AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[M1EK]

The vision map posted predated the central corridor study. More recent vision maps existed at the time the flier was created. They do not, however, show urban rail on Guadalupe near Hyde Park, which is why they were not used for this flier.

As for BRT on the Lamar corridor: http://austinrailnow.wordpress.com/2...for-bus-lanes/

Again, draw your own conclusions why a person might uncritically defend an organization pulling this kind of misinformation.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by M1EK

The vision map posted predated the central corridor study.

Correct, it is _slightly_ out of date in regards to the last couple of miles of the initial rail corridor.

Originally Posted by M1EK

More recent vision maps existed at the time the flier was created.

No, they don't. I actually wish they would do an update, to correct the small change referenced above.

Originally Posted by M1EK

As for BRT on the Lamar corridor: http://austinrailnow.wordpress.com/2...for-bus-lanes/

So you're the one complaining about an out of date map (from June 2013) and your information is _even_ more out of date (May 2012), and pre-dates _all_ versions of the "vision" map.


Why would you think any additional BRT infrastructure _has_ to be on guadalupe? It couldn't possibly be for the BRT extensions up to Georgetown and Pflugerville http://projectconnect.com/north-corridor

[JT5]

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news....257263.735394

Posted: 8:04 p.m. Tuesday, June 10, 2014

By Ben Wear - American-Statesman Staff


The Austin City Council, looking to broaden the appeal of what could be a $700 million urban rail bond election in November, is considering tacking on road improvements from among $480 million in possible projects.

6/10 City Council Work Session - Item D- Strategic Mobility Plan Briefing: http://austintx.swagit.com/play/06102014-549

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Correct, it is _slightly_ out of date in regards to the last couple of miles of the initial rail corridor.

No, it's out of date in that nobody at PC is actually considering rail on Guadalupe now. The vision map they show at meetings has a vague arrow heading towards North Lamar from the Highland Mall area.

You're doing this thing again where you expect a guy posting a comment from his job in the middle of a meeting to be able to provide standards of proof which would hold up in a court of law.

I'm telling you what I've seen in meetings and presentations that I have been to in the Project Connect process and what people who have been at other meetings and other presentations have reported, including reports from a member of the CCAG itself. Lyndon Henry says the BRT projects identify North Lamar. Not Pflugerville or Round Rock. North Lamar. To take one example.

You should expect the level of detail out of Capital Metro and Project Connect to be outstanding. They pay very many people a lot of money to do this stuff. But instead, you seem to expect the hobbysists to provide that level of detail and don't care when Capital Metro and Project Connect don't.

Again, I urge readers to draw their own conclusions from that.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by M1EK

No, it's out of date in that nobody at PC is actually considering rail on Guadalupe now. The vision map they show at meetings has a vague arrow heading towards North Lamar from the Highland Mall area.

From your own link, the revised vision map will still indicate the desire for rail on guadalupe and Lamar.

"The revised map, which still includes the potential future lines (including Guadalupe-Lamar),"
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news...3581740.735395

[brando]

AMA with Project Connect:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...oject_connect/

Graphic of proposed Rail:
http://projectconnect.com/sites/defa...ated%20Map.mp4

Key Stops:
-East Riverside Corrior
-New Lakeshore Developments (Amli, South Shore District, Pearl, high-rise next to 35)
-Travis Heights
-Complex that replaces Statesman (possibly arena)
-Downtown entertainment district
-Hotels
-Convention Center/Red Line
-Medical School
-UT
-Airport Blvd/Highland ACC Campus

[jngreenlee]

Not sure if it's caught everyone's attention, but there's a bit of a property tax battle with TCAD and the County Commissioners starting up, due to many homeowners receiving a recent notice of 2014 property taxes going up in the neighborhood of 20% compared to 2013.

TCAD's been clever in biding their time and waiting for market valuations to go pretty high from previous baselines before putting in the recent valuation increases. It will be hard to argue down.

With this in mind, the attitude towards future bond measures, even for transportation, may be more negative than it has been in the past.

Other thoughts?

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by jngreenlee

TCAD's been clever in biding their time and waiting for market valuations to go pretty high from previous baselines before putting in the recent valuation increases.

umm, isn't that how it's _supposed_ to work? If the true value of the house goes up, the appraised values go up?

Originally Posted by jngreenlee

With this in mind, the attitude towards future bond measures, even for transportation, may be more negative than it has been in the past.

It should be immaterial. The amount of the bond is constant, and then the rate varies (inversely with the valuation). If everyone's value went up 20% (roughly) then the rate for the bond is 20% lower.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Novacek

From your own link, the revised vision map will still indicate the desire for rail on guadalupe and Lamar.

"The revised map, which still includes the potential future lines (including Guadalupe-Lamar),"
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news...3581740.735395

The revised map is still not accurate with what's being presented to decision-makers.

This is an example of what decision-makers are actually seeing (sorry for low image quality; this was obviously captured off Channel 6). This one shows vaguely serving the "Lamar subcorridor" over top of 38th street. Other images shown to decision-makers show "Lamar" being served over top of Highland (even further up than this image).



Again, I have been in some of these meetings. Others have been in more. You are picking nits when the message is clear: Project Connect's plans have changed since 2012 (when there were originally two urban rail lines proposed - one going up to about 21st/San Antonio and the other going to Mueller).

Source for this tweet: https://twitter.com/steboknapp/statu...01191757553666 - from the meeting specifically talking about the 'future studies'.

Draw your own conclusions.

[M1EK]

An even better illustration here:



Source: https://twitter.com/cdcatx/status/47...757376/photo/1

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by M1EK

An even better illustration here:



Source: https://twitter.com/cdcatx/status/47...757376/photo/1

1. It should be very obvious that those arrows are not an attempt to capture a route to any degree of fidelity. They show a general desire to serve the area west of UT, that's it.

2. Even that map completely contradicts what you claimed before, "The vision map they show at meetings has a vague arrow heading towards North Lamar from the Highland Mall area."
"Their more up-to-date long-range plans show a general arrow pointing to the Lamar 'subcorridor' from the top of the Highland proposal. Implying the line would go up Airport and then up Lamar from there."

3. It also contradicts your other claim:
"They do not, however, show urban rail on Guadalupe near Hyde Park, which is why they were not used for this flier."
Even that vague arrow is going _directly_ through Hyde Park.

4. Exactly as predicted, the revised map _still_ shows rail on Guadalupe as a desire.

5. Neither of those is actually a system vision map (which I still wish they would update with the most recent changes). None of them shows the whole interacting system, including the red line and lone star rail and BRT extensions to Georgetown and Pflugerville and rail to Manor and Elgin.

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by Novacek

5. Neither of those is actually a system vision map (which I still wish they would update with the most recent changes). None of them shows the whole interacting system, including the red line and lone star rail and BRT extensions to Georgetown and Pflugerville and rail to Manor and Elgin.

Now you understand my frustration. There is no urban rail system plan. Or if there is it's in a constant state of flux. It's gonna b really tough to get behind a rail line without seeing the bigger system in reasonable fidelity with estimated build out timelines for subsequent lines. I desperately want rail but all my intuition tells me this plan fails drastically at the ballot.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Novacek

1. It should be very obvious that those arrows are not an attempt to capture a route to any degree of fidelity. They show a general desire to serve the area west of UT, that's it.

No, they do not. That's a lie. The arrow heads west around approximately 30th St and then peels off further west along roughly 35th St and north along roughly Lamar.

Draw your own conclusions, folks.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by ATXboom

Now you understand my frustration. There is no urban rail system plan. Or if there is it's in a constant state of flux. It's gonna b really tough to get behind a rail line without seeing the bigger system in reasonable fidelity with estimated build out timelines for subsequent lines. I desperately want rail but all my intuition tells me this plan fails drastically at the ballot.

Additionally, those dotted lines on the maps aren't labeled future rail lines, they're labeled future high capacity lines - which could just as easy be rapid bus.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by M1EK

No, they do not. That's a lie. The arrow heads west around approximately 30th St and then peels off further west along roughly 35th St and north along roughly Lamar.

Draw your own conclusions, folks.

30th and 35th? And then what, straight through the triangle and then through the middle of Brentwood? The arrows basically just show cardinal directions. They are not a route.

Which is why you should be looking at the more recent map, which again, shows rail on the drag.

Edit: put another way:
That arrowhead (which you say is "roughly Lamar") is _further_ from Lamar than the tail of the arrow is from MLK.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by electricron

Additionally, those dotted lines on the maps aren't labeled future rail lines, they're labeled future high capacity lines - which could just as easy be rapid bus.

Since (for instance) hyde park to sunshine _already_ has rapid bus, rapid bus wouldn't be a "future system line".

[ATXboom]

uhhhggg... this thing is doomed to fail in November. Very disappointing. I wish stakeholders could commit to a well articulated urban rail system. It's just not concrete enough to make a decision to move forward.

Listen in to the support for the line live right now: http://austintexas.gov/department/atxn

seems funny... all these internal stakeholders are all gung ho but there is no voice of the broader voting population involved. This is where 10-1 may help by shaping this with the support of the entire voting populace.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Novacek

30th and 35th? And then what, straight through the triangle and then through the middle of Brentwood? The arrows basically just show cardinal directions. They are not a route.

Which is why you should be looking at the more recent map, which again, shows rail on the drag.

Edit: put another way:
That arrowhead (which you say is "roughly Lamar") is _further_ from Lamar than the tail of the arrow is from MLK.

I don't know how much more clear I can make this without running afoul of the board.

You are not telling the truth here. You are trying to mislead people. The Guadalupe lines on the revised map are still not the current plan. Just a moment ago at the CCAG they made this point - they have to redo the entire vision map immediately after this meeting is done. All they did to try to get out of the heat for misleading people last weekend was to change the starter line and shrink all the other lines - but those are all moot. NONE OF THEM ARE PLANNED.

And if you just heard Langmore's speech at the CCAG, it hammers it home. They have no intention of going to the Drag. No way, no how.

[ATXboom]

In order for this first line to pass in November there are 3 key things that are needed that have not been provided:

1. Detailed vision of the full urban rail system build out. People need to know where trains will run. They know this first line will have zero impact, thus selling them on the impact of the full build out is critical.

2. Timeline for full urban rail system build out. People realize we have a major mobility issue. They aren't going to wait a decade between each line or extension. An approximate timeline for build out of subsequent lines or extensions will need to be provided.

3. Roadway creating and capacity expansion will need to be included in each bond election to address the majority of the voting population dependency on suburban lifestyle.

So far none of these have been provided and thus it will fail in the current state of information.

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by ATXboom

In order for this first line to pass in November there are 3 key things that are needed that have not been provided:

1. Detailed vision of the full urban rail system build out. People need to know where trains will run. They know this first line will have zero impact, thus selling them on the impact of the full build out is critical.

2. Timeline for full urban rail system build out. People realize we have a major mobility issue. They aren't going to wait a decade between each line or extension. An approximate timeline for build out of subsequent lines or extensions will need to be provided.

3. Roadway creating and capacity expansion will need to be included in each bond election to address the majority of the voting population dependency on suburban lifestyle.

So far none of these have been provided and thus it will fail in the current state of information.

Agreed.

Also, I'd love to see the Reconnect Austin vision actually executed along I-35: http://reconnectaustin.com/ Hell, I'd probably even vote for this absurd rail line alignment if the full RA plan is implemented.