[Saint John] Suburbs

[Whaler]

Keep in mind that ice arenas (rinks) don't make money.
I believe the Q-Plex has lost over $500,000 last year. A lot more than bugeted.
A renovation is a smarter move.
Ice rental people all want the good times as the rink sits there empty all day with no or very little use.
The new generation doesn't want to get up at 5 in the morning for a practice.
They want it at 7:30!
We don't need more ice surfaces, we need better management. We need to charge more for these peak times and have good rates for off peak times.
You can't have your cake and eat it too!

[Southpaw78]

On vacation visiting my parents in GB-W from Ottawa. Just arrinving yesterday, I noticed coming in from the city there are a row of lots on the right hand side starting around PIzza Shack up to where the old caboose used to be. Anyone have any idea what might be going on here?

Also noticed where the service bays at the Irving are have two retail spaces as pointed out by Whaler. One will be a Medicine Shoppe (some sort of pharmacy?) and the other with be a Subway apparently, which will move out from inside the Irving. As with Whaler's point, I agree, big news for Grand Bay and it's definitely an area looked over which is why Col. Nase development to date has been so disappointing. It's almost embarrassing the lack of business for a town it's size and the fact that upgrades in the stores that do exist have also been lacking....OK, I've vented enough now....I'm on vacation :o)

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Whaler

Keep in mind that ice arenas (rinks) don't make money.

Fourplex facilities generally make money if they're properly run. The fourplex in Moncton makes money because they have a good management team.

Originally Posted by Whaler

Ice rental people all want the good times as the rink sits there empty all day with no or very little use.

This depends. Sometimes senior players use the rinks through the day, sometimes it's learn to skate, sometimes it's free skate. Having singular arenas like Saint John has this is a money-losing process as you need individual ice machines, zambonis, and employees for each location. Doubling or quadrupling ice surfaces in a single facility cuts many, many costs.

Originally Posted by Whaler

The new generation doesn't want to get up at 5 in the morning for a practice.
They want it at 7:30!

This would fall more on the parents than the kids, truthfully.

Originally Posted by Whaler

We don't need more ice surfaces, we need better management. We need to charge more for these peak times and have good rates for off peak times.

I agree with your better management statement but the ice times as they currently are are pretty expensive. The issue with the Q-Plex is that it created a market in the Valley where the Q-Plex was asking so much for ice-time that it inflated the rates for the Quispamsis Memorial. People weren't willing to pay so much at the Q-Plex, they went to the Mem, and suddenly the Mem could charge more because there was more demand. The difficulty is that Quispamsis tried to build and operate their own little Harbour Station and are utterly failing to do so on a financial level because, IIRC, Harbour Station breaks even or makes a slight profit. The Q-Plex is absolutely bleeding money.

The current issue is that Rothesay seems to want to turn a blind eye to this fact and continue full-steam ahead. There's clearly been pressure put on Rothesay after balking on the original Q-Plex and instead have paid the price not only by not investing in the Q-Plex but now by planning their own. I have no doubt a facility in Rothesay will have the exact same financial burden as the Q-Plex in Quispamsis but in a municipality that doesn't quite have pockets as deep as the other.

[Whaler]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Fourplex facilities generally make money if they're properly run. The fourplex in Moncton makes money because they have a good management team.


This depends. Sometimes senior players use the rinks through the day, sometimes it's learn to skate, sometimes it's free skate. Having singular arenas like Saint John has this is a money-losing process as you need individual ice machines, zambonis, and employees for each location. Doubling or quadrupling ice surfaces in a single facility cuts many, many costs.


This would fall more on the parents than the kids, truthfully.


I agree with your better management statement but the ice times as they currently are are pretty expensive. The issue with the Q-Plex is that it created a market in the Valley where the Q-Plex was asking so much for ice-time that it inflated the rates for the Quispamsis Memorial. People weren't willing to pay so much at the Q-Plex, they went to the Mem, and suddenly the Mem could charge more because there was more demand. The difficulty is that Quispamsis tried to build and operate their own little Harbour Station and are utterly failing to do so on a financial level because, IIRC, Harbour Station breaks even or makes a slight profit. The Q-Plex is absolutely bleeding money.

The current issue is that Rothesay seems to want to turn a blind eye to this fact and continue full-steam ahead. There's clearly been pressure put on Rothesay after balking on the original Q-Plex and instead have paid the price not only by not investing in the Q-Plex but now by planning their own. I have no doubt a facility in Rothesay will have the exact same financial burden as the Q-Plex in Quispamsis but in a municipality that doesn't quite have pockets as deep as the other.

Well, I sit on a board that governs arenas.
I have never heard of any rink in Atlantic Canada that makes money.
I can tell first hand that Harbour Station does not make money. I believe they lost $450,000 last year. I don't think that is too bad really for an arena of that size and quality.
I agree that a 4 plex has a greater chance of a better bottom line.
However, everyone wants the times from 5pm to 9pm daily. Nobody or very few want the other times. This goes for the 4 plex as well.
It is no different than running a bar, it is busy for a few hours a day then it just sits there doing nothing.

[Whaler]

Originally Posted by Southpaw78

On vacation visiting my parents in GB-W from Ottawa. Just arrinving yesterday, I noticed coming in from the city there are a row of lots on the right hand side starting around PIzza Shack up to where the old caboose used to be. Anyone have any idea what might be going on here?

Also noticed where the service bays at the Irving are have two retail spaces as pointed out by Whaler. One will be a Medicine Shoppe (some sort of pharmacy?) and the other with be a Subway apparently, which will move out from inside the Irving. As with Whaler's point, I agree, big news for Grand Bay and it's definitely an area looked over which is why Col. Nase development to date has been so disappointing. It's almost embarrassing the lack of business for a town it's size and the fact that upgrades in the stores that do exist have also been lacking....OK, I've vented enough now....I'm on vacation :o)

Well said.
Did you know GB/Westfield has more people than St. Stephen? Look what they have!
Anyhow.....have a good vacation!

[JHikka]

We need to stop making this comparison in terms of if one place has x population and another place has x population they must have all the same amenities and services!. GBW is a suburb and St. Stephen is a small town which doesn't have a metro of ~100K to feed off of. It's pretty simple.

Development occurs due to more than simply the achievement of certain population figures.

[Southpaw78]

Originally Posted by JHikka

We need to stop making this comparison in terms of if one place has x population and another place has x population they must have all the same amenities and services!. GBW is a suburb and St. Stephen is a small town which doesn't have a metro of ~100K to feed off of. It's pretty simple.

Development occurs due to more than simply the achievement of certain population figures.

I think more of the point here is that regardless of population, the fact is the area is underdeveloped and many see the potential for the town to have more businesses than it does. There is a business case for it if the whole Col. Nase corridor was developed to encourage that. Developers want to get in there, but it's the whole lot frontage issue with the town that is stallings things.

People also like to have convenience when a town gets to be a certain size and not have to travel 10-15 minutes just to get a decent selection of groceries. And yes there is the argument "people choose to live there", but if you don't offer conveniences of a growing community, then the community itself gets stifled.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Southpaw78

I think more of the point here is that regardless of population, the fact is the area is underdeveloped and many see the potential for the town to have more businesses than it does. There is a business case for it if the whole Col. Nase corridor was developed to encourage that. Developers want to get in there, but it's the whole lot frontage issue with the town that is stallings things.

People also like to have convenience when a town gets to be a certain size and not have to travel 10-15 minutes just to get a decent selection of groceries. And yes there is the argument "people choose to live there", but if you don't offer conveniences of a growing community, then the community itself gets stifled.

You're certainly correct but the fact remains that GBW is a suburb with the majority of its residents working in either Saint John or other outlying communities. If you're looking for large, built-up business areas these first require a workforce that is present throughout the working day to provide steady business (IE, how many businesses in the Uptown are entirely dependent on the people that work 9-5?).

Until it begins to develop a base of people who work in GBW itself (whether IT, business, government, etc.) you're going to continue to see a lack of heavy business development (in terms of downtown-like development)

If all you want are grocery, hardware, or dollar stores then these will come as the steady 6-10PM business rises.

[Southpaw78]

Originally Posted by JHikka

You're certainly correct but the fact remains that GBW is a suburb with the majority of its residents working in either Saint John or other outlying communities. If you're looking for large, built-up business areas these first require a workforce that is present throughout the working day to provide steady business (IE, how many businesses in the Uptown are entirely dependent on the people that work 9-5?).

Until it begins to develop a base of people who work in GBW itself (whether IT, business, government, etc.) you're going to continue to see a lack of heavy business development (in terms of downtown-like development)

If all you want are grocery, hardware, or dollar stores then these will come as the steady 6-10PM business rises.

Yes, you are right. But there will come a tipping point where the town becomes stifled and no one will want to move there for lack of growth or the growth will happen in a way in which you suggested. the 6-10PM traffic in the town is already quite high - anyone coming out of the Guardian Drugs from 5-6 will tell you that it's a pain to get out of.

Anyway, just hoping that the next year or two will hopefully bring some much needed new business to the town to increase the competition.

[Whaler]

GB/Westfield really doesn't have much land in which to expand.
Someone said stop comparing???? Everything is relative.
That is how you find out how things are going......by comparisons.
Attitude needs changing as well!

[hebertovich]

Passed the Shell at the end of Marr this morning and they've been taking it apart since yesterday has it gone out of business or is it going through a refit? Anyone know ?

[hebertovich]

Originally Posted by hebertovich

Passed the Shell at the end of Marr this morning and they've been taking it apart since yesterday has it gone out of business or is it going through a refit? Anyone know ?

Turns out it was a face lift, it has now become a shell/needs convenience and I think they changed over to full LED's for lighting

[hebertovich]

Anyone know who bought the St Huberts express and what they intend to open ? If anything ?

[thefishingnut]

Well, that boarded up convenience store at the foot of Clark Road was demolished this weekend. Anyone know if something is planned to be built there (or were they just getting rid of a fire-trap)?

[Whaler]

Possibility of a "Health Center" for GB/Westfield on the CN Boulavard?
This will include doctors offices and phyisio clinic and maybe more.

[hebertovich]

Originally Posted by thefishingnut

Well, that boarded up convenience store at the foot of Clark Road was demolished this weekend. Anyone know if something is planned to be built there (or were they just getting rid of a fire-trap)?

Thank god! Drove by that everyday for years and thought one day it would go up in smoke. The land is for sale so my guess is no one has plans for it.

[Southpaw78]

Originally Posted by Whaler

Possibility of a "Health Center" for GB/Westfield on the CN Boulavard?
This will include doctors offices and phyisio clinic and maybe more.

This is good news! Hopefully this will spur some other development.

[albinati]

Has anyone seen artistic renderings for the new Samuel de Champlain school that is being built in Quispamsis?

[Sabien]

"Holly & Ken Singh are excited to announce: House of Chan - Dine-in and Take Away. Coming soon to Millennium Drive in Quispamsis."

http://judithmackin.ca/2013/11/annou...in-the-valley/

[kwajo]

There is also a Second Cup going in at that location by the Shannex Parkland in Quispam.