Global Transportation Hub (Regina)

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

The GTH is a total failure and will cost the province billions when all is said and done. The Bypass is unneeded and is going to further subsidize sprawl.

The bypass is not needed? Really?
Ask any trucker who drives through here if they like the cluster that is Victoria Street east.

[jigglysquishy]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

The bypass is not needed? Really?
Ask any trucker who drives through here if they like the cluster that is Victoria Street east.

There's lots of projects that businesses would love to have taxpayers pay for. I'm sure the oil industry, potash industry, or any other industry would love a public subsidy. But at $1,200,000,000 there is zero justification for the project.

It's incompetence at best and corruption at worst.

We make very little money on truck traffic. The bypass will never pay itself back. Not even close.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

There's lots of projects that businesses would love to have taxpayers pay for. I'm sure the oil industry, potash industry, or any other industry would love a public subsidy. But at $1,200,000,000 there is zero justification for the project.

It's incompetence at best and corruption at worst.

We make very little money on truck traffic. The bypass will never pay itself back. Not even close.

So I guess we should never have twinned the TCH, Highway 11 or the Yellowhead. Or made the passing lanes on Highway 10 or IVO Rosetown. There is only truckers and rural people out there so they don't count.
Should we never build concert halls, museums or libraries? Cause they don't make money either.

[BrutallyDishonest2]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

So I guess we should never have twinned the TCH, Highway 11 or the Yellowhead. Or made the passing lanes on Highway 10 or IVO Rosetown. There is only truckers and rural people out there so they don't count.
Should we never build concert halls, museums or libraries? Cause they don't make money either.

It's an issue of scale. And an issue of picking certain businesses (Loblaws) as winners. I mean if you look at the numbers the government is spending about 1.2 million dollars per Loblaws employee. That's not an efficent use of money.

And what you are bringing up are strawmen. Nobody is arguing that public money can't be spent on anything.

A east Regina bypass was needed, but not at the scale it is happening. You could have spend a third as much just to bypass east Regina. Hell the only part they are not doing, the NE, is probably the second most needed link, because it would have connected to Regina's real industrial areas Ross and Sherwood north. The province also could have identified a bypass route and secured it for the future without actually building a bypass miles south of the city where zero development is planned in the short or medium term.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

There's lots of projects that businesses would love to have taxpayers pay for. I'm sure the oil industry, potash industry, or any other industry would love a public subsidy. But at $1,200,000,000 there is zero justification for the project.

It's incompetence at best and corruption at worst.

We make very little money on truck traffic. The bypass will never pay itself back. Not even close.

I get what you're trying to say, but businesses in a lot of areas do get tax incentives, subsidies, etc in many industries. It's pretty much par for the course.

Potash is transported mainly by rail, the groundwork of which was laid out by government long ago... Not to mention that Sask Potash was a crown corp created (and mismanaged) by the government... with our (or our predecessors') money. That and there are still pretty generous tax breaks for developing the resource.

It's fairly well known that oil gets billions of dollars in various forms of subsidies every year in Canada. It's a profitable business, why bother at all?

Cameco also recently got into hot water for using legal, but dubious loopholes to avoid paying taxes in Saskatchewan.

Auto industry in Ontario?

It's all different sides of the same coin really. Unfortunate, but it's become part of business as usual everywhere. We can't change it on our own... look what happened when the Sask Gov't decided it didn't want to play with the Film Tax Credit anymore...

[casper]

When does building public roads become a subsidy?

Loblaws relocated from Saskatoon to GTH but at a much larger scale to serve a much larger region.

[BrutallyDishonest2]

Originally Posted by casper

When does building public roads become a subsidy?

Loblaws relocated from Saskatoon to GTH but at a much larger scale to serve a much larger region.

When it's based around spending over a billion dollars to serve one company.

[casper]

Originally Posted by BrutallyDishonest2

When it's based around spending over a billion dollars to serve one company.

You have the CP rail yards that are also served from that location. You have the liquor board and SaskPower as well as who ever comes along and buys into the facility over the next 10 years.

[thefourthtower]

It sounds like a NDP campaign one sided

[jigglysquishy]

This is why we can't have nice things. Instead of putting that money towards stuff we need it's money into private hands.

Why stop at $1.2 bln? Why not loop all around Regina? Why not cut it short and connect to Highway 6?

It's all designed to profit private business. The taxpayer wasn't even considered. The job creation will be minimal. The loss of tax revenue will be great.

There is no logic to support this project. Wrong location. Too costly.

It's reasons like this that are causing Regina to fall further and further behind Saskatoon.

[thefourthtower]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

This is why we can't have nice things. Instead of putting that money towards stuff we need it's money into private hands.

Why stop at $1.2 bln? Why not loop all around Regina? Why not cut it short and connect to Highway 6?

It's all designed to profit private business. The taxpayer wasn't even considered. The job creation will be minimal. The loss of tax revenue will be great.

There is no logic to support this project. Wrong location. Too costly.

It's reasons like this that are causing Regina to fall further and further behind Saskatoon.

Total rubbish it is hard to believe how many major projects This city got during the boom two big condo towers , universty towers , the massive new stadium , two big office towers good for both cities , or did you forget

[BrutallyDishonest2]

Originally Posted by thefourthtower

Total rubbish it is hard to believe how many major projects This city got during the boom two big condo towers , universty towers , the massive new stadium , two big office towers good for both cities , or did you forget

That has nothing to do with the bypass.

[BrutallyDishonest2]

Originally Posted by casper

You have the CP rail yards that are also served from that location. You have the liquor board and SaskPower as well as who ever comes along and buys into the facility over the next 10 years.

But the point is that you could have located all of that in east Regina in the Ross Industrial area. Instead they built a massive terminal for the use of one company.

You might as well say the city should develop thousands and thousands of acres of subsidized residential land for developers just in case it's needed in the next thirty years. If industry themselves desired such a development it would have been created without the need to expropriate and subsidize everything.

[Festivus]

Recent studies have shown that giving tax breaks and subsidies to support business development doesn't really benefit cities or regions as usually the money is never paid back in the form of future taxes. If the incentives are small (like land that no one else was going to use) then it might be beneficial. But if you're spending billions to get millions, then it's a waste of taxpayer money.

[OOO AHH OGEMA]

Originally Posted by BrutallyDishonest2

But the point is that you could have located all of that in east Regina in the Ross Industrial area. Instead they built a massive terminal for the use of one company.

You might as well say the city should develop thousands and thousands of acres of subsidized residential land for developers just in case it's needed in the next thirty years. If industry themselves desired such a development it would have been created without the need to expropriate and subsidize everything.

You keep referring to Loblaws like they are, and will only ever be, the only company out there. As mentioned earlier, there are other companies already out there and it's only been operational for 5 years. I think you have to give it a bit more time before you can declare it a failure.

[Festivus]

Originally Posted by OOO AHH OGEMA

You keep referring to Loblaws like they are, and will only ever be, the only company out there. As mentioned earlier, there are other companies already out there and it's only been operational for 5 years. I think you have to give it a bit more time before you can declare it a failure.

By the same token, it's disingenuous to say it's worth it right now. Is it possible that 10 new companies the size of Loblaws could come in over the next 20 years? Yes. Is it likely, based off of the current economic trend? No. And most importantly, would even 10 new Loblaws make the tax-payer investment worth it? Still probably not, financially.

[Spongebob]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

This is why we can't have nice things. Instead of putting that money towards stuff we need it's money into private hands.

Why stop at $1.2 bln? Why not loop all around Regina? Why not cut it short and connect to Highway 6?

It's all designed to profit private business. The taxpayer wasn't even considered. The job creation will be minimal. The loss of tax revenue will be great.

There is no logic to support this project. Wrong location. Too costly.

It's reasons like this that are causing Regina to fall further and further behind Saskatoon.

OK? Last I checked, the growth rates between the two cities have been substantial over the past 10 years. Not sure what your comment even means but judging by the amount of infrastructure being built in Regina compared to Saskatoon, I would say there is a little bit of envy there somewhere in your comment.

[OOO AHH OGEMA]

Originally Posted by Festivus

By the same token, it's disingenuous to say it's worth it right now. Is it possible that 10 new companies the size of Loblaws could come in over the next 20 years? Yes. Is it likely, based off of the current economic trend? No. And most importantly, would even 10 new Loblaws make the tax-payer investment worth it? Still probably not, financially.

I can see the criticism of the north south portion of the bypass, but the southeast bypass has been discussed for decades and, in my opinion, is needed for reasons unrelated to the GTH. The $1.2 billion price tag covers the entire project as far as i can tell.

[BrutallyDishonest2]

Originally Posted by OOO AHH OGEMA

I can see the criticism of the north south portion of the bypass, but the southeast bypass has been discussed for decades and, in my opinion, is needed for reasons unrelated to the GTH. The $1.2 billion price tag covers the entire project as far as i can tell.

The SE portion is well and good.

The $1.2 billion is the estimate for the entire bypass. But the financials have not closed on the contract yet. The GTH itself has seen 10s maybe more millions of investment. Plus we do not know the full scale of the promises/incentives/tax breaks given to the groups there.

[thefourthtower]

http://www.leaderpost.com/business/d...005/story.html

GTH declared a Foreign Trade Zone

But Richards said a couple of new tenants could be attracted to the GTH in the coming months as a result of FTZ designation. “I definitely believe ... the GTH is certainly becoming a lot more known in many areas of the world.”

By Bruce Johnstone, Leader-Post August 12, 2015