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  #11521  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 3:01 PM
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^ Hear me out, but what if the City started, and the Province funded an actual social service agency tasked with helping the homeless instead of the current approach of trying to make all civic services (transit, libraries, parks and recreation, police, fire, paramedics, probably others I'm not thinking of) deal with the fallout from that problem even though it has nothing to do with their core mission?
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  #11522  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:21 PM
anthonyk anthonyk is offline
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Looks like this was just posted yesterday, I haven't dug too deep into the presentation boards but there definitely seems like there would be some interesting information in here.

https://engage.winnipeg.ca/eastern-corridor-study
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  #11523  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:50 PM
WildCake WildCake is offline
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Originally Posted by anthonyk View Post
Looks like this was just posted yesterday, I haven't dug too deep into the presentation boards but there definitely seems like there would be some interesting information in here.

https://engage.winnipeg.ca/eastern-corridor-study
That's where I got my information for my rant that was posted on the previous page
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  #11524  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Hear me out, but what if the City started, and the Province funded an actual social service agency tasked with helping the homeless instead of the current approach of trying to make all civic services (transit, libraries, parks and recreation, police, fire, paramedics, probably others I'm not thinking of) deal with the fallout from that problem even though it has nothing to do with their core mission?
That would be great. There used to be a collection of neighbourhood organizations that did exactly that. They were the first to get their funding slashed because they were not "frontline" services. People who worked for them have moved away or moved on to private-sector work. It will be hard to rebuild.
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  #11525  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 9:32 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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So, Winnipeg Transit still doesn't have anyone qualifies to run a transit agency.

Burying stations out of the way instead of providing service where people actually live and work.

Tagging the project onto a stroadification of the Louise Bridge. Watch them be surprised when Sutherland turns into a traffic sewer and bus service ends up slower.

Razing a bunch of building, including a rather handsome one, along Nairn for pointless parks and transitway.

A station under the Disraeli already sounds unsafe, but a fucking pedestrian tunnel under the tracks? This is especially rich while they're talking about ripping down bus shelters instead of actually dealing with homelessness. The left hand has no goddamn idea what the right hand is doing.
Isn't that what the community wants based on the feedback - parks? I agree , it doesn't seem safe but they will have a security terminal there for what it's worth. As long as it is manned all the time, it shouldn't be an issue.
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  #11526  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyk View Post
Looks like this was just posted yesterday, I haven't dug too deep into the presentation boards but there definitely seems like there would be some interesting information in here.

https://engage.winnipeg.ca/eastern-corridor-study
I finally got around to looking at this... cripes, it's downright depressing. Decades to deliver on the most minor incremental changes. Up to 15 years just to build a diamond lane to Nairn and Watt. WildCake's rant was 100% right. If anything there were probably a lot of punches pulled there.

It is really mind boggling that this is the best that we as a city can do. For a while I thought maybe things were finally moving on the rapid transit front but it looks like we have stalled completely.
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  #11527  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I finally got around to looking at this... cripes, it's downright depressing. Decades to deliver on the most minor incremental changes. Up to 15 years just to build a diamond lane to Nairn and Watt. WildCake's rant was 100% right. If anything there were probably a lot of punches pulled there.

It is really mind boggling that this is the best that we as a city can do. For a while I thought maybe things were finally moving on the rapid transit front but it looks like we have stalled completely.
Yeah it's actually surreal. Like the plans are so satirically unimpressive and yet the timelines presented are *at best* 15 years away lmao.

Remember when Bowman ran in 2014 on a platform to complete 6 RT lines by 2030?

I think it's time for the city to introduce it's own sales tax to raise revenue (shoutout J.K. Galbraith), this whole property tax and speeding ticket funding model clearly isn't doing the trick anymore. 3% city sales tax, put 1% towards homeless shelters/etc., 0.5% to infrastructure and 1.5% to transit and lets get going already. I don't give a **** if it means people on the skirts of town start shopping in west st. paul more often. It will raise city revenues, period. And sorry that sales taxes are proportionally paid more by the poor -- the benefits proportionally serve them moreso too so I mean what can you do.

City hall doesn't have the authority to introduce an income tax but it could implement a sales tax very quickly. Something has to give...
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  #11528  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 11:54 PM
WildCake WildCake is offline
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Originally Posted by (sub)urban View Post
Yeah it's actually surreal. Like the plans are so satirically unimpressive and yet the timelines presented are *at best* 15 years away lmao.

Remember when Bowman ran in 2014 on a platform to complete 6 RT lines by 2030?

I think it's time for the city to introduce it's own sales tax to raise revenue (shoutout J.K. Galbraith), this whole property tax and speeding ticket funding model clearly isn't doing the trick anymore. 3% city sales tax, put 1% towards homeless shelters/etc., 0.5% to infrastructure and 1.5% to transit and lets get going already. I don't give a **** if it means people on the skirts of town start shopping in west st. paul more often. It will raise city revenues, period. And sorry that sales taxes are proportionally paid more by the poor -- the benefits proportionally serve them moreso too so I mean what can you do.

City hall doesn't have the authority to introduce an income tax but it could implement a sales tax very quickly. Something has to give...
While I have next to no faith in any group of politicians willing to sacrifice their career for the greater good of the city, the next few years might actually be the best time to bring up property taxes in the city.

With the PCs phasing out the education tax (can they finally reduce it or is it just going be cheques on the mail forever?), city officials can finally bring out those charts again showing how little property taxes are here when the education portion is removed. I know this won't be popular regardless, but if there's a time to do it, it's before people get too cozy with their new tax dues.

Funnel that into proper infrastructure, transit, and recreation (basically not police and fire please) and things can go from dilapitating to maintenance/growth.
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  #11529  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 2:50 AM
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^Yep, been saying this for a while now.
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  #11530  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 4:06 AM
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Originally Posted by (sub)urban View Post
Yeah it's actually surreal. Like the plans are so satirically unimpressive and yet the timelines presented are *at best* 15 years away lmao.
It's unbelievable. This displays the level of ambition and drive you'd expect maybe from a place like Petersfield.

10 YEAR PLAN:
-Paint the town garage

It's insane that this sad little rose line stub pretty well represents the next 15 (or more realistically, 20) years of rapid transit development of a major city in a G7 country.
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  #11531  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2022, 3:49 PM
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Holy fucking shit what is the City doing? LOL my word.

Do nothing in Point Douglas then BULLDOZE Elmwood along Nairn.

I've been away from SSP for a while. Let me re-group and provide some decent commentary on the eastern corridor thing. Coles notes, it is not good.
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  #11532  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2022, 4:31 PM
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  #11533  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2022, 5:04 PM
zalf zalf is offline
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This should be a write-your-councillor issue for everyone here. The implementation of BRT will have permanent effects on the city, and whether those are for good or for ill depends on the details being decided now.
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  #11534  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2022, 6:14 PM
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There's good elements and some thought put into the proposed design. I like parts of it in isolation. But overall it feels disjointed.

Either go dedicated corridor or don't. Personally IMO if they're going on street for most of the stretch, then there's no need for the dedicated part at Louise Bridge. If they upgrade the bridge and Stadacona to 4 lanes, that alleviates the traffic issues. There really isn't much of an issue there no besides 30 mins at afternoon rush.

I like the station concepts they proposed. Disraeli thing could really be interesting if it doesn't become a homeless encampment.
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  #11535  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2022, 10:26 PM
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Busses are full again. I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re approaching pre-Covid levels of ridership very soon. Gas prices rising will only mean more people taking the bus.

However, that means we’re back to the same old problems of busses being overcrowded which is why more then ever it’s time to start implementing actual rapid transit. I definitely missed being packed like sardines and feeling hella claustrophobic in our busses…

The problem is that the Eastern Corridor is quite frankly a disgrace to put in the same sentence as Rapid Transit. How tf can you call something Rapid Transit and NOT have an actual dedicated lane for said transit? It’s completely asinine and everyone who was involved in designing this route should never work anything transit related for the rest of their lives. All the studies, money, and time wasted for this piece of shit is going to set Transit back years because they are going to have to go back to the drawing board once the residents in the public engagement a week from now collectively shits on it. This is why I fucking despise our cities current leadership this pathetic proposal should have been thrown in the trash as soon as it was shown to any one of the council members or administrative staff.

Yea let’s just say I’m not the biggest fan of this proposal. I might even make a separate post later detailing everything wrong with this trash because it just pisses me off so much.
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  #11536  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2022, 2:03 AM
zalf zalf is offline
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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
Busses are full again. I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re approaching pre-Covid levels of ridership very soon. Gas prices rising will only mean more people taking the bus.
While acknowledging the plural of anectode is not data, I did have to stand on the bus for the first time since early 2020 today.

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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
Yea let’s just say I’m not the biggest fan of this proposal. I might even make a separate post later detailing everything wrong with this trash because it just pisses me off so much.
Please do. You're very articulate about these kinds of issues, and are good at putting to words things I feel instinctively.
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  #11537  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2022, 8:32 PM
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Eastern Corridor Sucks Pt 1

Alright everyone here is everything wrong with the Eastern Corridor Study. This will be the first part of this installment because we're just going to go over the site context first. The next part will be discussing the actual corridor itself and I'll probably post that later today or sometime tomorrow.

Part #1: The Eastern Corridor going through Sutherland.

So the end goal of this transit project is to connect Regent/Transcona with Downtown's Union Station. Immediately we have to determine a few factors for what would be the correct thoroughfare. Factors that would be included are space available for transit, density of residents on the route, and of course finding the the fastest way to get from Union Station to Transcona. The three routes most suitable for this connection are Sutherland, Higgins, and Provencher.

Higgins is one of the options because the existing Route 47 which goes from Transcona to U of M via Downtown already goes through Higgins. Higgins is also a 4-lane road with many old abandoned buildings and has an existing connection to an AT path on Annabelle that can take you all the way to the U of M on a completely separated bike lane. This seems like a logical option because it feeds into the Louise Bridge which needs immediate repair and connects to Nairn very well. The only problem with having the RT on Higgins is well because its Higgins Avenue one of the most notorious streets in Winnipeg. On the flip side this area is more then ready for some infill development and the BRT would do a great job at performing the task to induce said development. From Union Station to KP Mall via Higgins is 8.2 km.

However, my preferred route would be Provencher and it frankly isn't close. Firstly, if you were to do a google search the FASTEST route from Union Station to KP Mall is via Provencher and Archibald. it is only 6.8km compared to 8.2 km for Higgins and 8.6 km for Sutherland. The city lost out on an efficiency of 1.8 km for essentially no fucking reason. That's not even accounting for the fact that if Provencher was the option the RT would most likely avoid the Nairn overpass and shave the length down to around 6.5 km. Apparently they've been studying this corridor for years and felt the need to use the least efficient route possible. This is worse then incompetence in my opinion.

Not only that, but Provencher is 100% the nicest most pleasurable ride that could have occurred. The Road is 4 lanes wide so RT can easily be handled, and there are plans (despite all the nonsense from Public Works) to have an AT path on southbound Provencher that connects to Esplanade Riel. Going from Union Station on Provencher means putting RT infrastructure in the Forks itself and having a station next to Shaw Park and our national museum would seem like a good idea but the city for whatever reason thinks otherwise.

Furthermore, Provencher is the densest route as well because of all the development that has occurred in North St. Boniface especially around Tache. I haven't even mentioned that Provencher itself is quite a charming street full of stores facing the street and is very human scale. St. Boniface is also undergoing a potential boom under Matt Allard with 2 more midrise projects to go up in Provencher. You know what's crazy is that I have discussed all of these benefits of having a lane on Provencher without even mentioning that there's a university with around 5,000 students and hundreds of staff members that is literally 2 blocks away from Provencher.

Here's a conceptual route with the stations of a Provencher Line. If you let the bus go 80 km/h it connects KP to Downtown in under 10 minutes...



So we have a chance to make a bold RT opportunity going through one of our high streets that would be faster, have higher ridership, is a very safe area, would generate more revenue, is a nicer ride, has many more important stops, and will give St. Boniface amazing momentum for further development.

Instead this route goes on Sutherland for no logical reason. Sutherland is only 2 lanes wide, has no plans for AT infrastructure, is the least efficient route, and is in the sketchiest area of the city (no offense to anyone who lives there.) Going through Sutherland was the WORST possible option and of course the study uses the worst option (sigh).

Can anyone please explain to me how this makes any sense to go through Sutherland?

Well it doesn't and the city needs to start over from the very beginning because whoever did those studies clearly has no experience in how cities function and wasted a few million dollars in taxpayer money instead. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot by taking the easy route instead of the best and most direct route. It's time to change that.

Last edited by thebasketballgeek; Jun 23, 2022 at 2:44 AM.
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  #11538  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2022, 8:30 PM
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Your routing there is fine. It's a no brainer.

The downtown end would just continue along past the ballpark and tie into the highline part whenever that get's sorted out.

The Archibald end, especially since the grain place is long gone, has opportunity to actually bypass shit show and connect into Nairn from the south side along Grey. Skip Archibald and just go straight off the end of Provencher. The one overpass of the rail yard is "too expensive" from what I heard 5 years ago. But it could just go over top, along Provencher east of their, then north along the Grey Corridor at Mission. This would also be awesome for cycling as lots of people already use grey.

There's actually a lot of options when also considering the NE violet line connection too. But I digress.

IIRC St. B didn't want any of this, much like everything else. The City falls into NIMBY'ism for everything. There is no real vision or leadership. It's study after study and none of he options really have any great vision.

The alignment along the railway didn't go anywhere because the City can't figure out the railways. Quote: "CN didn't want to play ball". Terrible negotiating tactics.

The City has one corridor built and it's rife with controversy and criticism for the dog leg thing. After that the only thing I've heard come out of the Cities mouth is "too expensive". Do this option I say. "Too expensive."

So then! Consultant comes up with another idea for this small Stage 2 portion of the eastern corridor that will cost half a billion in the end. LOL And it's not great at all..

I truly have no confidence in the transit planners. They need to clean house and hire someone from out of Winnipeg to plan this type of shit. Winnipeg has no expertise in the public and private sectors. I will keep specific names from this forum. But I can start listing off the people who literally don't have much of a clue.
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  #11539  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2022, 10:49 AM
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Isn't the eventual purple line supposed to take Provencher up Archibald and enter the NE transit way?

I don't have a problem with this line going through Point Douglas--it serves more people that way--but they should provide real infrastructure on Sutherland and just build a new bus viaduct from the tip of PD to the Nairn overpass, instead of this Louise Stroad bait and switch.
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  #11540  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2022, 1:04 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Isn't the eventual purple line supposed to take Provencher up Archibald and enter the NE transit way?

I don't have a problem with this line going through Point Douglas--it serves more people that way--but they should provide real infrastructure on Sutherland and just build a new bus viaduct from the tip of PD to the Nairn overpass, instead of this Louise Stroad bait and switch.
YESSS!!! at the very least. I prefer the idea of dedicated corridor but please more then just a bus route with fancy stations.
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