AUSTIN | Fairmont Hotel | 595 FEET SPIRE/456 FT ROOF | 37 FLRS | Complete

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by Syndic

I swear to god I heard a few years ago that the APD headquarters was going to be moving to this location. Whatever happened with that? They need to move already, and tear that old piece of crap down.

Actually, about 5 or 6 years ago, the city was talking about selling the APD Headquarter building and municipal courthouse to a private developer and I believe they were planning on relocating at the intersection of St. John's and I 35, at the Home Depot site. I guess its possible they also considered the location you posted.
It will move eventially. APD built the headquarters in the early eighties, '81 or '82, when Austin's population was around 365K. Even with substations throughout the city limits, the police department has outgrown its HQ and will need bigger digs sooner than later. It all comes down to funds and how much the property the HQ is sitting on is worth.
If I'm not mistaken, some of the funds that were on the table for the HQ relocation were diverted to the Waller Creek tunnel project. Couple that with the economic downturn at the time, it essentially back-burnered any relocation plans.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by the Genral

Actually, about 5 or 6 years ago, the city was talking about selling the APD Headquarter building and municipal courthouse to a private developer and I believe they were planning on relocating at the intersection of St. John's and I 35, at the Home Depot site. I guess its possible they also considered the location you posted.
It will move eventially. APD built the headquarters in the early eighties, '81 or '82, when Austin's population was around 365K. Even with substations throughout the city limits, the police department has outgrown its HQ and will need bigger digs sooner than later. It all comes down to funds and how much the property the HQ is sitting on is worth.
If I'm not mistaken, some of the funds that were on the table for the HQ relocation were diverted to the Waller Creek tunnel project.

I think the proposal was for the municipal courts to move to the St. John's location. I don't recall the police dept. being part of that plan. I guess the municipal court move got scratched or delayed? Is that Home Depot still in business??

[KevinFromTexas]

Well I guess that settles the spire question. It'll definitely have one. I think the helicopter ferry craze is over since it was shown that the traffic at COTA wasn't really all that bad. Remember, they had considered placing a helipad on the roof of the hotel.

[The ATX]

I just drove by the site, and man those are some huge signs on both corners of the lot that facing Cesar Chavez. It's like "we don't have all the financing yet, but we got these big ass signs."

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Hill Country

I just drove by the site, and man those are some huge signs on both corners of the lot that facing Cesar Chavez. It's like "we don't have all the financing yet, but we got these big ass signs."

With signs that big (and with the Manchester family name splashed all over them), they had better have the financing, or they will be laughed out of town. Even Tom Stacey never stuck his neck out this far. The Manchester family is nothing if not a PROUD family, so I suspect they have a plan. I think the negative press regarding this project out in San Diego prompted them to put up the signs. More will be revealed.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by brando

....why?

It was being used for other purposes until a couple weeks ago. They put those signs up whenever they block off the lot for construction. I can't imagine the firm saying, "Guys, we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on this hotel but we can't afford to print these small billboards until we are about to break ground."

Again, if they wanted to they could have simply put them up in the beginning. Those signs would have not altered the use of the lot. The fact that it is fenced up now and is no longer used for parking means something is going to happen fairly soon. I seriously doubt they would make such a large set of billboards and make them to where everyone going by could not possibly miss seeing them if they were not close to breaking ground. Every other project ive seen when signs have gone up, save for one (and it did end up being built and im talking about 4 Seasons Residences) were put up just before construction began. Its also striking as to the size of those billboards. They are not small at all as you put it. Compare it to 3rd and Colorado's and they are at least double the size.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

Again, if they wanted to they could have simply put them up in the beginning. Those signs would have not altered the use of the lot. The fact that it is fenced up now and is no longer used for parking means something is going to happen fairly soon. I seriously doubt they would make such a large set of billboards and make them to where everyone going by could not possibly miss seeing them if they were not close to breaking ground. Every other project ive seen when signs have gone up, save for one (and it did end up being built and im talking about 4 Seasons Residences) were put up just before construction began. Its also striking as to the size of those billboards. They are not small at all as you put it. Compare it to 3rd and Colorado's and they are at least double the size.

It's the fencing off that is the big clue. They can just throw up the signs and leave the lot open if it weren't gonna start soon. They're loosing money by not having it open to parking by fencing it off, which is bad business. This means they're starting soon or doing prep-work.

[KevinFromTexas]

Maybe the signs are a sign that it'll happen. I do know of one small project that had put up a sign many years ago (at least a decade ago) that didn't start, but that project is back now. I'm talking about the Capitol Commons project. Anyway, I remember the signs for the Frost Bank Tower were giant. I seem to remember they were a good 15 feet tall or more. Even the "little" Frost Bank Tower signs they put up along the pedestrian walkways are 48x48 inches. I actually have a few of them that I got from the developer. I have one hanging over my headboard on my bed.

[bigdogc]

There are a few construction workers there right now. One had a small bulldozer.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

It's the fencing off that is the big clue. They can just throw up the signs and leave the lot open if it weren't gonna start soon. They're loosing money by not having it open to parking by fencing it off, which is bad business. This means they're starting soon or doing prep-work.

exactly.

[AusTxDevelopment]

Originally Posted by austlar1

With signs that big (and with the Manchester family name splashed all over them), they had better have the financing, or they will be laughed out of town. Even Tom Stacey never stuck his neck out this far. The Manchester family is nothing if not a PROUD family, so I suspect they have a plan. I think the negative press regarding this project out in San Diego prompted them to put up the signs. More will be revealed.

I didn't mean to imply they 'couldn't' get financing - I just mentioned that they don't have permanent financing in place yet. It's taking them longer than they anticipated. If a project sits fallow for too long it starts to get snake-bit and that makes it even harder to get financing in place. They absolutely want to build it. I'm sure they will eventually get the cash and start the project in earnest. You can stretch 'site work' (aka fence it off and push some dirt around) out for months to make it look like you have activity, so its not like they have to close on their financing this second or its all over. I doubt that parking revenue was putting much of a dent in their carrying costs so it's no real loss to them to shut it down and start the site work.

[AusTxDevelopment]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

....I do know of one small project that had put up a sign many years ago (at least a decade ago) that didn't start, but that project is back now. I'm talking about the Capitol Commons project.

Capitol Commons is going to start construction sometime this year. Dupont Group just sold the site to a user, meaning a company that is going to own and occupy the building, so it's going from office condos to a single-tenant owner occupied property. The footprint will stay the same because it is permitted, but it will probably drastically change in appearance.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Maybe the signs are a sign that it'll happen. I do know of one small project that had put up a sign many years ago (at least a decade ago) that didn't start, but that project is back now. I'm talking about the Capitol Commons project. Anyway, I remember the signs for the Frost Bank Tower were giant. I seem to remember they were a good 15 feet tall or more. Even the "little" Frost Bank Tower signs they put up along the pedestrian walkways are 48x48 inches. I actually have a few of them that I got from the developer. I have one hanging over my headboard on my bed.

I am glad the new signs show the full building; the first signs suspiciously only showed the ground levels, which made me worry about a significant downsizing of the project.

Still, I won't be all itshappening.gif until I start seeing some concrete and rebar rising. It's amazing how much cynicism we've lost when we put so much credibility into the sign (although it's clearly the most positive indication to date). I mean, we were the home of the "Intel Shell" not too long ago. That tells you just how little a sign, site work, and even some construction could mean.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Shoot...I was hoping they would have streamlined the tower and made it a bit taller (very wishful thinking). In any case, I will be extremely happy when they break ground.

Me too. But by maximizing the number of rooms on each floor, I would imagine it will be easier to manage, especially in regards to housekeeping efficiency.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by hookem

I am glad the new signs show the full building; the first signs suspiciously only showed the ground levels, which made me worry about a significant downsizing of the project.

Still, I won't be all itshappening.gif until I start seeing some concrete and rebar rising. It's amazing how much cynicism we've lost when we put so much credibility into the sign (although it's clearly the most positive indication to date). I mean, we were the home of the "Intel Shell" not too long ago. That tells you just how little a sign, site work, and even some construction could mean.

I completely forgot about the Intel shell and the very underwhelming implosion that I still think was not as successful as the demo crew claimed.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by AusTxDevelopment

I didn't mean to imply they 'couldn't' get financing - I just mentioned that they don't have permanent financing in place yet. It's taking them longer than they anticipated. If a project sits fallow for too long it starts to get snake-bit and that makes it even harder to get financing in place. They absolutely want to build it. I'm sure they will eventually get the cash and start the project in earnest. You can stretch 'site work' (aka fence it off and push some dirt around) out for months to make it look like you have activity, so its not like they have to close on their financing this second or its all over. I doubt that parking revenue was putting much of a dent in their carrying costs so it's no real loss to them to shut it down and start the site work.

So I take it you know for a fact that they do not have permanent financing in place. If so how recent is your info? Also could it be possible that some new developments regarding secure financing occured that you may not yet know about? Just curious since you seem have more info on whats actually going on than any of us.

[AusTxDevelopment]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

So I take it you know for a fact that they do not have permanent financing in place. If so how recent is your info? Also could it be possible that some new developments regarding secure financing occured that you may not yet know about? Just curious since you seem have more info on whats actually going on than any of us.

Well, yes, it is entirely possible something could have happened that I don't know about. I don't talk to Manchester directly. But as of last week I was told they didn't have permanent financing. My info comes from the structured finance brokers I talk to who specialize in debt placement and securing equity for development, since my business is development. That doesn't mean what I hear is always right, but so far everything I've heard from them has been correct.

[ivanwolf]

I think the discrepancy in timing still has to do with waller creek project. The parking being stopped could be related to a lease that the parking company wanted vs the Fairmont wanted as far as terms go and a contract. That big of a project does not need the small $ they would get when they could easily do basic site work until waller is completed. Then they would start the main project and be completed around the announced times in late 2017.

[deerhoof]

https://twitter.com/FairmontAustin

So, if their twitter says it's construction, it must be construction, right?

[JoninATX]

Awesome!