Circles on Central

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Cant someone just accidentally bulldoze this thing, or like hit it with a bus, Im sick of the goddamn Stewart building.

Its not even that cool.

I actually prefer the showroom to stay in the design. But I don't care at this point one way or the other as long as something is built.

I do agree this developer seems to be bullying it's way along the whole process and was holding Circles as a hostage to force a GPLET. If they would have just been straight up front from the get go, they could have demo'd the whole thing and the development would be nearly completed by now. Instead, they seem to be poking and prodding their way along and feeding the city and the RAA with BS. At least Derby was direct with what they were wanting to do and wasn't misleading anyone.

It's just ironic to me as I was just thinking a couple of weeks ago when I took my last update pic that I had a feeling they were going to remove the back façade. It appeared damaged on the McKinley side from the demolition team and I couldn't help but think that was going to be a reason to tear the remainder down

[CrestedSaguaro]

Oh, so anyway I have been completely sidetracked on this. Update on what's going on besides the walls....

As mentioned previously, 2 construction office trailers are setup across McKinley and there are 4 bulldozers on site. They are removing dirt below grade (not sure if there is supposed to be underground parking or not) and the project borders are marked off.

The remaining portion of Circles is completely closed off with plywood. My guess is they will kind of keep it like this and the tower will be a completely separate structure from what's left of Circles. Not sure if there will be an entrance from the tower to the showroom, but at this point I'm betting whatever retail is planned in the showroom will be street entrance only.

So, I guess that's all we have until more activity starts and we hear more from the developers. Either way it's moving

[fawd]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Either way it's moving

This developer has attitude... I love it!

[biggus diggus]

I just walked over there, the walls on McKinley and Central both extend past the footprint of the remaining building. I think with everything else clearly scraped off it means these might be staying and if they do leave them then it's fairly consistent with the renderings shown above.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I just walked over there, the walls on McKinley and Central both extend past the footprint of the remaining building. I think with everything else clearly scraped off it means these might be staying and if they do leave them then it's fairly consistent with the renderings shown above.

I think you are completely missing the point. The walls that were torn down were part of the agreement with the RAA in order for the RAA to relax and sign off on the development in order for Empire to receive a GPLET recommendation from the city. This is not consistent with the renderings and this is not what the developer promised to keep at the meetings with the RAA.

At the city hearing for 3rd and Pierce to get a GPLET a few weeks ago when the Empire developers stepped in and asked when they were going to get a GPLET hearing, the city pretty much gave them the finger. Now these said walls which were part of the agreement to keep in the current design with the RAA are now torn down....in essence Empire giving the city (and the RAA) the finger at this point IMHO.

It's not a big deal to me as I was OK with demo'ing Circles from the get go...but I am very surprised Rampy and company are not in an uproar right now about more of the structure being removed than was agreed upon. I guess they have figured it's a losing argument at this point? I bet Empire for sure does not have a chance in hell for a GPLET now though.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I think you are completely missing the point. The walls that were torn down were part of the agreement with the RAA in order for the RAA to relax and sign off on the development in order for Empire to receive a GPLET recommendation from the city. This is not consistent with the renderings and this is not what the developer promised to keep at the meetings with the RAA.

At the city hearing for 3rd and Pierce to get a GPLET a few weeks ago when the Empire developers stepped in and asked when they were going to get a GPLET hearing, the city pretty much gave them the finger. Now these said walls which were part of the agreement to keep in the current design with the RAA are now torn down....in essence Empire giving the city (and the RAA) the finger at this point IMHO.

It's not a big deal to me as I was OK with demo'ing Circles from the get go...but I am very surprised Rampy and company are not in an uproar right now about more of the structure being removed than was agreed upon. I guess they have figured it's a losing argument at this point? I bet Empire for sure does not have a chance in hell for a GPLET now though.

Well said and correct. In the rendering you posted, you can clearly see the southern facade wall was supposed to reach the alley. Of course, this has been torn down. I agree, no way this project is getting a GPLET now that the agreed upon terms between Empire and RAA are pretty much out the door. What a shitty developer but hopefully this still gets built...

[biggus diggus]

It hardly looks different and the walls could have been damaged requiring replacement.

[RichTempe]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I think you are completely missing the point. The walls that were torn down were part of the agreement with the RAA in order for the RAA to relax and sign off on the development in order for Empire to receive a GPLET recommendation from the city. This is not consistent with the renderings and this is not what the developer promised to keep at the meetings with the RAA.

At the city hearing for 3rd and Pierce to get a GPLET a few weeks ago when the Empire developers stepped in and asked when they were going to get a GPLET hearing, the city pretty much gave them the finger. Now these said walls which were part of the agreement to keep in the current design with the RAA are now torn down....in essence Empire giving the city (and the RAA) the finger at this point IMHO.

It's not a big deal to me as I was OK with demo'ing Circles from the get go...but I am very surprised Rampy and company are not in an uproar right now about more of the structure being removed than was agreed upon. I guess they have figured it's a losing argument at this point? I bet Empire for sure does not have a chance in hell for a GPLET now though.

Well, I think that although the developer originally caused the problem and risked getting their GPLET by jumping the gun and starting the demolition early, they did stop and go back to talk to the neighborhood and did a redesign to try and get the RAA and City on board which caused a delay of several months.

If then, after that, the city still isn't going to give them a GPLET and 'gives them the finger' so to speak, then I don't think the developer is under any obligation, at this point, to honor previous agreements and can do whatever they want with their own land and permits, up to and including knocking the whole thing down.

I too don't really give a damn about the Stewart Building, especially when I lived 2 blocks away from it for years and it sat empty and dilapidated with nobody giving a care in the world. Suddenly, when something good starts to happen, then everyone gets in an uproar over a supposedly significant building. I'm glad that the project is moving forward and hopefully we don't hear too much more about the the lost parts of the original building.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by RichTempe

Well, I think that although the developer originally caused the problem and risked getting their GPLET by jumping the gun and starting the demolition early, they did stop and go back to talk to the neighborhood and did a redesign to try and get the RAA and City on board which caused a delay of several months.

If then, after that, the city still isn't going to give them a GPLET and 'gives them the finger' so to speak, then I don't think the developer is under any obligation, at this point, to honor previous agreements and can do whatever they want with their own land and permits, up to and including knocking the whole thing down.

I too don't really give a damn about the Stewart Building, especially when I lived 2 blocks away from it for years and it sat empty and dilapidated with nobody giving a care in the world. Suddenly, when something good starts to happen, then everyone gets in an uproar over a supposedly significant building. I'm glad that the project is moving forward and hopefully we don't hear too much more about the the lost parts of the original building.

I'm OK with losing the walls or the building. I'm wondering if this will have an impact on future developments though? Last thing we need is the RAA coming down on every development citing the Stewart as an example to fight developers.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Checked on the Stewart today. I am going to call it with 100% certainty that this is a go. A large amount of column support rebar is onsite and some support rebar is in the ground. The rebar that is laying on the ground looks to be well over 20' in length and about 4 feet in diameter, so definitely for support columns. A drill is onsite for the column supports and a couple of bulldozers.

I'm not sure what made them start without the GPLET. Maybe they decided since the Phoenix market is hot, they could pencil it out without a GPLET? Either way, this should be going vertical over the next couple of days. This gives me hope Derby still has a chance.

I snapped a pic, but couldn't get It to upload. I'll try again later tonight.

[Sepstein]

This is great news! Love to see a building over 6 stories getting built! Especially in that area. We need more buildings of this size north of The Westward Ho too fill that gap between mid town!!

[fawd]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Steward could pencil it out without a GPLET? Either way, this should be going vertical over the next couple of days. This gives me hope Derby still has a chance

Lets go big picture. Steward IS proceeding without the GPLET. This, again, is incredible confidence in the DT Phoenix market.

Feels like i keep saying it... Hold on for Derby + more guys...

[gymratmanaz]

Rockin my world FAWD!!!!!!!

[biggus diggus]

That wall along Central is definitely not being demolished.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Update:

Got a chance to ask UEB some questions today.

Development is officially a go without the GPLET...which I think we all kinda figured out by now. Height will officially be 210' which puts it at a hair taller than Westward Ho. Can't remember if this was known before, but there will be 13 floors on top of 7 floors of garage with no underground parking. Also, there will be 0 lot line along the the alley and North side.

As I had suggested, there is indeed a tweak to the design from the brick facade being removed from the alley/McKinley corner and along Central. Updated changes will be shown on UEB's website in the next few weeks along with a construction cam to be mounted on the Westward Ho. They are bricking up the remaining openings of Circles.

I hope this gets everyone's juices flowing

[fawd]

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by RichTempe

Well, I think that although the developer originally caused the problem and risked getting their GPLET by jumping the gun and starting the demolition early, they did stop and go back to talk to the neighborhood and did a redesign to try and get the RAA and City on board which caused a delay of several months.

If then, after that, the city still isn't going to give them a GPLET and 'gives them the finger' so to speak, then I don't think the developer is under any obligation, at this point, to honor previous agreements and can do whatever they want with their own land and permits, up to and including knocking the whole thing down.

I too don't really give a damn about the Stewart Building, especially when I lived 2 blocks away from it for years and it sat empty and dilapidated with nobody giving a care in the world. Suddenly, when something good starts to happen, then everyone gets in an uproar over a supposedly significant building. I'm glad that the project is moving forward and hopefully we don't hear too much more about the the lost parts of the original building.

Sorry, but the fact that everyday residents without the capital to purchase the building at what was described many times over as a ridiculously inflated price were unable to adapt this building into something useful does not mean nobody "gave a care in the world." Since Circles closed, there were frequent updates on possible purchases, along with promises of keeping the building in place. What exactly were residents who cared supposed to do in the meantime?

I assume they were waiting for a developer with the financial means to purchase the site and for the parties involved to work out a plan that incorporated adaptive reuse as the former owners had 'promised' the neighborhood. This would essentially mean potential affordable retail space among the other benefits.

Everyone is so anxious for generic, sub-20 story "towers" to go up, but when you think of downtown's revival, you aren't going to remember Lennar... but, de Soto and the future Van Buren --- both former auto dealers --- were absolutely signs of the change. We should expect developers to care about the city they are profitting from and if they presented a model where a good deal of the building was preserved, it was clearly financially doable. It sounds like this still may end up close to that vision, and I think that's a win overall: these older structures are sitting on prime land, and seeing them thoughtfully designed into contemporary towers is the best of all sides. But, I can't get on board with preferring total demolition over a bit of debate.

[schoolboy-slim]

http://ueb.net.s3-website-us-west-1..../webcam24.html

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by schoolboy-slim

http://ueb.net.s3-website-us-west-1..../webcam24.html

Dang. I just checked this morning and it wasn't there. Thanks for sharing!

[biggus diggus]

This is what the streets of the downtown of the fifth largest city in USA looks like on a weekday afternoon.