PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread - Page 274

ScreamShatter · #**5461** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 12:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Excellent pics! I haven't gotten around to exploring Port Richmond yet. I'll try to do so this summer as I have to go back to college tomorrow.

Port Richmond is definitely prime for development. The only thing that holds it back is the massive Lehigh Viaduct. When I read the Philadelphia 2035 River Wards District Plan, there was something in there about improvements to the Viaduct. I forget what they are now, but they looked great in the plans!

Port Richmond is definitely in a prime location from some spillover from Fishtown. Its boom might be more limited that other areas like NoLibs, Kensington, Fishtown, Francisville, and Point Breeze as all of those areas that have better access to public trans than Port Richmond. That said, the Del Ave expansion helps make that area more attractive too.

1487 · #**5462** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 12:28 PM**

Building boom continues to reverberate northeast of Center City

Development in fishtown and kensington:

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...nter_City.html

summersm343 · #**5463** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 1:29 PM**

New townhouses fit on a site near Fitler Square

24th Street between Spruce and Locust Streets

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...aoog4LbiqCw.99

jsbrook · #**5464** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 2:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

New townhouses fit on a site near Fitler Square

24th Street between Spruce and Locust Streets

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...aoog4LbiqCw.99

$2.65 million to $3.5 million. That's a lot of cheddar. These should be nice.

Tlphila · #**5465** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Port Richmond is definitely in a prime location from some spillover from Fishtown. Its boom might be more limited that other areas like NoLibs, Kensington, Fishtown, Francisville, and Point Breeze as all of those areas that have better access to public trans than Port Richmond. That said, the Del Ave expansion helps make that area more attractive too.

Great points Scream, but what I'm thinking is where else does the development have to go? Olde Kensington is mostly spoken for by developers and already pretty expensive. Norris Sq. has a deeply ingrained anti gentrification mindset in place, and the area's to its north and west have a ton of blight and section 8 etc. Port Richmond is a safe, established, somewhat charming neighborhood abeit far from the action, but they use to say that about Fishtown. I am just blown away by the amount of construction in this whole area right now, especially the area bt. the el and Frankford Ave.

Arch+Eng · #**5466** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 4:11 PM**

Where do you think gentrification will happen next?

PhiLaw · #**5467** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 4:29 PM**

Let me preface this by saying that this is only speculation at this point. However, I spoke to one of the top people at Vanguard this morning. This person told me that Vanguard has had some preliminary talks about moving into the city, either in whole or in part. Apparently they are having trouble competing for young talent. Talks supposedly began with the Nutter administration. Again, although this person is credible and very high on the Vanguard food chain, at this point it is still hearsay. Don't ask me who it is because I will not reveal the source. But it's something to be excited about as we hopefully begin to hear some chatter about it in the coming months/years.

jjv007 · #**5468** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 4:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Let me preface this by saying that this is only speculation at this point. However, I spoke to one of the top people at Vanguard this morning. This person told me that Vanguard has had some preliminary talks about moving into the city, either in whole or in part. Apparently they are having trouble competing for young talent. Talks supposedly began with the Nutter administration. Again, although this person is credible and very high on the Vanguard food chain, at this point it is still hearsay. Don't ask me who it is because I will not reveal the source. But it's something to be excited about as we hopefully begin to hear some chatter about it in the coming months/years.

This would be a game changer.

Tlphila · #**5469** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 4:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Where do you think gentrification will happen next?

My top 5, of neighborhoods yet to see any large scale gentrification.. no particular order: Lower Moyamensing, Port Richmond, Grays Ferry, Mantua, 52nd Street corridor.

Tlphila · #**5470** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 4:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Let me preface this by saying that this is only speculation at this point. However, I spoke to one of the top people at Vanguard this morning. This person told me that Vanguard has had some preliminary talks about moving into the city, either in whole or in part. Apparently they are having trouble competing for young talent. Talks supposedly began with the Nutter administration. Again, although this person is credible and very high on the Vanguard food chain, at this point it is still hearsay. Don't ask me who it is because I will not reveal the source. But it's something to be excited about as we hopefully begin to hear some chatter about it in the coming months/years.

This would be unbelievably amazing for this city, from your mouth to gods ears PhiLaw!!!

ScreamShatter · #**5471** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 4:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tlphila

Great points Scream, but what I'm thinking is where else does the development have to go? Olde Kensington is mostly spoken for by developers and already pretty expensive. Norris Sq. has a deeply ingrained anti gentrification mindset in place, and the area's to its north and west have a ton of blight and section 8 etc. Port Richmond is a safe, established, somewhat charming neighborhood abeit far from the action, but they use to say that about Fishtown. I am just blown away by the amount of construction in this whole area right now, especially the area bt. the el and Frankford Ave.

Honestly, I think it depends on how both transit and commercial corridors develop. To me it looks like most the development is spreading within blocks of Frankford Ave and inward to Front St. That pretty much includes various neighborhoods in “Kensington” like Fishtown, Olde Kensington, East Kensington, Flat Iron, etc (people tend to forget that Fishtown is part of Kensington proper, but it is). If Front St starts to pick up steam like Frankford Ave (which it looks like it might) then I wouldn’t be surprised in Norris Square gets redeveloped, despite their opposition.

To your point though, there are certain ward leaders who will try to fight to keep gentrification from happening (*cough* Sanchez). Realistically, the new residents moving into Fishtown and other Kensington neighborhoods will influence elections and even potentially the way voting districts/wards are drawn in 2020. Also, a lot of the development going on in East Kensington is being driven by the Russian mob so I’ll let you speculate if the mob developers and “rich whites” (as locals call the new people moving in) will yield more influence over development than Sanchez and her backers.

That’s not to say that Port Richmond won’t get in on the action. But truthfully, if development starts to spread down American St and Front St the way that it is spreading down Frankford Ave then I think it’s only a matter of time before there’s so much pressure to redevelop Norris Square, especially since they have 3 good El Stops and multiple large roads in its areas. That’s my guess….

Arch+Eng · #**5472** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

neighborhoods in “Kensington” like Fishtown, Olde Kensington, East Kensington, Flat Iron

There is a neighborhood called flatiron? When did you guys make that one up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tlphila

My top 5, of neighborhoods yet to see any large scale gentrification.. no particular order: Lower Moyamensing, Port Richmond, Grays Ferry, Mantua, 52nd Street corridor.

...really Lower Moyamensing? What do you speculate that the stadiums will drive the gentrification? I can't see that neighborhood gentrifying with it being so far away from CC.

ScreamShatter · #**5473** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 5:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Where do you think gentrification will happen next?

I’d like to see certain corridors developed, for instance: Ridge Ave, N. Broad St, Germantown Ave (from Girard to N Broad), American, Girard, and Front St. Many of those roads previously held the key to a thriving North Philly, and I still think they are important as they are truly some of the most centrally located areas throughout the entire city.

ScreamShatter · #**5474** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

There is a neighborhood called flatiron? When did you guys make that one up?

Honestly, I didn’t know about it either until I moved into East Kensington. But it’s supposed to be the area between York/Lehigh & Trenton/Aramingo. It’s another neighborhood that is part of “Kensington.”

Tlphila · #**5475** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

There is a neighborhood called flatiron? When did you guys make that one up?

...really Lower Moyamensing? What do you speculate that the stadiums will drive the gentrification? I can't see that neighborhood gentrifying with it being so far away from CC.

I think the stadiums being close is a side benefit but not one of the main drivers. The drivers are East Passyunk Ave. and 2 stops along the BSL. The neighborhood looks very similar to East Passyunk, is literally a block from Passyunk Ave itself and is significantly cheaper. Oh and the Navy Yard is pretty close as well!

Parkway · #**5476** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 5:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

There is a neighborhood called flatiron? When did you guys make that one up?

Flat Iron is actually a very old name for an area south of Trenton Ave that has mostly been absorbed into Fishtown. Really it's part of East Kensington.

Arch+Eng · #**5477** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tlphila

I think the stadiums being close is a side benefit but not one of the main drivers. The drivers are East Passyunk Ave. and 2 stops along the BSL. The neighborhood looks very similar to East Passyunk, is literally a block from Passyunk Ave itself and is significantly cheaper. Oh and the Navy Yard is pretty close as well!

Good Points, + SP is pretty condensed so your never more then a bike ride away from CC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

I’d like to see certain corridors developed, for instance: Ridge Ave, N. Broad St, Germantown Ave (from Girard to N Broad), American, Girard, and Front St. Many of those roads previously held the key to a thriving North Philly, and I still think they are important as they are truly some of the most centrally located areas throughout the entire city.

I agree with all of this. Can't wait to see these streets thriving again. Hopefully I am apart of that movement.

PhilliesPhan · #**5478** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 5:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Where do you think gentrification will happen next?

Street-wise, I can see the North Broad corridor between Vine and Lehigh Avenue. There is no reason why there should be empty lots along North Broad Street when there is excellent BSL access, even with 24 hour access on Fridays and Saturdays and express stops at Girard and Spring Garden.

As far as neighborhoods go, Mantua is definitely going to be gentrified. As gentrification pushes further west in West Philadelphia, 52nd Street between at least Market Street and Baltimore Avenue should be a major commercial corridor. Grays Ferry could undergo gentrification if Point Breeze fully gentrifies. Finally, I have faith that Strawberry Mansion and the triangle of West Philadelphia composed of Girard Avenue, 52nd Street, and Parkside Avenue. Both of these areas have excellent access to Fairmount Park.

1487 · #**5479** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Where do you think gentrification will happen next?

Mantua and north Philly east of broad, north of Girard.

hammersklavier · #**5480** Posted **Mar 28, 2016, 6:24 PM**

-Jannie Blackwell is the single most significant anti-gentrification force in West Philly ... Right now there is slow percolation there, but I'll bet the floodgates open once she (finally!) kicks the bucket. (This includes both Mantua and the 52nd Street corridor.)

-There are no significant barriers blocking spread in West and Southwest Philly all the way north to the R5. And even then, once you're on the other side of that, you have a narrow corridor between railroad and park

-The rest of Point Breeze, Grays Ferry, and Dickinson Narrows are the South Philly neighborhoods most likely to see redevelopment. Lower Moyamensing is already extremely stable, an old-guard South Philly neighborhood.

-I used to wonder how strong of a barrier the Lehigh Viaduct would prove. Happily, redevelopment seems to be spilling over into Port Richmond. The River Wards pattern seems to be that the area between the El and Frankford is the spine: once that fills in, riverwards redevelopment happens; once that fills in, landward redevelopment happens.

-The Broad Street corridor in general is massively underdeveloped. But it's also larger parcels that seem to require major redevelopment of adjacent neighborhoods to pencil out. So far, the line has yet to spark major redevelopment in its own right. But once it does, Broad Street will likely become -- like the El in the River Wards -- the main redevelopment driver in North Philly. (Also keep in mind that South Philly is nearly "full", i.e. most of the vacant/blighted parcels have already seen redevelopment.)

-I'm not terribly sanguine on Strawberry Mansion. It feels disconnected from CC and is a fairly long bus ride away. A bigger issue is that the Northeast Corridor is a tremendous psychological divide between it and the nabes south. I think that Strawberry Mansion will start to redevelop when Parkside does, i.e. when Fairmount Park becomes a significant driver of redevelopment in its own right.

-Something I'd like to keep an eye on is if areas easily accessed from major bike routes start to redevelop in their own right, as we lay down better infrastructure.