USA TODAY | Beyond South Beach: Miami's downtown booms

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by fflint

High profile Chinese money is flowing into San Francisco like gangbusters. Our soon-to-be second tallest building is being financed by Chinese investors, for example. I would say that Chinese money is coming to Miami in addition to the West Coast and other locales. There's a lot of money at play, and more every year.

FWIW, Chinese money is also financing the next Chicago, Gang-designed supertall.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Be it medium or high density, the region as a whole will become denser. Theres no stopping it too. Beyond Miami, many cities are experience quality developments in the residential sector. Brickell on the other hand is experiencing projects that are impressive architecturally, but are also very large at the same time.

The region is already very dense. But dense in a suburban, automobile-centric structure.

The downtown Miami area certainly still has the opportunity to reshape its design and resulting function, though constructing tall condo towers and mega-projects (while they technically will increase "density") is not the means to achieve that. All cities with vibrant, multi-functional urban core neighborhoods attain those characteristics with human-scaled development.

One only needs to take a look across the bay to South Beach to see the principle in effect. Not everything has to be a 50-story condo tower... and shouldn't be, if creating the type of urban environment that Miami constantly seems to aspire to is the goal.

[Private Dick]

One more thing... comparisons to New York need to stop.

Miami is not New York. Miami is nothing like New York. Miami will never be New York.

Miami is Miami... and that's a good thing.

[dc_denizen]

Miami would be set if they eliminated the last parking lots/grassy wastelands/spaghetti junctions close to the heart of downtown. Bring in the Houston developers and add 50 4 to 6 story "wraps" around a parking deck...

Unfortunately, too much of Miami looks like this, see below for a recent pic of downtown Miami:



link

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

One more thing... comparisons to New York need to stop.

Miami is not New York. Miami is nothing like New York. Miami will never be New York.

Miami is Miami... and that's a good thing.

I don't know. A lot of cities would do better to be more like New York, at least in terms of infrastructure/transit, density, efficient use of space, etc. I know it's a cliché for cities to compare themselves to New York, but New York is so singularly impressive in so many ways that are important to urbanism, especially among US cities, that I think there's still a reason for it.

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Miami would be set if they eliminated the last parking lots/grassy wastelands/spaghetti junctions in the heart of downtown. Bring in the Houston developers and add 50 4-story wraps around a parking deck...

Unfortunately, too much of Miami looks like this, see below for a recent pic of Miami:



link

That street is a lot more pedestrian friendly than giant towers atop anti-urban parking podiums. Just increase the width of the sidewalks and add landscaping and urban furniture.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

I don't know. A lot of cities would do better to be more like New York, at least in terms of infrastructure/transit, density, efficient use of space, etc. I know it's a cliché for cities to compare themselves to New York, but New York is so singularly impressive in so many ways that are important to urbanism, especially among US cities, that I think there's still a reason for it.

Sure, I understand what you're saying, but that is not what I'm talking about here.

Erecting tall condo towers does not singularly make a city with Miami's characteristics more like New York. Mega shopping mall/hotel/condo/parking garage developments does not result in "New York". Being "New York" is about being much more than very tall buildings and fancy developments -- rather it's more about emulating those characteristics you mention above (among others) than it is about tall buildings.

Condo developers plunking down 500+ ft towers as investment vehicles does not a city make...certainly not a city like New York. Miami is actually a wonderful living lab to witness this fact. For the amazing number of towers that dramatically changed the Miami skyline over the past decade, Miami's vibrant urban environment certainly has not improved commensurately. And that is directly related to the scale and design of development that has predominated. It will be interesting to watch first-hand if this "next phase" does a better job.

[mhays]

The scale is fine. It's more about auto domination and the related setbacks, podiums, driveways, podiums, etc. If most residents walk or ride transit to work, that's urban. If most drive, at some point the benefit from additional residents can be overridden by that. With retail, while indoor malls can strengthen nodes, it's largely about the street.

[Ant131531]

IMO, I think Atlanta's downtown is superior to Miami's at the moment. Feels more walkable and compact.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

IMO, I think Atlanta's downtown is superior to Miami's at the moment. Feels more walkable and compact.

It definitely is. The greater downtown Miami area is not walkable... there are still some big gaps, still lots of car-oriented suburban-style development, and connectivity between areas is lacking... but it is improving.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by mello

As a native San Diegan I must say I'm jealous. I don't know why more 400 to 500 foot towers aren't penciling out in our downtown and getting built like in MIA. I guess being the receptacle for Brazilian, Russian, and now Chinese capital is helpful. Why Chinese money is starting to go all the way to Miami and bypassing the west coast I don't know maybe state income tax?

Hotel construction seems to be on fire as well. Mhays maybe you can shed some light on why Miami has way more condo starts in its core than SD/LA combined why do these projects continue to pencil out there?

In the last year the Chinese have invested 780 Million in Downtown LA. Between Metropolis and Fig Central there are 7 towers being built around the LA live complex by Shanghai-based Greenland Real Estate and Oceanwide Real Estate Group. I expect development to start on a 3rd mega project this year by Shenzhen Hazens who just purchased the Lux Hotel and 2 additional surrounding lots.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Miami would be set if they eliminated the last parking lots/grassy wastelands/spaghetti junctions close to the heart of downtown. Bring in the Houston developers and add 50 4 to 6 story "wraps" around a parking deck...

Unfortunately, too much of Miami looks like this, see below for a recent pic of downtown Miami:



link

That's Oklahoma! Those grassy parking lots are part of Miami World Center which is about to enter construction (Bloomingdales, Macys etc. plus office, and residential) as well as the central train station which is under construction.


https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8650/...f5dea985_h.jpg

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

That's Oklahoma! Those grassy parking lots are part of Miami World Center which is about to enter construction (Bloomingdales, Macys etc. plus office, and residential) as well as the central train station which is under construction.


https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8650/...f5dea985_h.jpg

Gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous

To be fair, I imagine at the street level it can be quite the nightmare in places. Or at least that's what I read on Transit Miami (great blog btw)

[chris08876]

According to cranespotters, here are the stats for the condo towers for Miami-Dade as of March 2015:

TOTAL TOWERS: 333
PROPOSED TOWERS: 85
PLANNED TOWERS: 126
PRESALE TOWERS: 193
UNDER CONSTRUCTION: 100
COMPLETED TOWERS: 22

This being just condo towers. If we add office, multi-use, rentals, it gets up there in the high 100's for completed.

[bobdreamz]

[QUOTE=UrbanImpact;6952974]That's Oklahoma!



I was just about to ask that Question regarding that pic! There is nowhere in Miami that looks like that! There aren't even Palm trees in sight!

This thread is also about downtown Miami not how many new towers are built on top of parking podiums and the critics saying it lacks urbanity.











Flagler street downtown's main street:















The site of CENTRO a 36 story/400 foot condo with no parking last year:



Aerial of CENTRO today :

[chris08876]

Just wait until all of the new mega developments finish. Downtown will be seriously bulky. Also, Edgewater is growing rapid as well, further elongating the bulk of the skyline. Panorama tower, 400 and 200 South Miami Avenue, 444 Brickell, City Centre Phase 2, Brickell Flatiron, 340 Biscayne, Watson Island, and so on. I could go on, but the amount of new units that Miami 2020 will see is off the charts. If by 2020, there are still deniers of Miami's urban nature, then there is no hope for humanity. And remember guys, its just not the core city, but the satallites that are growing very rapidly. Sunny Isles alone has more going up than most cities, and its not short either.

Amazing pics bobdreamz. One of the few who really cares.

[bobdreamz]

^ Well the pics were taken by Lakelander from Metro Jacksonville.com but he posts here too so the credit goes to him. I was trying to make a point that downtown Miami does have an urban scale at the pedestrian level with older buildings that gets lost in a sea of newer skyscrapers.