HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


View Poll Results: Which party do you plan to vote for in the 2019 federal election?
Conservative Party 73 25.61%
Liberal Party 119 41.75%
NDP 44 15.44%
Green Party 27 9.47%
Peoples Party of Canada 22 7.72%
Voters: 285. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #4701  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 9:32 PM
thurmas's Avatar
thurmas thurmas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 2,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That's a question for another thread, and sooner than later I will need to go vote, throw dinner together and take my kids to their activities... so à la prochaine on this one.
Sounds good as I would be interested to hear your thoughts on it. Bon appetit
     
     
  #4702  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 9:33 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 19,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
No, I’m pretty sure that it’s now the rule that they go up 4 each time, no matter what.
I believe it was three seats last time, not four, and the only assurance is that the proportionality of Quebec's seats will be maintained (i.e. its percentage of MPs will likely decline over time). That said, I haven't read the Fair Representation Act, so I may have it wrong.
     
     
  #4703  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 9:52 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
It was the price of Confederation.
...
Meh, no offense to PEI but would anyone really care if it wasn't part of Canada? I guess we'd lose claim to the Anne of Green Gables mythology but that's about it...
     
     
  #4704  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 10:00 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 19,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Meh, no offense to PEI but would anyone really care if it wasn't part of Canada? I guess we'd lose claim to the Anne of Green Gables mythology but that's about it...
Be nice now! PEI is so cute ...

Although potatoes, Malpeque oysters, and Paderno cookware also come to mind. I love my Paderno cookware!
     
     
  #4705  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 10:01 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Be nice now! PEI is so cute ...
Yeah, but it could just as easily be another St.Pierre & Miquelon, the ROC wouldn't notice.
     
     
  #4706  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 10:28 PM
Andy6's Avatar
Andy6 Andy6 is offline
Starring as himself
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto Yorkville
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I believe it was three seats last time, not four, and the only assurance is that the proportionality of Quebec's seats will be maintained (i.e. its percentage of MPs will likely decline over time). That said, I haven't read the Fair Representation Act, so I may have it wrong.
It was three (sorry about that). Quebec gets exactly its share of the number of seats as its population would require, while the other three large provinces don't. Quebec gets this privilege because it has been overrepresented in the past, which is kind of odd, under the "representation rule". So, if I'm reading the representation rule correctly, it would seem that Quebec may actually lose seats at the next redistribution, unless they come up with another "rule".
__________________
crispy crunchy light and snappy
     
     
  #4707  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 10:28 PM
Andy6's Avatar
Andy6 Andy6 is offline
Starring as himself
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto Yorkville
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Meh, no offense to PEI but would anyone really care if it wasn't part of Canada? I guess we'd lose claim to the Anne of Green Gables mythology but that's about it...
Well, at the time of Confederation they would probably have cared if it had become part of the United States of America, for example.
__________________
crispy crunchy light and snappy
     
     
  #4708  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 10:34 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 19,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
It was three (sorry about that). Quebec gets exactly its share of the number of seats as its population would require, while the other three large provinces don't. Quebec gets this privilege because it has been overrepresented in the past, which is kind of odd, under the "representation rule". So, if I'm reading the representation rule correctly, it would seem that Quebec may actually lose seats at the next redistribution, unless they come up with another "rule".
Somebody else could do the math, but I suspect that Quebec will continue to add MPs, just fewer than Ontario, BC and Alberta and with the result that their percentage of the total will decline.

But yes, a completely new "rule" could be developed - for example by a Bloc-supported Conservative government. It's due in 2021, isn't it?
     
     
  #4709  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 10:36 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Astineux
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada (see below*)
Posts: 46,218
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Be nice now! PEI is so cute ...

Although potatoes, Malpeque oysters, and Paderno cookware also come to mind. I love my Paderno cookware!
I never did get the urge to offhandedly disrespect other provinces. Especially for something involving so little power as this.
__________________
*An assembly of shareholders that likes to pretend it is a close-knit family, in order to maintain access to grandpa's inheritance.

Still a really nice group of people to spend Christmas dinner with, though.
     
     
  #4710  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 10:46 PM
wave46 wave46 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Meh, no offense to PEI but would anyone really care if it wasn't part of Canada? I guess we'd lose claim to the Anne of Green Gables mythology but that's about it...
This might be the first anti-PEI post in the history of SSP Canada.

"Down with PEI! Down with PEI!" the angry mob chanted.

We'll take back our country without those dirty Prince Edward Islanders and their 4 MPs ruining our country!

     
     
  #4711  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:02 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I never did get the urge to offhandedly disrespect other provinces. Especially for something involving so little power as this.
I'm not surprised a Quebecker would try and dissemble on this. But the principle is important, why should one province be accorded special status in having their votes count for more? Why should one province have ridings where the MP has the luxury of handling relatively few citizens concerns compared to the other provinces? The 121,474 Canadians living in the riding of North Okanagan Shuswap get one MP, the 153,244 residents of PEI get four.

The fact that such status is accorded to a relatively inconsequential province <sorry not sorry> just makes it more irritating.
     
     
  #4712  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:06 PM
Loco101's Avatar
Loco101 Loco101 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Timmins, Northern Ontario
Posts: 4,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I'm not surprised a Quebecker would try and dissemble on this. But the principle is important, why should one province be accorded special status in having their votes count for more? Why should one province have ridings where the MP has the luxury of handling relatively few citizens concerns compared to the other provinces? The 121,474 Canadians living in the riding of North Okanagan Shuswap get one MP, the 153,244 residents of PEI get four.

The fact that such status is accorded to a relatively inconsequential province <sorry not sorry> just makes it more irritating.
There's no equality in a democracy. But the other systems are worse.
     
     
  #4713  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:08 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I'm not surprised a Quebecker would try and dissemble on this. But the principle is important, why should one province be accorded special status in having their votes count for more? Why should one province have ridings where the MP has the luxury of handling relatively few citizens concerns compared to the other provinces? The 121,474 Canadians living in the riding of North Okanagan Shuswap get one MP, the 153,244 residents of PEI get four.

The fact that such status is accorded to a relatively inconsequential province <sorry not sorry> just makes it more irritating.
We made a deal way back when PEI’s population was a different ratio to our own. We have to keep our deals especially when the sacrifice isn’t costly. 4 seats is not going to change much. PEI is honestly ignored no matter who they elect.
     
     
  #4714  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:14 PM
wave46 wave46 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by misher View Post
We made a deal way back when PEI’s population was a different ratio to our own. We have to keep our deals especially when the sacrifice isn’t costly. 4 seats is not going to change much. PEI is honestly ignored no matter who they elect.
In theory, the disproportionate number of MPs our smaller provinces have is unfair, but from an actual pragmatic perspective the few MPs wield almost no effective political power.

Life in this country revolves around Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and BC. So, I'm not super concerned about a smaller population province getting more than their share.

I'd actually like to see the smaller provinces get some attention and this seems to be a way of doing that, even if it is 'unfair'.
     
     
  #4715  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:21 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
In theory, the disproportionate number of MPs our smaller provinces have is unfair, but from an actual pragmatic perspective the few MPs wield almost no effective political power.

Life in this country revolves around Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and BC. So, I'm not super concerned about a smaller population province getting more than their share.

I'd actually like to see the smaller provinces get some attention and this seems to be a way of doing that, even if it is 'unfair'.
It will come as a surprise to British Columbians that life in this country revolves in any way around us.
     
     
  #4716  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:29 PM
wave46 wave46 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
It will come as a surprise to British Columbians that life in this country revolves in any way around us.
It just may tonight.
     
     
  #4717  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:30 PM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Shoehorn Freeway ca 2017
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Nowhere on the 17 or 417, actually
Posts: 5,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
It just may tonight.
Yea, how often does it happen that we won’t know the outcome until we count the last ballot in BC?
__________________
We'll soon begin work to extend Highway 417 to Renfrew, first replacing the intersection of Calabogie Road with an interchange!

On va prolonger l'Autoroute 417 jusqu'à Renfrew à bientôt, tout en remplaçant l'intersection du Chemin Calabogie à un échangeur d'abord!
     
     
  #4718  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 11:30 PM
Andy6's Avatar
Andy6 Andy6 is offline
Starring as himself
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto Yorkville
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Somebody else could do the math, but I suspect that Quebec will continue to add MPs, just fewer than Ontario, BC and Alberta and with the result that their percentage of the total will decline.

But yes, a completely new "rule" could be developed - for example by a Bloc-supported Conservative government. It's due in 2021, isn't it?
It's actually very interesting - I think I've figured it out.

The representation rule (bizarrely) states that if a province was overrepresented last time and (after applying all the other rules) would be underrepresented this time, then it gets a top-up to the "correct" level of representation. The 3 seats that Quebec got are that top-up. This was not part of the 1985 Act, but is instead the product of a 2011 amendment. That's why Quebec's representation suddenly jumped after being 75 all that time (the reason it stayed at 75 was because Quebec's share of the population was declining, but the 1985 Act made each province's 1985 seat total into a perpetual floor for that province).

Anyway, what they're now doing is:
  1. Everyone gets their proportional number of seats by dividing the national population by the number of MPs (call it N, whatever that is going to be);
  2. Then the bonus seats are added (whether those that are constitutionally required in PEI and NB or the 11th NS seat and the extra MB and SK seats that are "grandfathered" back to 1985);
  3. Then they re-do the proportionality calculation to account for the addition of all the bonus seats (because now the number of seats is not N anymore, but N + B);
  4. At this point, the 4 big provinces are all "underrepresented", because their seats were allocated based on the first calculation and none of them gets any bonus seats. Every other province is overrepresented, so we're done with them.
  5. This underrepresentation is corrected by the "representation rule", but only in the case of a province that was previously overrepresented -- a description that applies only to one province, Quebec, whose 75 seats in the last redistribution amounted to an overrepresentation.

So the upshot is that Quebec gets three extra seats, I guess because they desperately needed to give Ontario, Alberta and B.C. a lot more and couldn't bear the optics of not giving Quebec something as well (while realizing that to give Quebec more seats and also increase ON, AB and BC proportionally to match that would have resulted in far too many new MPs). It also sounds good because it's only ensuring that Quebec is "correctly represented", and who could disagree with that? (leaving out the information that Ontario, Alberta and BC are underrepresented - someone has got to be, in order to balance out the bonus seats).

But at the next redistribution, the representation rule presumably won't apply to Quebec, since it is not currently overrepresented. It might still get additional seats but I suspect it would be more likely to lose seats. For example, if the population of every province remained the same and the House of Commons remained the same size, Quebec would get 75 seats, not its current 78 (even though nothing would have changed numerically). I'm surprised that they left that possibility open.
__________________
crispy crunchy light and snappy
     
     
  #4719  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2019, 12:58 AM
Denscity Denscity is offline
Suburbs Suck
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Castlegar BC
Posts: 8,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Yea, how often does it happen that we won’t know the outcome until we count the last ballot in BC?
This never happens. It was always over by the time Ontario voted.
__________________
Daily 1 hour flights from YCG to YVR & YYC on ACX
British Columbia is named after the Columbia River, a 4 minute walk from my house
Exactly halfway between Vancouver and Calgary
castlegar.ca
     
     
  #4720  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2019, 1:00 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 19,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I'm not surprised a Quebecker would try and dissemble on this. But the principle is important, why should one province be accorded special status in having their votes count for more? Why should one province have ridings where the MP has the luxury of handling relatively few citizens concerns compared to the other provinces? The 121,474 Canadians living in the riding of North Okanagan Shuswap get one MP, the 153,244 residents of PEI get four.

The fact that such status is accorded to a relatively inconsequential province <sorry not sorry> just makes it more irritating.
It's irritating that that's the deal that was negotiated and that we've kept the bargain? Seems like good form to me.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:04 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.