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  #641  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2020, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by memph View Post
I think South Florida and Chicagoland are pretty neck to neck in terms of total highrises actually. But Chicago's skyline is undoubtedly more impressive because you can get all of it in one shot and it's taller.
Depending on where you place the basement for "highrise" classification, perhaps. However, as you pointed out, "South Florida" and "Chicagoland" are not skylines, but rather vast urban areas of over 1,000 sq. miles.

When we compare the actual skylines in the central cities we get the following (including U/C):


over 400m:
Chicago - 2
Miami - 0


over 350m:
Chicago - 3
Miami - 0


over 300m:
Chicago - 7
Miami - 0


over 250m:
Chicago - 17
Miami - 1


over 200m:
Chicago - 37
Miami - 9


over 150m:
Chicago - 133
Miami - 62


over 100m:
Chicago - 338
Miami - 127


Source: CTBUH



As the data clearly indicate, Chicago is firmly ahead.

The Miami skyline is definitely in 3rd for 150m buildings, but it could really use some taller stuff to take it to the next level.
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  #642  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2020, 1:19 PM
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South Florida takes in a lot of geography; South Beach on up to Fort Lauderdale which is filthy with highrises but nothing like Chicago.
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  #643  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2020, 3:06 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Depending on where you place the basement for "highrise" classification, perhaps. However, as you pointed out, "South Florida" and "Chicagoland" are not skylines, but rather vast urban areas of over 1,000 sq. miles.

When we compare the actual skylines in the central cities we get the following (including U/C):


over 400m:
Chicago - 2
Miami - 0


over 350m:
Chicago - 3
Miami - 0


over 300m:
Chicago - 7
Miami - 0


over 250m:
Chicago - 17
Miami - 1


over 200m:
Chicago - 37
Miami - 9


over 150m:
Chicago - 133
Miami - 62


over 100m:
Chicago - 338
Miami - 127


Source: CTBUH



As the data clearly indicate, Chicago is firmly ahead.

The Miami skyline is definitely in 3rd for 150m buildings, but it could really use some taller stuff to take it to the next level.
Obivously Chicago has a larger skyline than Miami. I guess the question was "South Florida" and "Chicagoland" and a simple count of buildings over 10/12 stories tall or so. The difference between the two is the how spread South Florida's is. There are over 1000 highrises outside the central city in South Florida's case. Uncountable 10-20 story buildings running up the coast in about 100 cities from Miami to West Palm (like if Chicagoland's highrises extended up to Milwaukee). Of course Chicago has a unquestionably larger skyline (beefier, taller...etc).
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  #644  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2020, 3:20 PM
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The big difference to me is how much more dense Chicago is.

Even downtown Miami/Brickell area has plenty of empty lots. And Miami really lacks in the balance of height department. The construction boom of the last 20 years in Miami has built mainly 50-story condo buildings. There’s just a ton of that same shit, and a visible lack of intermediate height.
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  #645  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2020, 5:01 PM
memph memph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
Obivously Chicago has a larger skyline than Miami. I guess the question was "South Florida" and "Chicagoland" and a simple count of buildings over 10/12 stories tall or so. The difference between the two is the how spread South Florida's is. There are over 1000 highrises outside the central city in South Florida's case. Uncountable 10-20 story buildings running up the coast in about 100 cities from Miami to West Palm (like if Chicagoland's highrises extended up to Milwaukee). Of course Chicago has a unquestionably larger skyline (beefier, taller...etc).
Yeah, their metro areas both have around 1300 buildings in the SSP database (10-12 storey cut-off). So by that metric they're on par, but I'm not arguing that it makes sense to look at only the number of highrises without taking into account size, geographic distribution, etc.
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  #646  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2020, 6:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I wasn't targeting a French/Anglo transition..Just an equivalent hard cultural transition between states like you would see here. I admit, I don't have enough experience on that, so I was just grasping a bit at straws at the LA and Texas example.As well, the Quebec/ON transition is not necessarily a huge change, but it is there and noticeable.

.
When you think about it, Ottawa really is predominantly anglophone because it's in Ontario and Gatineau is predominantly francophone because it's in Quebec.

(For some reason, you don't have this going on as much in smaller communities, so regardless of the border you have lots of French on both sides of the Quebec-Ontario boundary in the Hawkesbury area, and you have lots of English on both sides in the Pembroke area.)

I am trying to think of places in the U.S. where demographics tend to stay on one side of the state border because they feel "safer" or at least more at home. I am not aware of any. Though this does exist of course in lots places in the U.S. when it comes to municipal boundaries.
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  #647  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2020, 4:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
Obivously Chicago has a larger skyline than Miami.
And that's all I was trying to point out.

In the US we have a very clear #1 skyline and a very clear #2 skyline.

But after that it gets a lot more muddled with a handful of contenders for 3rd place.

Miami definitely impresses with its mass of 500+ footers, but it lacks upper end height.

And on the other hand, you have Philly with a good deal of top end height, but not nearly as much overall bulk as Miami.

And then you have Houston, LA, and SF in the discussion as well with good amounts of both height and bulk.

It's not straightforward like it is with the first two.
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  #648  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2020, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
When you think about it, Ottawa really is predominantly anglophone because it's in Ontario and Gatineau is predominantly francophone because it's in Quebec.

(For some reason, you don't have this going on as much in smaller communities, so regardless of the border you have lots of French on both sides of the Quebec-Ontario boundary in the Hawkesbury area, and you have lots of English on both sides in the Pembroke area.)

I am trying to think of places in the U.S. where demographics tend to stay on one side of the state border because they feel "safer" or at least more at home. I am not aware of any. Though this does exist of course in lots places in the U.S. when it comes to municipal boundaries.
There probably is..And I get you when you mention that "safe and at home" feeling when you cross that provincial border. I'm sure that feeling is fairly normal actually, but my only experience is the ON/QC border, or the Canada/U.S border.
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  #649  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2020, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Doady View Post
Canadians are the ones who should envy the US. NYC is still #1 in terms skyscrapers and density and urbanity and transit. Even if Toronto had 20 million people it would not be anywhere close to the same level as NYC.

It is weird though such a big gap between NYC and the rest of country, like NYC vs. OKC, it's like night and day. Toronto isn't really that different from the rest of Canada. USA is known for widening gaps, Canada isn't really like that.

Canada has nothing to compare to OKC but it has nothing to compare to NYC either.
The GTA is more like a Miami on steroids than anything like NYC. This is partly because it's a much newer megacity composed of a patchwork of freeways , subdivisions, business parks, industrial parks, plazas, arterial roads, tower-in-the-park apartments, and skyscraper (edit mostly highrise condominium) nodes that knit together a bunch of old former towns and streetcar suburbs.

As far as I know New York dosent have retail-less arterial roads (bounded by backyards, fences and landscaping on either side ) that are so commonplace in the suburban GTA and 905.

The prewar stock and centralized nature of Montréal and the swaths of high density walkup apartment homes , make it the closest Canadian cousin to New York as opposed to Toronto in terms of built form.

Last edited by yaletown_fella; Jul 1, 2020 at 3:10 PM.
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  #650  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2020, 3:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I do envy Canadian cities a bit. Like compared to the American counterparts, they seem to offer a more of a in-your-face-urban-experience. We have our set of shining beacons in the states, but also many atrocious examples. Canadian cities though... they are nice (most of them). Some of them do have ugly sprawl, but not on the level of the U.S. cities. Some U.S. cities, are just travesties. Both in urban form, and efficiency. So I gotta give credit to Canada, they are doing okay with respect to cities/metros and their efficiency (density helps).
It bears mentioning that US and Canadian metros were far more similar just 20-30 years ago. Since then, they've been diverging and it's largely due to a shift in Canadian urban planning policies. There are surely tons of Americans that want denser and more urban cities but the move in that direction has been far weaker. Perhaps in the US there's weaker municipal government, stronger self interest groups, and fewer regulations.
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  #651  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2020, 5:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
It bears mentioning that US and Canadian metros were far more similar just 20-30 years ago. Since then, they've been diverging and it's largely due to a shift in Canadian urban planning policies. There are surely tons of Americans that want denser and more urban cities but the move in that direction has been far weaker. Perhaps in the US there's weaker municipal government, stronger self interest groups, and fewer regulations.
With regard to the GTA and Ontario in general, much of the change in planning is coming from the province more so than the municipal governments themselves. The province in the end has all the power, and can force any policy on the municipalities if it wants to.
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  #652  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2020, 4:55 PM
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you know what other city has exploded in high rise growth, due to very progressive urban planning policies?

Panama City, Panama

Panama City growing upwards by Christa Wiederhold, on Flickr

just need some zoning changes and viola
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  #653  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2020, 5:01 PM
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Can you elaborate on which planning policies have changed, when these changes occurred, and the stated intentions behind them? Unfortunately, many of us north of the Rio Grande aren't that familiar with the planning environment in Central America.
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  #654  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2020, 6:28 PM
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I think Canada and US planning already started diverging in 50s and 60s. Look at post-war subdivisions like Thorncliffe Park or Flemingdon Park or Montreal-Nord.

Calgary is almost pure post-war but high-rise construction and transit ridership is around the same as Philadelphia and Boston.

It is just different culture and different attitudes toward government in Canada vs. US. You can see it in the way the two countries are handling the coronavirus too. Coronavirus is out of control in the US the same way that sprawl is out of control.
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