Winnipeg Retail

[CoryB]

Was reading more about the DSW Canadian rollout. They are looking for spaces around 20,000 sq ft or slightly larger. The vacant River City at Seasons is 17,000 sq ft so the space does match and it is in a part of town they are likely to locate. The question becomes if the lack of traffic in Seasons is enough of a deterrent to keep them away.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The question becomes if the lack of traffic in Seasons is enough of a deterrent to keep them away.

Good question. The couple of multi-CRU buildings on the Seasons site are basically orphans with no real critical mass. There appears to be so little spillover traffic from IKEA that they might as well be way out on Wilkes... I can understand why, too. After a trip to IKEA I generally don't have any appetite for more shopping.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Good question. The couple of multi-CRU buildings on the Seasons site are basically orphans with no real critical mass. There appears to be so little spillover traffic from IKEA that they might as well be way out on Wilkes... I can understand why, too. After a trip to IKEA I generally don't have any appetite for more shopping.

Looking at the Seasons site plans, the CRU that housed River City was supposed to be double the size with the currently built section being the east side and the west being undeveloped currently. If that was built and had quality tenants then it might start getting closer to the critical mass that is needed. If Lowe's had opened as originally planned that would also help.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by BubberMiley

That spot would be a nice spot for a dog park to replace the one Sam gave away in the Parker Lands.

It was only a dog park because nothing else was there. I should be mad it wasn't the freeway that was supposed to go through there, as it would shorten my drive everyday.

But the dog park will be reshaped and improved as part of the Transitway project.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Looking at the Seasons site plans, the CRU that housed River City was supposed to be double the size with the currently built section being the east side and the west being undeveloped currently. If that was built and had quality tenants then it might start getting closer to the critical mass that is needed. If Lowe's had opened as originally planned that would also help.

And on will come the discounts and rental incentives and we won't see anything else constructed until Kenaston Commons is completely built out.

[biguc]

Given that Seasons is a failure, why aren't people made about the money the city wasted expanding the roads around there, when they aren't spurring any tax-paying development?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by biguc

Given that Seasons is a failure, why aren't people made about the money the city wasted expanding the roads around there, when they aren't spurring any tax-paying development?

People are mad, but Fairweather also paid for a lot of that. And with Ridgewood South coming, it was only a matter of time before it was all widened.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

People are mad, but Fairweather also paid for a lot of that. And with Ridgewood South coming, it was only a matter of time before it was all widened.

Indeed. Fairweather spent upwards of $25 M in road improvements on that stretch - many of them that would be needed soon anyway (ok, not the third left turn lane onto Sterling).

And Biguc, not too sure it can be called a failure yet. Sure, it might be growing more slowly than expected, and certain retailers that were rumoured for the area haven't materialized. But, the plan was always build-out over 6 or 7 years - its the end of year 2...

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by biguc

Given that Seasons is a failure, why aren't people made about the money the city wasted expanding the roads around there, when they aren't spurring any tax-paying development?

I'm not going to argue as I know you are always right. But I will tell you Seasons is not a failure. I personally don't shop there (I barely shop, period) but I do know a franchisee of a restaurant there and it's continuing to grow. He has seen the list of businesses coming in over time and it's extensive.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

I'm not going to argue as I know you are always right.

[esquire]

When it was announced, I think they gave an opening date sometime in 2013. Here we are over a year later and all there is other than IKEA are a couple of small multi-CRU buildings, a gas station and a Cabela's. Not exactly the star retail attraction that it was heralded as.

I guess eventually it will get built out, but I think Seasons of Tuxedo is demonstrating that the local market is pretty flat when it comes to demand for more retail space. Although that isn't surprising considering how much of it was built over the last 15 years since the boom in big box stores.

[BubberMiley]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

But the dog park will be reshaped and improved as part of the Transitway project.

No, the plan is for it to disappear, along with the one in North River Heights and the one in Charleswood. The closest one will soon be in St. James unless another one is found.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by BubberMiley

No, the plan is for it to disappear, along with the one in North River Heights and the one in Charleswood. The closest one will soon be in St. James unless another one is found.

Which there won't be. And nor should one be. This is like the golf course argument: why should the city, broke and foundering as it is, be setting aside large tracts of serviced, greenfield land for things like playing fetch and golf? They shouldn't be. Unless, of course, the area wants to pay the value of the foregone revenue streams, which they never do.

The dog-park lobby is extremely annoying. This idea that dogs are being unduly and unfairly affected by the need to house humans is ridiculous. If the dog park is so important, perhaps a couple acres in the exurbs is more along the lines of what needs. City living is a matter of tradeoffs.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

I'm not going to argue as I know you are always right. But I will tell you Seasons is not a failure. I personally don't shop there (I barely shop, period) but I do know a franchisee of a restaurant there and it's continuing to grow. He has seen the list of businesses coming in over time and it's extensive.

I wouldn't pay any attention to this. These decisions can be reversed in an instant and they will be if the area continues to lag.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

The dog-park lobby is extremely annoying. This idea that dogs are being unduly and unfairly affected by the need to house humans is ridiculous. If the dog park is so important, perhaps a couple acres in the exurbs is more along the lines of what needs. City living is a matter of tradeoffs.

Agreed. Why can't dog owners band together and buy a parcel of land on the edge of town and keep the site as a dog park until the end of time?

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

I guess eventually it will get built out, but I think Seasons of Tuxedo is demonstrating that the local market is pretty flat when it comes to demand for more retail space. Although that isn't surprising considering how much of it was built over the last 15 years since the boom in big box stores.

I think 2015 will be a very telling year in terms of how Winnipeg's retail market is truly doing. Lowe's has put their Canadian plans in over drive again and we know Winnipeg was on their radar before. DSW and Famous Footwear are also both aggressively entering the Canadian market. Marshalls is rapidly building out their store network. We are also ripe for a northwest Target and Costco that keep getting discussed.

Separate from general market conditions, the Polo Park area will separately be interesting. The Plaza lists a grocery store as a tenant on the northeast corner next to Target. Could this be the announced then withdrawn T&T that was originally targeting Polo North? Will they land a Lowe's location? Will Sears last another 12 months in the mall? What about those five vacant locations in the high profile Zeller's conversion?

The continued fallout from the Sobey's and Safeway merger will also continued to be felt in 2015. For example, in the highly desired Kenaston area Sobey's and Safeway still operate stores across the street from each other. Will they both still be there come the close of 2015? Will Co-Op continue to scoop up closed Safeway stores, or do the stores they already have start running into longer term challenges? Might we see Whole Foods coming to Winnipeg or perhaps the Loblaw's owned T&T open here?

Definitely lots of questions heading into 2015.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

I'm not going to argue as I know you are always right. But I will tell you Seasons is not a failure. I personally don't shop there (I barely shop, period) but I do know a franchisee of a restaurant there and it's continuing to grow. He has seen the list of businesses coming in over time and it's extensive.

We just had two pages of discussion on how it's not working out because the market is saturated and retail is changing. Why not chime in then?

[BubberMiley]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Which there won't be. And nor should one be.

Maybe we should sell off Assiniboine Park to make more shitbox condos too, like Sam tried to do.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by BubberMiley

Maybe we should sell off Assiniboine Park to make more shitbox condos too, like Sam tried to do.

I recall those condo's being in the current parking lot (before it was decided that was the new entrance)? Not selling off the park in anyway.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by BubberMiley

No, the plan is for it to disappear, along with the one in North River Heights and the one in Charleswood. The closest one will soon be in St. James unless another one is found.

It's a conspiracy. The dog park at Parker will still be there. Just in a different location/shape.