CHICAGO | Obama Presidential Library

[ardecila]

I love this part:

Barrett's denial was not accompanied by any text or explanation.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy

It was thrown out so we should see things start to move along now. I don't think this had anything to do with racism. Same idiotic thinking that drove save a parking lot to loose a good museum on the campus.

You should check out the lead plaintiff's twitter account. Oh boy.

[harryc]

800 trees ? Was just there and this seems a bit of an exaggeration.
( work has started b.t.w. )

[Tombstoner]

Originally Posted by harryc

800 trees ? Was just there and this seems a bit of an exaggeration.
( work has started b.t.w. )

I liked the quote ""Once those trees are cut down, there is no turning back," the group said." Yeah... they rightly understood that it's pretty much the zombie apocalypse after that. I mean, trees would have to be planted and grow for that not to be true...

[pilsenarch]

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy

It was thrown out so we should see things start to move along now. I don't think this had anything to do with racism. Same idiotic thinking that drove save a parking lot to loose a good museum on the campus.

It was all TOTALLY about racism... peeps need to wake up about the recent (only 200 and some odd years) history of this very young country...

[Mikelacey45]

Originally Posted by pilsenarch

It was all TOTALLY about racism... peeps need to wake up about the recent (only 200 and some odd years) history of this very young country...

Ummmmm I’m black and I know this has nothing to do with racism, this is about a bunch of people that loves parking lots and keeping the city in moving forward in the future and improve education. They’re hippies

[2PRUROCKS!]

Originally Posted by pilsenarch

It was all TOTALLY about racism... peeps need to wake up about the recent (only 200 and some odd years) history of this very young country...

It seems rather irresponsible to impugn racist motives on all of those against this project. That would be like accusing you of being a sexist misogynist who is trying to maintain patriarchal domination in architecture because of your repeated irrational posts disparaging Jeanne Gang. For example:

" this is the only truth:

1) NEMA
2) One Chicago
3) One Bennett
4) Legacy

...hmmm, did I leave something off?"

and

"Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lurker View Post
You guys are forgetting Aqua. Carry on...
LOL... I did that intentionally as an editorial statement... "

Now I don't know you other than what you post here, but I don't believe you to be a sexist etc. I believe you have other motivations for your repeated criticisms of Gang, some of which may be warranted, but many of which come across as irrational and petty.

Likewise I believe that those opposed to the Obama Center have varied reasons some more reasonable and valid than others.

I for one was very supportive of Chicago getting the Obama Presidential Library. However, I have become much more conflicted about this project over time. First, I wished it would go in Washington Park instead of Jackson because I believe that location would have used less parkland by instead using vacant lots outside of the public park, thus connecting more to the neighborhood and possibly having a more beneficial impact on the surrounding community. Second, overtime the Obama Center morphed from being a presidential library to being more of a political advocacy center. I'm not really in favor of that change. I fear it has now become a partisan political center instead of a presidential library that tries to fairly and accurately present the history of the Obama presidency and his legacy. This raises serious questions in my mind if public land should be used for a partisan political endeavor. If this was some Trump Make America Great Again Center how would we feel about it? I fear what this has become sets a bad precedent and could be a slippery slope. Like I said I am conflicted because I still do kind of want this development and believe ultimately it will be a net positive for Jackson Park and Chicago.

[Halsted & Villagio]

Black person here… and no, we are not monolithic in how we feel. I disagree with the African American poster above - MikeLacey. When it comes to racism, it strains credulity and the bounds of fairness to think in absolutes. For instance, do I think SOME of the Plaintiffs have/had racist motives? Highly likely — especially when you consider: a) the history of this city, b) the history of America, and c) perhaps most compelling — as Sentinel pointed out — the objective, empirical information found on the Twitter feed of one of the Plaintiffs.

Did ALL of them feel that way? No, I do not believe that. I am not nearly that cynical. Moreover, there is no clear, definitive evidence that the whole thing was driven by racism. On the other hand, based upon the evidence, I am quite comfortable in concluding that there was at least one rotten apple among the Plaintiffs… possibly more.

[harryc]

Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio

Black person here… and no, we are not monolithic in how we feel. I disagree with the African American poster above - MikeLacey. When it comes to racism, it strains credulity and the bounds of fairness to think in absolutes. For instance, do I think SOME of the Plaintiffs have/had racist motives? Highly likely — especially when you consider: a) the history of this city, b) the history of America, and c) perhaps most compelling — as Sentinel pointed out — the objective, empirical information found on the Twitter feed of one of the Plaintiffs.

Did ALL of them feel that way? No, I do not believe that. I am not nearly that cynical. Moreover, there is no clear, definitive evidence that the whole thing was driven by racism. On the other hand, based upon the evidence, I am quite comfortable in concluding that there was at least one rotten apple among the Plaintiffs… possibly more.

I am confused a bit here - is the OP saying that the location picked is racist because it is in the least black part of the black part of Chicago ? or was there a proposal I missed to locate the library in a non-black part of the city ?

At first glance it would seem that the Obama library will be on the closest public land to the Univ of Chicago where he taught. AND complimenting the museum on Science and Industry.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ I think he's saying Obama is racist for going to U of C...

[cityofneighborhoods]

I think that since the legal argument that the city could not have a Presidential Center in a park has no standing, it’s getting a bit weird why the people who don’t live anywhere near Jackson Park feel so entitled to keep trying any means to block something the vast majority of the community wants. I find it particularly odd that the environmental argument of keeping a 6 lane auto sewer through the park is being fought for. Just seems like if they actually cared about park land and environmentalism these folks would be working on adding these net positive green spaces in the city. Something odd seems to be motivating some of these people who are so obsessively opposed

[harryc]

Originally Posted by cityofneighborhoods

I think that since the legal argument that the city could not have a Presidential Center in a park has no standing, it’s getting a bit weird why the people who don’t live anywhere near Jackson Park feel so entitled to keep trying any means to block something the vast majority of the community wants. I find it particularly odd that the environmental argument of keeping a 6 lane auto sewer through the park is being fought for. Just seems like if they actually cared about park land and environmentalism these folks would be working on adding these net positive green spaces in the city. Something odd seems to be motivating some of these people who are so obsessively opposed

See Lucas Museum thread ....

[pilsenarch]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

It seems rather irresponsible to impugn racist motives on all of those against this project. That would be like accusing you of being a sexist misogynist who is trying to maintain patriarchal domination in architecture because of your repeated irrational posts disparaging Jeanne Gang. For example:

" this is the only truth:

1) NEMA
2) One Chicago
3) One Bennett
4) Legacy

...hmmm, did I leave something off?"

and

"Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lurker View Post
You guys are forgetting Aqua. Carry on...
LOL... I did that intentionally as an editorial statement... "

Now I don't know you other than what you post here, but I don't believe you to be a sexist etc. I believe you have other motivations for your repeated criticisms of Gang, some of which may be warranted, but many of which come across as irrational and petty.

Irrational and petty? Where have I ever criticized a Studio Gang project other than Regis? Clearly, the criticism of the St. Regis is objectively valid.

You can have your opinions, but based upon numerous architectural practices in form-making, functionality, structural rationality and expressionism, and quite frankly Studio Gang's own stated project concepts, the building fails.

As far as why a bunch of white suburbanites spend all this time fighting the OPC's goal of expanding green space and utilization of Jackson Park all the way to the Supreme Court... well, I'm sure Halsted and Villagio explained it much better than I could...

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by harryc

See Lucas Museum thread ....

Friends of the Park have been a meme since at least the 1990s. I was reading some old interviews with the Millennium Park designers who accused them of wanting “Parks without People”.

They’re like the people who go ballistic when libraries throw out their old moldy books even if the books will never be read again.

Environmentalism and parks advocating unfortunately attracts a lot of people who are simply misanthropic. As in -wouldn’t be it wonderful if the city really did depopulate so that the land can be used for communal farming for the worthy nature loving sorts-

Real environmentalists don’t care one iota about city greenery because most of it is useless habitat with lawns that require continuous application of poison to look good.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

...
They’re like the people who go ballistic when libraries throw out their old moldy books even if the books will never be read again.
...

My mom is a retired librarian. The politics around public libraries are often simply insane.

Re: the Obama Library, i personally had hoped they would do l select the Washington Park location, but as long as they chose a place in Chicago, I wasn't going to be upset just because they choose a location that wasn't exactly where my first preference might be. At this point I'm just glad they've broken ground and it will likely be completed within my lifetime. My aunt, who is about 80, and who has long ties to the Civil Rights Movement and who taught as a professor at Morehouse Spelman for a number of years is really hoping she lives long enough to see it open. If she does, it could well be her last cross-country trip (she lives in SoCal in retirement) as she's been excited enough about it that she asks me for local news about it any chance she gets. I imagine she's not the only person for whom it carries enormous symbolic meaning.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

However, I have become much more conflicted about this project over time. First, I wished it would go in Washington Park instead of Jackson because I believe that location would have used less parkland by instead using vacant lots outside of the public park, thus connecting more to the neighborhood and possibly having a more beneficial impact on the surrounding community.

I was on the Washington Park train originally, but I just don't think it will have the real estate impact everyone thinks it will. Some folks are blaming Obama for gentrifying Woodlawn, but Woodlawn is gentrifying because it has strong fundamentals - close to the lake, good transit access, close to the university, and each new generation cares less and less about racial stigma. If built in Washington Park, I don't think the Obama Library would have much of a redevelopment impact. It would just be an island in the middle of decay, at least for a few decades until people start getting priced out of Woodlawn.

What the Obama Center can do, from the Jackson Park location, is create a South Side Museum Campus with synergies to MSI and U of C, improve the park from when Mayor Daley turned Cornell into a drag strip, and handle traffic better with access to LSD.

I fear it has now become a partisan political center instead of a presidential library that tries to fairly and accurately present the history of the Obama presidency and his legacy. This raises serious questions in my mind if public land should be used for a partisan political endeavor.

I don't know how you can separate Obama from what he stood for. Even the stodgiest of museums would have to acknowledge and promote Obama's history as a community organizer, and would need to address racial issues head-on since they shaped every second of his presidency. If that's being "partisan" then I have no problem with it. I don't think the Obama Foundation can have any formal ties to the Democratic Party and maintain nonprofit status, but presenting issues from a left-wing perspective (independently of party affiliation) is different.

[Klippenstein]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I was on the Washington Park train originally, but I just don't think it will have the real estate impact everyone thinks it will. Some folks are blaming Obama for gentrifying Woodlawn, but Woodlawn is gentrifying because it has strong fundamentals - close to the lake, good transit access, close to the university, and each new generation cares less and less about racial stigma. If built in Washington Park, I don't think the Obama Library would have much of a redevelopment impact. It would just be an island in the middle of decay, at least for a few decades until people start getting priced out of Woodlawn.

What the Obama Center can do, from the Jackson Park location, is create a South Side Museum Campus with synergies to MSI and U of C, improve the park from when Mayor Daley turned Cornell into a drag strip, and handle traffic better with access to LSD.

The Obama Center could have done something similar with the Dusable Museum if placed in Washington Park and I think a lot of people were hoping for that synergy.

That said, I think there was definitely going to be a bigger impact on housing in Washington Park if it was placed there, since Woodlawn has already been gentrifying for a while now. Though even Washington Park is starting to gentrify. Just look at these newly built townhouses on the park. https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/52...home/176102115
Washington Park is much easier to gentrify, in a sense, because there are so many vacant lots and there is not as much community cohesion or political power as in Woodlawn.

[The Pimp]

Originally Posted by pilsenarch

It was all TOTALLY about racism... peeps need to wake up about the recent (only 200 and some odd years) history of this very young country...

Pilsenarch... Really? You had to go there. Very disappointed in this comment.

[west-town-brad]

racism debates on the internet are my absolute fav

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio

Black person here… and no, we are not monolithic in how we feel. I disagree with the African American poster above - MikeLacey. When it comes to racism, it strains credulity and the bounds of fairness to think in absolutes. For instance, do I think SOME of the Plaintiffs have/had racist motives? Highly likely — especially when you consider: a) the history of this city, b) the history of America, and c) perhaps most compelling — as Sentinel pointed out — the objective, empirical information found on the Twitter feed of one of the Plaintiffs.

Did ALL of them feel that way? No, I do not believe that. I am not nearly that cynical. Moreover, there is no clear, definitive evidence that the whole thing was driven by racism. On the other hand, based upon the evidence, I am quite comfortable in concluding that there was at least one rotten apple among the Plaintiffs… possibly more.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

someone on the internet actually expressing a nuanced view on a contentious issue in 2021.

i thought critical thinking had been outlawed. don't you know that you're supposed to pick a side, turn your brain off, and then just knee-jerk your way through life?

who are you and how recently did you step out of your time machine?