The real problem with Vancouver’s outrageous house prices

[CivicBlues]

LOL

Most doctors I know are highly intelligent people and not status chasing numb-skulls that would uproot their families here and into a Mcmansion in the Rust Belt.

[whatnext]

Nobody mentioned Jason Kenney's campaign launched last week to attract Vancouver and Ontario workers to Alberta by touting the much lower cost of housing. Coincidentally someone in my office just a week before gave their notice, as they were moving to Alberta to take advantage of more realistically priced housing. They were keen to start a family and realized they would never be able to afford the kind of home they wanted here, at least without a horrendous commute.

Are lower housing costs and Rocky Mountain views enough to lure Vancouverites to Alberta?
-Alberta economist Mike Holden said the province is struggling with a labour shortage

Courtney Dickson · CBC News · Posted: Aug 18, 2022

This week, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney launched a campaign to attract skilled workers from Vancouver and Toronto to Alberta, promising lower taxes, affordable housing, shorter commutes and the Rocky Mountains.

"I'm standing in front of something that a lot of folks in Toronto, Vancouver, don't get to see very often: the yard of a single-family home," the premier said.

Alberta economist Mike Holden said the province is struggling with a labour shortage, adding: "Albertans see themselves as a welcome place, they want to bring more people here."

To be fair, housing costs in B.C. are the highest in the country. The average price of a home in Vancouver is more than $1.2 million, about twice as much as in Calgary, while the average rent for a two-bedroom apartment in Vancouver is $2,936 a month....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...kers-1.6554103

[Migrant_Coconut]

Joke's on Kenney if he does attract thousands of lefty white collars - that'll be another twenty years of NDP majorities. Same mistake the BC Libs made when they raised housing prices and scattered urbanites out into the suburbs.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Joke's on Kenney if he does attract thousands of lefty white collars - that'll be another twenty years of NDP majorities. Same mistake the BC Libs made when they raised housing prices and scattered urbanites out into the suburbs.

This is a known myth, and you can see the stats that disprove it right across the border with immigration from California and Texas. The people who will consider moving to Alberta and living and working in Calgary are not environmentalist, Starbucks sipping, homelessness advocate, cycling, leftists. They're going to be people that already think Alberta is a better place to live than Vancouver. People that love driving, people that support oil and gas extraction, people that like the governance of Alberta. Dipper Vancouverites that are fed up with housing prices are more likely to move to and commute from Mission than move to Calgary.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by chowhou

This is a known myth, and you can see the stats that disprove it right across the border with immigration from California and Texas. The people who will consider moving to Alberta and living and working in Calgary are not environmentalist, Starbucks sipping, homelessness advocate, cycling, leftists. They're going to be people that already think Alberta is a better place to live than Vancouver. People that love driving, people that support oil and gas extraction, people that like the governance of Alberta. Dipper Vancouverites that are fed up with housing prices are more likely to move to and commute from Mission than move to Calgary.

Funny but my coworker is none of the stereotypes you put forth. And yet they’re moving to Alberta, go figure.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Funny but my coworker is none of the stereotypes you put forth. And yet they’re moving to Alberta, go figure.

Anecdotes are not data. I also know an anti-vax, "Calgary is better than Vancouver because there's no traffic during the day" individual that's moving to Alberta.

Data has shown in the US that people tend to move to jurisdictions that match their politics, they don't tend to move to jurisdictions and change the local politics, and Calgary is not a lefty city. Perhaps your coworker is moving to Edmonton?

[GenWhy?]

If folks want to buy a million dollar home in Airdrie instead of Surrey then that's a-okay.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Anecdotes are not data. I also know an anti-vax, "Calgary is better than Vancouver because there's no traffic during the day" individual that's moving to Alberta.

Data has shown in the US that people tend to move to jurisdictions that match their politics, they don't tend to move to jurisdictions and change the local politics, and Calgary is not a lefty city. Perhaps your coworker is moving to Edmonton?

They were indeed moving to Edmonton.

[MIPS]

I've always been under the impression that unless you are upper executive management, a fully-certified post-secondary student or you are fully prepared to work in the oilpatch either as a geotechnical engineer, pipefitter or welder, there's not a lot else to do in Alberta besides ranching and agriculture. I'm semi-skilled tech sector. IT seems the entry into most operations with my skillsets require at least a BCIT degree. Everything below that bar is otherwise the same as BC in regards to pay and Quality of Life, including high rent in a market competing with seasonal workers.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I guess a dozen or so are working at BioWare?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I've always been under the impression that unless you are upper executive management, a fully-certified post-secondary student or you are fully prepared to work in the oilpatch either as a geotechnical engineer, pipefitter or welder, there's not a lot else to do in Alberta besides ranching and agriculture. I'm semi-skilled tech sector. IT seems the entry into most operations with my skillsets require at least a BCIT degree. Everything below that bar is otherwise the same as BC in regards to pay and Quality of Life, including high rent in a market competing with seasonal workers.

But if you're working full time in hospitality/tourism you can actually afford to buy a place in Alberta, not in Vancouver. Also, not long ago a good waiter in an expensive restaurant downtown could have rented an apartment and walked to work. No longer.

[whatnext]

other thread

[whatnext]

From BIV today. Gosh, what could be causing such an imbalance?

Data ahead of Vancouver election reveals extent of gap between income, home prices
By Chuck Chiang | October 13, 2022, 1:44pm

Just days before the municipal elections in Vancouver, the latest data analysis from a leading urban planning expert in the city again highlighted just how big the affordability problem is for the city and the region at-large.

In the latest analysis by Simon Fraser University City Program director Andy Yan (based on 2021 Census data from Statistics Canada) charting Canadian cities’ 2020 median value of dwellings when compared to household income levels, Vancouver remains a salient outlier in terms of the disparity between prices and people’s wages....

...In the report, Vancouver recorded a 2020 median dwelling value of $1,450,000 – 18 times the amount of the city’s median total income per household ($82,000). Among major Canadian cities, no one else is close to that 18x multiple – including Surrey, which reported a dwelling value of $1 million against a household income average of $98,000, a 10x multiple.

In comparison, the only other major centre (with populations above 1 million in the surround CMA) with a double-digit multiple is Toronto (dwelling value $90,000 – household income $84,000, for an 11x multiple). Meanwhile, Montreal (multiple of 8), Ottawa (multiple of 6), Calgary (multiple of 5) and Edmonton (multiple of 4) all sit below that threshold, indicating a narrower disparity between people’s incomes and housing costs....

....“Vancouver was always expensive, but it wasn’t to this level,” Yan said. “In the 1990s, things were more clustered, and the fact is that it did change from the 1990s to now... The statistics show us that change is possible; in this case, a change to being more affordable is possible. It’s really a question of what kind of leadership can take us there.”...

https://biv.com/article/2022/10/data...me-home-prices

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

From BIV today. Gosh, what could be causing such an imbalance?

Data ahead of Vancouver election reveals extent of gap between income, home prices
By Chuck Chiang | October 13, 2022, 1:44pm

Just days before the municipal elections in Vancouver, the latest data analysis from a leading urban planning expert in the city again highlighted just how big the affordability problem is for the city and the region at-large.

In the latest analysis by Simon Fraser University City Program director Andy Yan (based on 2021 Census data from Statistics Canada) charting Canadian cities’ 2020 median value of dwellings when compared to household income levels, Vancouver remains a salient outlier in terms of the disparity between prices and people’s wages....

...In the report, Vancouver recorded a 2020 median dwelling value of $1,450,000 – 18 times the amount of the city’s median total income per household ($82,000). Among major Canadian cities, no one else is close to that 18x multiple – including Surrey, which reported a dwelling value of $1 million against a household income average of $98,000, a 10x multiple.

In comparison, the only other major centre (with populations above 1 million in the surround CMA) with a double-digit multiple is Toronto (dwelling value $90,000 – household income $84,000, for an 11x multiple). Meanwhile, Montreal (multiple of 8), Ottawa (multiple of 6), Calgary (multiple of 5) and Edmonton (multiple of 4) all sit below that threshold, indicating a narrower disparity between people’s incomes and housing costs....

....“Vancouver was always expensive, but it wasn’t to this level,” Yan said. “In the 1990s, things were more clustered, and the fact is that it did change from the 1990s to now... The statistics show us that change is possible; in this case, a change to being more affordable is possible. It’s really a question of what kind of leadership can take us there.”...

https://biv.com/article/2022/10/data...me-home-prices

Andy Yan should know better, and you can put the dog whistle away. Toronto is an amalgamated city, with over 2.7m people. The City of Vancouver is only a quarter of the 2.6m people in Metro Vancouver - so that's what he should compare with the City of Toronto.

The median household income in Metro Vancouver is $90,000, while the median household income in Toronto is $84,000.

The median value of a dwelling in Metro Vancouver was $1,050,000 and in Toronto was $900,000.

So Metro Vancouver has a multiplier of 12 (not 18) which is very close to Toronto's 11.

The slightly higher value of Vancouver real estate can be explained by the fact that 28% of Vancouver homes in 2021 were single detached, but only 23% of Toronto's are. And Metro Vancouver's homes are newer - 34% of all homes were built in the past 20 years, while only 24% of Toronto's were.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Andy Yan should know better, and you can put the dog whistle away. Toronto is an amalgamated city, with over 2.7m people. The City of Vancouver is only a quarter of the 2.6m people in Metro Vancouver - so that's what he should compare with the City of Toronto.

The median household income in Metro Vancouver is $90,000, while the median household income in Toronto is $84,000.

The median value of a dwelling in Metro Vancouver was $1,050,000 and in Toronto was $900,000.

So Metro Vancouver has a multiplier of 12 (not 18) which is very close to Toronto's 11.

The slightly higher value of Vancouver real estate can be explained by the fact that 28% of Vancouver homes in 2021 were single detached, but only 23% of Toronto's are. And Metro Vancouver's homes are newer - 34% of all homes were built in the past 20 years, while only 24% of Toronto's were.

Yes I’m sure Andy Yan has a racial axe to grind.

It’s always puzzling when white people feel the need to dismiss the experience an education of someone Asian when they present research in their own field.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yes I’m sure Andy Yan has a racial axe to grind.

It’s always puzzling when white people feel the need to dismiss the experience an education of someone Asian when they present research in their own field.

Andy doesn't mention race, and neither did I. I was pointing out he was comparing an amalgamated city with ours, that isn't. I guess it's too difficult for you to grasp that simple discrepancy, and that comparing the two entities with an equivalent population size, they are very similar. I assume that if you looked at certain parts of Toronto you'd find a multiplier of house value to income that is also much higher than the number for the whole city.

The median household income in West Vancouver is $104,000 and the median value of dwellings is $2,500,000. That's a multiplier of 24. Is that about Asians? (There's a smaller proportion of the population in West Van with Chinese mother tongue than in the City of Vancouver with a median house price to median household income multiplier of 18).