

Still, I don't think any of the Corridor routes will be electrified except the Corridor West sections to Kitchener and London which could run via battery while piggy-backing onto RER.
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  #2292  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 7:04 AM
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manny_santos manny_santos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Did anyone notice it was gone?
I don’t have ridership numbers but I recall reading last year something about them seeing a bit of a bump in ridership after Greyhound pulled out of Western Canada. How much of a bump that was, I don’t know.
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  #2293  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 9:49 AM
casper casper is online now
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Do you know, how does VIA pay carbon prices? Does it just pay for diesel through commercial vendors in each province, paying the same as what everyone else does? Or does VIA have some special system, or exemption?
I know when I have used the Canadian, in Saskatoon there is a Co-op diesel tanker truck waiting to top up the train engine. So they do buy it from the local suppliers along the line. No idea the contractual terms of if they have an exemption on taxes etc.
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  #2294  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 2:01 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Wine-by-the-glass vending machines.

Quote:
Jon Willing
@JonathanWilling


Big honour for Ottawa, selected by Via Rail to pilot new wine-by-the-glass vending machines in the business lounge: https://merx.com/public/solicitation...77166/abstract

4:38 PM · Jan 13, 2021·TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/JonathanWilling/...70918310035456

Here's what that could look like.

Video Link
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  #2295  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 2:43 PM
ghYHZ ghYHZ is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Wine-by-the-glass vending machines.
So looking forward to riding Business Class again in the corridor...and hopefully getting there on the OCEAN when this is all over
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  #2296  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 2:57 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Is there a separate law for VIA and the airlines that allows them to get around our parochial provincial liquor regulations?
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  #2297  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2021, 8:28 PM
Hybrid247 Hybrid247 is offline
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Continuing the HFR/HSR discussion from the transit thread here.

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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Like you, I think he ignores the political reality that we've been talking about HSR for half a century and done fuck-all.

So yeah. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough.
At the end of the day, I understand and empathize with much of what you and other HFR proponents are saying regarding the political reality of the situation. Still don't like the fact that this is the best we can muster after many decades of deliberation.
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  #2298  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2021, 8:29 PM
Hybrid247 Hybrid247 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I was just perusing some UK intercity rail pages on Wikipedia and it seems like their history is pretty similar to the HFR proposal in that other than HS1 which was prompted by the chunnel megaproject, the other railways are at most "higher speed" lines that are incrementally upgraded legacy routes that support speeds not much higher than proposed for VIA HFR. Both the East Coast Main Line (ECML) and the West Coast Main Line (WCML) seem to have top speeds of about 200km/h with that speed necessitating the use of tilting train technology on the WCML due to the curves.
Quick little note on HS1. I did a little digging into some of the investors VIA was in talks with for HFR, one of which was the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan (OTPP). It turns out they jointly purchased HS1 about 10 years ago with OMERS Worldwide. Had no idea. So rail investment would very much align with their portfolio. Question is, are they bullish enough on HFR to invest in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I have to wonder if tilting technology (along with super-elevation) could increase the potential speed of VIA's routes without much more expensive and disruptive curve re-alignments?
I've wondered this too. Also, if they can't work in tandem, I wonder what would be the best option between superelevation and tilting trains regarding costs and performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Yes the UK has nearly double Canada's population, but about 1/2 of Canada's population is within the corridor which is similar in length to the ECML and WCML. So that would make our frequent rail-viable population base roughly equivalent to a quarter of theirs (and of course they have two such mainlines averaging around 50-100km apart. Yet some people scoff at the idea that a similar quality of service could attract even 7 million riders/year to VIA's corridor service which would still only be 20% as much as that one service on the WCML. And while the UK does have higher car ownership costs, they're also the epicenter of low-cost discount airlines.
A few things about this. The 7 million riders was touted for the T-O-M section of corridor, which serves a population of about 12-13M. So that's roughly 18-19% of the UK's population, not quite 1/4. However, that actually doesn't have much to do with my reasoning to doubt the 7M figure.

If you've followed the HFR proposal over the years, you'd notice that much of the purported benefits and costs have significantly changed. Back when VIA was touting 7M riders, they were also touting a Tor-Ott run time of 2.5 hours (!!!) and project cost of $2.5B for just the infrastructure (excluding rolling stock and electrification). If 2.5 hours was actually the possible run-time, then 7 million riders would be far more believable. However, they've since changed the purported run-time to "as low as 3.25 hours" and increased the cost to $4B for just the infrastructure. Not to mention they seem to have dropped the 7M ridership figure for T-O-M and are now touting 9.9M for the entire corridor by 2030.

When you consider that and the rate of service and ridership growth over the years (that I broke down in my earlier post), I think my skepticism is warranted.
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  #2299  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2021, 8:44 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
At the end of the day, I understand and empathize with much of what you and other HFR proponents are saying regarding the political reality of the situation. Still don't like the fact that this is the best we can muster after many decades of deliberation.
I don't think anybody "likes it". But some of us see it as the path of least resistance. I really think that once HFR enters service, the public discussion and political support for intercity rail will change substantially. This is what has happened elsewhere with large rail projects.

Upgrades also become much easier. Increasing speeds on one segment (say Ottawa-Montreal) can be done in a single government term and mostly for less than what the baseline HFR will cost. I think we'll see the HFR corridor achieve HSR capability inside of 15 years after the launch of service.
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  #2300  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2021, 8:56 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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HFR may indeed change the public, and hence political, climate to encourage a more robust passenger rail service but only if results in SIGNIFICANTLY faster travel times.

If the travel times drop from 25% to 40% on every route then the public's perception will change for the better. Conversely, if all it does is offer more trains with just better reliability but no meaningful decrease in travel times then any potential further government money for improved rail service will be seen as nothing more than throwing good money after bad.

Last edited by ssiguy; Feb 24, 2021 at 6:00 AM.
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