HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Photography Forums > Found City Photos

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #12701  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 1:57 AM
gus37 gus37 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Deranged L.A. Crimes

Today I stumbled across some info about the Louise Springer murder, and started searching around for any suitable-for-posting crime scene photos, or house then and now photos, or any images that were particularly noirish (there isn't much out there it seems, unlike some of the other notorious cases, which is probably why there wasn't already much here in this thread).

I did find in my searching Joan Renner's Deranged L.A. Crimes blog, which has some pretty interesting LA noir info. I guess she started her blog after becoming obsessed with Aggie Underwood’s work. According to her self-published profile there:
Quote:
Joan Renner is a writer, lecturer, and a social historian with an expertise in historic Los Angeles crime.

She has appeared in the ID Discovery Channel program “Deadly Women”, and in 2013 will appear in three episodes of “Evil Twins”, also on ID Discovery. Joan has appeared in a segment on film noir for the Turner Classic Movie series “Film Fanatics”.

Joan is an archivist at the Los Angeles Police Museum and was an assistant curator for a limited run exhibit based upon the LAPD’s continuing investigation of the 1947 unsolved murder of Elizabeth Short, aka The Black Dahlia”. She is currently editing a book of crime scene photos for the LAPM which will feature narrative by author James Ellroy. The working title of the book is “LAPD ’53″.
So I wondered if anyone here knows much more about Joan or has spent any time reading her blog, or has any other opinions or info (the other name that comes up all over in the Springer search is Steve Hodel, but I'm familiar with his reputation already )
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12702  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 1:58 AM
ethereal_reality's Avatar
ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lafayette/West Lafayette IN, Purdue U.
Posts: 14,449
Flyingwedge, you answered my question and then some. Just an amazing post!


posted by Flyingwedge

...and I agree, the mortar and pestle pharmacy sign is very cool.
__



My earlier post.


posted by ethereal_reality
__

also..

"A sunken 10,000 gallon crude oil tank in the southwest corner of the courthouse lawn."

My God Flyingwedge, you have a knack for finding out these obscure details.

__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Feb 23, 2013 at 2:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12703  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 2:15 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post

court street terminus at court flight, ca. 1940

Ansel Adams

Architecturally not as interesting as the upper station at Angel's Flight but still it is Ansel Adams...
As I'm sure you know, it's this little dead end that Sarah Bixby Smith remembered in Adobe Days, "The level street at Court and Hill, protected on three sides by grades too steep for horses, was our safe, neighborhood playground." (this was circa the early 1880s) A photo from that time has been posted here before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingwedge View Post
In this c. 1906 shot looking I guess NE, we see the church-like building from the side/rear. The Sanborn map marks the slightly smaller building attached to the rear of the "church" as the actual jail; unseen and attached to the back side of the jail is a workshop.
Thank you for the above Flyingwedge. During this whole discussion I kept wondering where the actual cells were.

Last edited by tovangar2; Feb 23, 2013 at 2:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12704  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 3:03 AM
Flyingwedge's Avatar
Flyingwedge Flyingwedge is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Flyingwedge, you answered my question and then some. Just an amazing post!
__

also..

"A sunken 10,000 gallon crude oil tank in the southwest corner of the courthouse lawn."

My God Flyingwedge, you have a knack for finding out these obscure details.

__
Well, all the building detail was on the Sanborn map. I guess the big oil tank was especially important to note on a fire insurance map! Looking for maps and pictures of these old buildings is a fun challenge.

But thank you, ER, not just for founding this thread, but for asking about that building in the first place. Had you not started this line of inquiry, today I would not have discovered, much to my embarrassment, that I didn't have an LA library card. Now I do.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12705  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 4:05 AM
FredH's Avatar
FredH FredH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 675
Southwest Corner of 8th and Olive - 1927


lapl
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12706  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 4:52 AM
FredH's Avatar
FredH FredH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 675
1940 Los Angeles and Hollywood Sightseeing Map

Sorry if we have seen this one before:


lapl

Pan Right
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12707  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 6:50 AM
Flyingwedge's Avatar
Flyingwedge Flyingwedge is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhammon View Post
Apparently the model was made of 1881 Los Angeles as described. Nobody seems to know where it is. I'd also like to know that happened to that 1850's model. Click the L.A. Times blog link for only a little more info.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thed...-angeles-.html
I apologize if this has already been posted, but I recently stumbled across the 1931 newspaper pages showing the 1881 model re-creation:

University of California/Calisphere

Too small to read here all the info here -- individual buildings are numbered by block -- but the map is zoomable at the Calisphere website:
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/...and=calisphere
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12708  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 4:48 PM
Hollywood Graham's Avatar
Hollywood Graham Hollywood Graham is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ojai, Ca.
Posts: 236
Sunset Blvd. Overpass Of Silverlake Blvd.

I grew up in the Silverlake area on the hill to the right of the photo. The construction is the overpass of which will be Silverlake Blvd., this is looking west toward Hollywood. The building below the hill is still there, it housed the Elite Market and upstairs was the Club Zarape. There are typical , for the area, stairs behind the building going up to Westerly Terrace. The precarious apartment perched on the hill is still there also, I always thought it would be relocated to the bottom someday by earthquake.
One of the owners of the Club Zarape was gunned down in front of his home on Westerly Terr. in the early 50's.
[IMG][/IMG]

Photo from Silverlake.org

Last edited by Hollywood Graham; Feb 23, 2013 at 6:09 PM. Reason: photo Problem
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12709  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 5:41 PM
ProphetM ProphetM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by JScott View Post
(Sorry for the large image size, but it's necessary in order to show details.)

At the far right of the 1921 Baist map, "X" marks the spot of the Hall of Justice that preceded the one later erected at Temple and Broadway. I don't recall ever seeing a photo of this building. Has anyone else?


Historic Map Works



Also on the map, "†" marks the true historical location of St. Athanasius, at the southwest corner of Temple and New High. The parallel lines mark the present alignment of Spring Street. By this reckoning, the site of the church is now almost entirely in the roadway of present-day Spring Street.

Unless this approximation of the current alignment of Spring Street is in error, it would appear we split the difference between the church locations as depicted in the two photo superimpositions.
Thanks to your great idea to use the Baist map, I have uploaded a more accurate overlay of St. Athanasius - sitting right in the middle of the street:



How unfortunate!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12710  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 6:15 PM
malumot malumot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
...more on the Hotel Cecil's shady past here (very interesting)

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nationa...-has-dark-past
__
Thanks, ER, but I am getting sick up and fed about hearing of the Cecil's "sordid" past from historically-ignorant local TV newsreaders.

It's an 85 year old hotel, located in a part of town that for decades has been a bit sketchy, to say the least. Is anyone surprised that among the hundreds of thousands of hotel guests there has been some deliciously noir behavior?

And people are "shocked" about this? Paging Inspector Renault.

Most of you are quite familiar with the wonderful On Bunker Hill.....which devotes I'm guessing half its entries to just this sort of noirish sordidness.

A terrible tragedy for the family (and we are as of yet still unsure how it all came to pass). But to Noirish Los Angeles readers - hardly surprising.

After all - The Noirish reader is far more savvy than the average schmoe

http://www.onbunkerhill.org/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12711  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 6:48 PM
GaylordWilshire's Avatar
GaylordWilshire GaylordWilshire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,462


Why do I think that local TV newsreaders are not targeting Noirish Los Angeles or On Bunker Hill readers but rather the average schmoe? And whether one's viewpoint is that of the average schmoe or of someone particularly interested in the underbelly, isn't the Cecil's past, like that of many downtown hotels, actually rather sordid indeed? And what's not great, in noirish terms, about Pauline landing on George?


LAT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12712  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 6:51 PM
belmont bob belmont bob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by malumot View Post
Thanks, ER, but I am getting sick up and fed about hearing of the Cecil's "sordid" past from historically-ignorant local TV newsreaders.

It's an 85 year old hotel, located in a part of town that for decades has been a bit sketchy, to say the least. Is anyone surprised that among the hundreds of thousands of hotel guests there has been some deliciously noir behavior?

And people are "shocked" about this? Paging Inspector Renault.

Most of you are quite familiar with the wonderful On Bunker Hill.....which devotes I'm guessing half its entries to just this sort of noirish sordidness.

A terrible tragedy for the family (and we are as of yet still unsure how it all came to pass). But to Noirish Los Angeles readers - hardly surprising.

After all - The Noirish reader is far more savvy than the average schmoe

http://www.onbunkerhill.org/
Wholly crap; since I’ve become addicted to this forum and have gone through all the pages I’ve filled up my desk top with so many links to all kinds of interesting sites that have begun to boggle my mind. I can’t even begin to keep track of them, but I’m having too much fun to care. Maybe my interpretation of norish is not in line with many of you and since I’m new here I don’t really understand all the background and thought processes each of you have about certain types of crime and the intrigue behind those that live up to this site. However the mean streets of LA that are plagued by gang violence are indeed a tragic problem, but I don’t see that as being “norish” simply because they have nothing to do with the old Los Angeles and the places and times I remember as a kid growing up – they are just turf wars and all about who’s the strongest. So a mysterious death of a young woman found in a water tank in a seedy hotel in a seedy part of town is not a mean street crime of control, but a true norish example of enticement into the realm of “who-don it” and a perfect excuse to make a B movie. So for those of you who created this forum – my thanks go out for a job well done!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12713  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 7:15 PM
belmont bob belmont bob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Graham View Post
I grew up in the Silverlake area on the hill to the right of the photo. The construction is the overpass of which will be Silverlake Blvd., this is looking west toward Hollywood. The building below the hill is still there, it housed the Elite Market and upstairs was the Club Zarape. There are typical , for the area, stairs behind the building going up to Westerly Terrace. The precarious apartment perched on the hill is still there also, I always thought it would be relocated to the bottom someday by earthquake.
One of the owners of the Club Zarape was gunned down in front of his home on Westerly Terr. in the early 50's.
[IMG][/IMG]

Photo from Silverlake.org
Hollywood, this photo is at a place I know very well. I used to ride the Red Car past here every day on my way to Thomas Star King Jr. High from my home on Scott Ave. near Elysian Park. Of course that was c. 1954 long after the overpass was completed. I remember a small meat market just beyond the market on the right maybe even directly under the apartment clinging to the side of the cut. My dad would go there to buy horse meat to feed our cat. Also there was a place right about there that processed and sold turkeys at Thanksgiving time. I remember going there c. 1947 with my mom and grandmother and while they were making their choice I watched a worker stripping the feathers off a bird and removing some of the pin-feathers. I don’t remember whether she had to cut off the head but since the bird was already dead, I’d bet she did. When we got home my grandmother settled into the task of removing the rest of the pin-feathers. Haha – not going to happen today when all we have to do is buy a Butter Ball! or just call in a buy a complete dinner from Von's.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12714  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 7:22 PM
malumot malumot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 184
".......isn't the Cecil's past, like that of many downtown hotels, actually rather sordid indeed?"

Precisely, GW.......That's my issue. Zero context.

The newsreaders imply (Oh My Gosh!!!! Who Knew??!!) that there is this one singular Tower of Terror on Main Street......when we all know that just about any 85 year old hotel is going to have its share.

Every house dick knows that sooner or later he's gonna have a dead body in a hotel room on his hands.......

Re Pauline & George ---....The cops may not know the physics involved, but they know from experience the effects of a nine-story fall.

-----and as for the unfortunate George - of 440 W Third........that would put him up on the Hill, somewhere around Olive, wouldn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire View Post


Why do I think that local TV newsreaders are not targeting Noirish Los Angeles or On Bunker Hill readers but rather the average schmoe? And whether one's viewpoint is that of the average schmoe or of someone particularly interested in the underbelly, isn't the Cecil's past, like that of many downtown hotels, actually rather sordid indeed? And what's not great, in noirish terms, about Pauline landing on George?


LAT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12715  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 7:31 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
I have uploaded a more accurate overlay of St. Athanasius - sitting right in the middle of the street:



How unfortunate!
Not unfortunate at all. There's something delightful about the lot becoming the street and the street becoming the lot.

Thank you again for your amazing work on this and your willingness and enthusiasm to make it as accurate as possible. Excellent work :-) I'm finally able to locate Poundcake Hill in my mind's eye. It was always maddingly elusive before. I hope you forward your version to Paradise Leased.

I'm convinced a book or web site of overlays of key buildings would be a huge hit, especially if focused on the more topographically-messsed-with parts of town.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12716  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 7:53 PM
MichaelRyerson's Avatar
MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Graham View Post
I grew up in the Silverlake area on the hill to the right of the photo. The construction is the overpass of which will be Silverlake Blvd., this is looking west toward Hollywood. The building below the hill is still there, it housed the Elite Market and upstairs was the Club Zarape. There are typical , for the area, stairs behind the building going up to Westerly Terrace. The precarious apartment perched on the hill is still there also, I always thought it would be relocated to the bottom someday by earthquake.
One of the owners of the Club Zarape was gunned down in front of his home on Westerly Terr. in the early 50's.
[IMG][/IMG]

Photo from Silverlake.org
When I was a kid, we lived at the Alfred Lee apartments at 3205 Descanso Drive, just up the street from here. We used to use Silverlake to go out to my grandparent's house in Eagle Rock. Over to the right in your pic, on the rise above Parkman which led down to Silverlake Boulevard, in that longish building there was a lunch counter where we'd stop from time to time. Once my mother's glass of water had a tiny little fish, a guppy, swimming around in it and she called the cook/waiter over to sort of complain about it being in her glass. The guy picks up the glass smiling, like he can't believe his luck, looks at the fish and very carefully puts it up on the pie case, kinda like a gold fish bowl! So everybody can see his fish. He got my mother another glass of water. My father thought it was hilarious. By the way, I remember the Zarape and I've heard there is some evidence Beth Short passed through it with some 'friends' in '46 or '47.

Last edited by MichaelRyerson; Feb 23, 2013 at 10:46 PM. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12717  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 9:30 PM
Mojeda101's Avatar
Mojeda101 Mojeda101 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: DTLA
Posts: 1,410
I was playing LA Noire and I was driving through the mile long subway tunnel all the way to Pasadena. My question is, what is the state of that tunnel today? It is to my understand that it is split in half because of the one of the skyscrapers foundation was directly over it, but of the two sections today, how is it? I saw a documentary that took place in 1994 but a lot could have happened in 19 years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12718  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 9:48 PM
JScott's Avatar
JScott JScott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
Thanks to your great idea to use the Baist map, I have uploaded a more accurate overlay of St. Athanasius - sitting right in the middle of the street

Superb, thank you! The way the curb and the slope of the road match in the two photos is really something. And I agree with tovangar2 that you should forward this to Paradise Leased. This really brings the little old church to life again!
__________________
Covina Past
Los Angeles Past
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12719  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 10:19 PM
kznyc2k's Avatar
kznyc2k kznyc2k is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MANHATTAN
Posts: 1,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
As I'm sure you know, it's this little dead end that Sarah Bixby Smith remembered in Adobe Days, "The level street at Court and Hill, protected on three sides by grades too steep for horses, was our safe, neighborhood playground." (this was circa the early 1880s) A photo from that time has been posted here before.
This area is always worth a second or third look, not least of which because the area has so drastically changed. Here's Sarah's "playground" from around that time:


1890s, LAPL

--

Also, I found another picture showing a sliver of the PE tunnel as it heads under Ft. Moore Hill, and it comes from the wonderful collection of photos by Arnold Hylen. But still no luck finding shots of the north portal!


Arnold Hylen, 1953, Cal State Library
__________________
Politicians, ugly buildings and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12720  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 10:38 PM
kznyc2k's Avatar
kznyc2k kznyc2k is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MANHATTAN
Posts: 1,826
Found these gloriously faded photos on Flickr thanks to user JAVA1888, who reportedly found these "rolled tightly, shaped like a cigar up in the attic" of an abandoned house. No dates are given for any of these.

First we look south down Hill Street from the ledge over the tunnel in between Court and First Streets. The Highland Villa is already gone so that should help with dating:



Another shot from the same vantage point:



Street shot of Broadway and the old Times building:



And one of the Bradbury Mansion looking grown in but not rundown just yet:

__________________
Politicians, ugly buildings and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts

Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Photography Forums > Found City Photos
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:17 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.