Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[north 42]

I've only ever heard it called Reet-mans here in Windsor.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I've only ever used or heard REET-mans in the Ottawa area.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

"RATE-mans" sounds to me like a cop-out by people who can't decide which of the other two to use!

Here it's just a continuation of one of the accents.

The people who say RATE-mans are the same ones who pronounce my name (Ryan) as RHINE.

[kool maudit]

i had no idea this was even possible to question. "reitman" is a german/jewish name ("reit" comes from a yiddish pronunciation of "rot," or red. it's related to the surname "roth") so i had always assumed the "rei" sound would be a long i as in "reichstag". i guess i missed the ads.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

i had no idea this was even possible to question. "reitman" is a german/jewish name ("reit" comes from a yiddish pronunciation of "rot," or red. it's related to the surname "roth") so i had always assumed the "rei" sound would be a long i as in "reichstag". i guess i missed the ads.

Same here. Just like I can't conceive at first sight of more than one way to pronounce Hochelaga unless I really think about it, Reitman is in the same boat. Maybe from having done a few years of German as a teen, back when my English wasn't that great.

I consider myself fluent in English nowadays, but there are a few things that I've noticed you don't acquire (unless you make a special effort, I suppose) with second or third languages, like the ability to quickly spot out-of-the-box ways to mispronounce words from your native language when trying to look at them through a native-speaker-of-that-second-language-to-you lens.

[SignalHillHiker]

I often pronounce things incorrectly. Handicap of my heritage, I suppose.

In Winnipeg, I pronounced Agassiz and Pinawa wrong - also, Lagimodiere (I said it in French). They do it entirely in English or just the first syllable in French.

Here, you could get lots wrong if you just go by what it's supposed to be. You really need to be exposed to a word at least once to say it correctly.

Baie D'Espoir is actually pronounced Bay Despair. St. Anthony is Snant-Nee. St. John's is Sin-Jaaawnz. Francois is France-Way. Channel-Port-aux-Basques is Porto-Bass. On and on.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I often pronounce things incorrectly. Handicap of my heritage, I suppose.

In Winnipeg, I pronounced Agassiz and Pinawa wrong - also, Lagimodiere (I said it in French). They do it entirely in English or just the first syllable in French.

Here, you could get lots wrong if you just go by what it's supposed to be. You really need to be exposed to a word at least once to say it correctly.

Baie D'Espoir is actually pronounced Bay Despair. St. Anthony is Snant-Nee. St. John's is Sin-Jaaawnz. Francois is France-Way. Channel-Port-aux-Basques is Porto-Bass. On and on.

FWIW, I would have a hard time bringing myself to stand by while I am witnessing people mispronounce stuff like Baie D'Espoir, Port-aux-Basques, or François. Let alone mispronounce them myself... On the other hand, I'd have to hear it, but the way you've written your interpretation, they all sound pretty decent, not butchered. François as you've written it is the Old French pronounciation, interestingly. (Could still be found alive in some areas on this continent.)

I better stick to St. John's if I go to the rock.

[SignalHillHiker]

I think Baie D'Espoir's pronunciation might have started as a joke because the people there are very conscious of the fact it's pronounced in a way that implies the opposite of what the name actually means.

[SignalHillHiker]

Colleen Power's album, which has the song "Terre Neuve est mon pays", a sample song:

• Video Link

How's her French? She's quite bad speaking it. Curious about singing.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Colleen Power's album, which has the song "Terre Neuve est mon pays", a sample song:

• Video Link

How's her French? She's quite bad speaking it. Curious about singing.

Singing is dreadful. I'll let others comment on the quality of her French.

[SignalHillHiker]

Awful.

Skip to 7:37. That's a small village named Port Kirwan, the end of the road for us on our 18-km hike. We stopped the first people we saw and asked if they could drive us to where we parked in Aquaforte, about 15 mins away. They, of course, said yes. I filmed a bit of our conversation.

So you have Joanne from Baie D'Espoir, and two people from Port Kirwan chatting. One other guy from Ferryland pipes up a moment too.

Four different accents.

• Video Link

[kwoldtimer]

So, the word of the day today on C'est la vie was "facile" and I noticed that Bernard St-Laurent pronounced it "Fah-sill", while Johanne Blais pronounced it "Fah-seal" (as would I). Which is preferred? Does it vary by region?

[SignalHillHiker]

I like the first better. I find the latter accent usually sounds to me like the speaker is addressing a small child. Or was raised with deaf relatives.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I like the first better. I find the latter accent usually sounds to me like the speaker is addressing a small child. Or was raised with deaf relatives.

In French (that was my question)? In English, I would say FA-syle (rhymes with "style")

[SignalHillHiker]

Yeah, in French. I'm not sure which accent it is... I suspect it's probably just what people end up with after going through French immersion... but it doesn't have a normal tone or pace. It's all up at the ends of sentences, it's all enunciated too clearly. It doesn't sound like a normal person talking.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

So, the word of the day today on C'est la vie was "facile" and I noticed that Bernard St-Laurent pronounced it "Fah-sill", while Johanne Blais pronounced it "Fah-seal" (as would I). Which is preferred? Does it vary by region?

While there is lots of overlap between the two ways of saying it, it mostly comes down a difference between Canadian French and European French.

We tend to say "fah-sill" and they tend to say "fah-seal".

Bernard St-Laurent's French being less professional and polished, it's not surprising he says "fah-sill".

People from Quebec like Johanne Blais who are language professionals, without necessarily taking on a full Parisian accent, will often use more European-sounding pronunciations for certain words.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

While there is lots of overlap between the two ways of saying it, it mostly comes down a difference between Canadian French and European French.

We tend to say "fah-sill" and they tend to say "fah-seal".

Bernard St-Laurent's French being less professional and polished, it's not surprising he says "fah-sill".

People from Quebec like Johanne Blais who are language professionals, without necessarily taking on a full Parisian accent, will often use more European-sounding pronunciations for certain words.

Good to know. Makes me happy with my pronunciation!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Colleen Power's album, which has the song "Terre Neuve est mon pays", a sample song:

• Video Link

How's her French? She's quite bad speaking it. Curious about singing.

It's heavily accented but fairly easy to understand.

With some places in Canada where francophones are a hyper-minority, I find it's often difficult to tell just with the accent if your interlocutor is a native local francophone or an anglophone who speaks decent French. Many native francophones in these areas have such a significant and noticeable anglo tinge in their accent that they often sound like anglo kids fresh out of French immersion.

If someone like her told me she was a Franco-Terre-Neuvienne born and raised, I'd probably be inclined to believe her.

[SignalHillHiker]

There probably aren't any left for whom Newfoundland French is a mother language, but it is being revived. They may try to revive Newfoundland Irish as well - that lasted well into the 1900s as the mother tongue for families in certain pockets of the Avalon Peninsula.

Now, there are just traces of it in our English dialect:

Irish left traces in Newfoundland English, such as the following: scrob "scratch" (Irish scríob), sleveen "rascal" (Irish slíbhín) and streel "slovenly person" (Irish sraoill), along with grammatical features like the "after" prefect as in "she's already after leavin'” (Irish tá sí tar éis imeacht).

Here's someone who was actually Franco-TN:

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

There probably aren't any left for whom Newfoundland French is a mother language, but it is being revived. They may try to revive Newfoundland Irish as well - that lasted well into the 1900s as the mother tongue for families in certain pockets of the Avalon Peninsula.

Now, there are just traces of it in our English dialect:



Here's someone who was actually Franco-TN:

• Video Link

Yeah, his accent sounds more like a native francophone, a bit similar to that of very old Acadians and even some rural Québécois.

But this kind of accent no longer exists today. It's from a bygone era.

Any young Franco-TN people living even on the Port au Port peninsula are likely the second or third generation after the accent switch where they mostly sound like anglos speaking French with perhaps only a tiny bit of residual Franco-TN speech mannerisms.

Most of the young francophones in western Canada are like this as well, and speak with significantly different accents than their forebears a generation or so ago did.

SW Ontario francophones around Windsor are the same, and francophones in northeastern Ontario are transitioning towards this though it is not yet complete.

Except for young "metropolitan Acadians" in Halifax (who tend to speak with anglo accents), the traditional Nova Scotia Acadian accent is holding up quite well with Acadian young people in SW NS and also eastern Cape Breton.