Calgary Roads

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Acey

How could one call a road designed for 80k that carries 170k anything other than a bottleneck? Deerfoot's interchanges and their proximity to each other cause it to bottleneck. I'm not sure how that could possibly be disputed. It is the proximity of the interchanges to each other and their design that resulted in an estimated capacity of 80k upon opening, as 80k will obviously not fail a mainline in the presence of no interchanges.

Because if most of the traffic is going downtown, and those roads and bridges are at capacity, with no chance of ever being upgraded, then they are the limitation. You could put a thousand lanes on Deerfoot with perfect interchanges, and the limitation would still be the roads into downtown. Hence they are a bottleneck.

For traffic going downtown at least. As I said, we can't do much for that, but we can improve flow for traffic not going downtown.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Because if most of the traffic is going downtown, and those roads and bridges are at capacity, with no chance of ever being upgraded, then they are the limitation. You could put a thousand lanes on Deerfoot with perfect interchanges, and the limitation would still be the roads into downtown. Hence they are a bottleneck.

For traffic going downtown at least. As I said, we can't do much for that, but we can improve flow for traffic not going downtown.

I don't think most of the traffic is going downtown. If you look at traffic volumes for various points along the road it is well over capacity everywhere except for the deep south and those numbers appear to be jumping up significantly each year. If I'm reading the numbers correctly it looks like the worst stretch by far is from Memorial north to Beddington. Extra lanes and interchange fixes are definitely needed to handle the capacity and for safety reasons.

[milomilo]

Alright, I shouldn't have been quite as specific with my wording. But what problems are you going to solve with a fourth lane that wouldn't be solved by fixing the bigger issue of poor interchanges? We shouldn't be worried about going from 3 lanes to 4, what's more important is going from 2 lanes to 3 where 2 lanes currently exist, and fixing specific problems with spacing where those problems exist.

As I said, increasing peak capacity going downtown is an unsolvable problem, so we should only be concerned with fixing what we can fix, which is traffic not going downtown at rush hour. That is the situation I am in with my commute, and I guarantee you that adding a fourth lane would do nothing to reduce my journey time.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

And yes, induced demand and the fact that it's already 100k+ overcapacity suggests relief from any improvement will be short-lived. That's not really the point of discussion here.

Can you point me to where it reads that Deerfoot is 100K+ overcapacity? What is the capacity calculation you are using?

Honestly, I think you'd have a heart attack in Los Angeles or the DVP in Toronto.

[ImmortalHawk]

Originally Posted by Acey

The capacity calculation is called "subtraction".



~172k between Memorial and 16 Ave. I just call it 100 for the sake of convenience. You have a habit of picking the shit from posts that matters the absolute least.

"...who previously used Blackfoot Trail, will probably switch to the new Deerfoot alignment"

Key word here is probably. You can hear the uncertainty in his voice...

Where and when was this article published?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by ImmortalHawk

"...who previously used Blackfoot Trail, will probably switch to the new Deerfoot alignment"

Key word here is probably. You can hear the uncertainty in his voice...

Where and when was this article published?

Probably 1980, when Deerfoot opened between 17th and Glenmore. Blackfoot used to continue past Southland to Anderson. When that segment closed in 1982 and Deerfoot opened between Glenmore and 22X, even more traffice would have shifted off Deerfoot,

Until about 1998, Deerfoot moved traffic quickly south of Glenmore, even during rush hour and without interchanges south of Anderson. Congestion grew extremely quickly when suburbs like McKenzie Towne took off.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

Calgary Herald, Dec 1, 1980

It's a reference in the Wikipedia article on Deerfoot Trail which I've entirely written, so it's solid. I've been chipping at it for a couple years, it's a decent read at this point.

LOL! So a 1980 Calgary Herald article is your touchstone for Deerfoot capacity, instead of a traffic calculation. Wow!

[ImmortalHawk]

Originally Posted by Acey

Calgary Herald, Dec 1, 1980

It's a reference in the Wikipedia article on Deerfoot Trail which I've entirely written, so it's solid. I've been chipping at it for a couple years, it's a decent read at this point.

Oh wow! I didn't know it was written by you... Well then, I'd say it is a really good article then, cuz I really enjoyed reading about the whole history of Deerfoot, its creation and building.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

Edit: I'll amend that to say I don't give enough of a shit about figuring out max mainline flow.

I fully get it. You'd rather not figure out and disclose the actual number as it does against your narrative.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I fully get it. You'd rather not figure out and disclose the actual number as it does against your narrative.

Originally Posted by Acey

You have a habit of picking the shit from posts that matters the absolute least.

.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I fully get it. You'd rather not figure out and disclose the actual number as it does against your narrative.

The SW leg of 201 is designed to handle 80K to 100K according to the province and it's a much bigger road than Deerfoot and way better designed so why is it so hard to believe Deerfoot was designed to handle 80K?

[Corndogger]

Thank God for Farkas.

Calgary councillor to file urgent motion to prevent future traffic ‘nightmares’

A Calgary councillor says the traffic “nightmare” he and several of his fellow community residents encountered on Thursday should never happen again, and he’s taking urgent action to try to ensure just that.

In a news release, Councillor Jeromy Farkas, who lives in the southwest community of Palliser, voiced his frustration at the traffic situation that came as a result of the closure of 14 Street and 90 Avenue on Thursday. The closure was in place as part of ongoing construction work along 14 Street S.W.

“14 Street and 90 Avenue should not have been closed with work still being performed on every other way in and out of that area of the city,” Farkas said.

“I’m incredibly disappointed that the closures weren’t better coordinated. I have been repeatedly asking for, and was promised, that this work would be synchronized.”

Farkas said Thursday’s closure and ensuing traffic chaos had residents “trapped in our homes,” which he said was “unacceptable.” His frustrations were echoed by some area residents, who said called the roadway a “traffic trap.”

“I think the traffic on the way back from work was horrendous and I think although people had warning and they knew it was coming, they were not prepared,” Gideon Shoham said.

“I think it could be much more effective if they added more lanes to 14 Street, which is really packed. It’s a $100-million disappointment.”

Full story with BRT-induced nightmarish photos at: https://globalnews.ca/news/5185438/c...-snarl-motion/

[YYCguys]

But why, for the love of Jorge, does it take a City Councillor to live through that nightmare himself for anything to get done? Why couldn’t the people who were planning this from the get go have foreseen this? It’s not rocket science to make sure at least one intersection is completely useable before ripping up another!

[milomilo]

Farkas is a moron, so I will assume that whatever he is saying is wrong and what the city is doing is the correct strategy. The reasoning seems fine to me, shut it over a long weekend when traffic is lowest and get it done quickly, rather than spread the pain over weeks.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Farkas is a moron, so I will assume that whatever he is saying is wrong and what the city is doing is the correct strategy. The reasoning seems fine to me, shut it over a long weekend when traffic is lowest and get it done quickly, rather than spread the pain over weeks.

...except that the closure started one full day BEFORE the long weekend, on a normal workday.

[milomilo]

I guess they need more time then, it would still be better than allocating that time over a normal weekend.

[milomilo]

Honestly, they need to suck it up. They get a few days of inconvenience to save the city money. The SW residents are the most obnoxious NIMBYs in the city, we shouldn't feel any sympathy for them.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I guess they need more time then, it would still be better than allocating that time over a normal weekend.

Then don’t also schedule construction on the only detour routes. It’s called planning.

People will tolerate reasonable delays, but in this case people were abandoning their cars and walking home because that was all they could do. Even residential streets were gridlocked, people could not get out of their driveways.

[milomilo]

That's a fair comment. Farkas is still a moron though. Add more lanes he says, what an imbecile. He literally doesn't understand the basics of road dynamics.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Honestly, they need to suck it up. They get a few days of inconvenience to save the city money. The SW residents are the most obnoxious NIMBYs in the city, we shouldn't feel any sympathy for them.

You're sounding like Suburbia. If the city can't properly plan large projects then they should be doing them as P3s using private consortia that have the knowledge and skills to avoid crap like this. This should be a huge wake-up call to all what a disaster the Green Line could end up being with these idiots in charge.