Detroit then and now: An infographic.

[pdxtex]

what detroit could really use is some better p.r. while the enlightened members of this board know that detroit really is a huge and successful metropolitan region, the u.s. press only thinks of it as an impoverished inner city. im from ann arbor, but to anybody outside of michigan, i just say im from detoit. but i take the time to explain the se michigan is basically all detroit. its one big giant cement mass of hard working proud americans. not to be cliche but michigan folks are determined, matter of fact and usually pretty honest. so next time you have a conversation with a stranger about detroit, you can also mention thats its also a region, and a great one at that....

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Brandon716

Hmm, the easy answer to that is a huge federal bailout to the city that is still inside one of America's largest metro areas, 6 million people call the Detroit-Flint area home. A bailout that has strong strings attached would be required.

Raze the crap left in the city, rebuild its ailing infrastructure, create federally sanctioned and backed investment banks that are private in addition to direct public funding to have the ability to do such huge steps, necessary steps to rebuild. Get the nation's best developers, urban planners, and community organizers together and develop a new plan for Detroit.

Each block of Detroit that has been razed needs intense redevelopment, condo and housing development, retail development, transportation and infrastructure rebuilding such as water lines that are 100+ years old, electric, gas, etc.

Essentially those who have homes taken via eminent domain should get near-free replacements or mortgage equalized transfers, considering the radical condition the city finds itself in. Innovative programs that show if a person has a home with a $40k mortgage, they should be transferred to a new condo or housing development and owe $40k left on that loan at the new place even if the property took $100k to build. The 'bailout' would fund the remainder of that loss.

Then again, my ideas are a bit utopian at best. Raw capitalism will keep Detroit on its back for years to come, probably my entire lifetime for certain. I've always been the type of person to believe government has a role where the private market has such massive failure. Using every power the government has to make life survivable, livable, and redevelop a destroyed city is probably government's most important role in society to better everyone and give people hope and a future to depend on.

But I know it won't happen, and so do Detroiters. Even with Obama in office there's no talk of a people bailout, it'll never happen. Its immaterial I suppose and just some random thoughts I had. If we could seriously withdraw funding for unnecessary military affairs and reinvest into parts of America that are in dire need of repair it'd be great.

Don't think it's going to happen. The city has always asked for additional federal and state support. They will not be receiving it any time soon. As I said in other threads, Detroit does not have a money problem, it has a MANAGEMENT problem. It's had a long history of wasted resources and bad spending.

Here's just one example I'll cite where YOUR tax dollars are being mis-allocated.
http://goo.gl/maps/uDwCz

New ADA curbs and truncated domes are required at all street intersections. They costs thousands to build. It's great they are being built in communities across the US and they should. But do you think they should be built in the streetview link above? An intersection with non-contiguous sidewalk and no chance of redevelopment in the lifespan of the pavement? And even in the remote chance someone comes by in a motor scooter, they'll opt for the street which is a travel-able surface...unlike many sidewalks in neighborhoods. Obviously this is kind of an apples-oranges example. But the point is money is being spent in certain places it shouldn't. But any type of spending towards programs that work...either getting more marketable housing in the city, funding for business startups, facade improvements, transit improvements that will stretch dollars further will make a big difference.

Where I'd like to see federal and state money allocated is towards CDCs and landbanks. They'll make a bigger impact at a fine grain level and are directly responsible and accountable for improvements to the neighborhoods.

[TheBigGeo08]

Detroit's a lost cause. I say let the city rot and salvage what's remaining of the historic buildings. Maybe open up MCS for tourists, that will bring in some revenue.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

what detroit could really use is some better p.r. while the enlightened members of this board know that detroit really is a huge and successful metropolitan region, the u.s. press only thinks of it as an impoverished inner city. im from ann arbor, but to anybody outside of michigan, i just say im from detoit. but i take the time to explain the se michigan is basically all detroit. its one big giant cement mass of hard working proud americans. not to be cliche but michigan folks are determined, matter of fact and usually pretty honest. so next time you have a conversation with a stranger about detroit, you can also mention thats its also a region, and a great one at that....

People are going to judge Detroit by it's inner-city conditions no matter how great PR makes the region sound. And you can't really hide Detroit's problems.

[hudkina]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

People are going to judge Detroit by it's inner-city conditions no matter how great PR makes the region sound. And you can't really hide Detroit's problems.

It wouldn't be that hard to hide. If the tri-county area merged into a single municipality, it would instantly have a murder rate on par with Houston and a poverty rate on par with a Portland or San Diego. It would instantly drop off all the "worst of" lists. It would also have a population of nearly 4 million people, putting it at #2 behind New York.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by hudkina

It wouldn't be that hard to hide. If the tri-county area merged into a single municipality, it would instantly have a murder rate on par with Houston and a poverty rate on par with a Portland or San Diego. It would instantly drop off all the "worst of" lists. It would also have a population of nearly 4 million people, putting it at #2 behind New York.

They killed off that idea very promptly in the 1920s.

But it would be quite interesting to see an Indianapolis-style consolidation. I wonder if the city would somehow still manage to completely misuse and waste resources.

[tablemtn]

Consolidation is unrealistic, but if we're plotting cynically, Detroit COULD "liberate" some of the most undesirable pieces of itself, Highland Park-style, and spin them off as their own independent cities/townships.

For instance, imagine a city of Krainz Woods, Michigan, or Mackave, Michigan...

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by fflint

The 1950s called--they want their 'urban renewal' ideas back.

Not even remotely comparable imo. Redeveloping an already abandoned landscape is far different from molding it into an auto friendly suburbia and destructing an in tact system. Most of the city of Detroit is already 'destroyed.'

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Don't think it's going to happen. The city has always asked for additional federal and state support. They will not be receiving it any time soon. As I said in other threads, Detroit does not have a money problem, it has a MANAGEMENT problem. It's had a long history of wasted resources and bad spending.

Here's just one example I'll cite where YOUR tax dollars are being mis-allocated.
http://goo.gl/maps/uDwCz

New ADA curbs and truncated domes are required at all street intersections. They costs thousands to build. It's great they are being built in communities across the US and they should. But do you think they should be built in the streetview link above? An intersection with non-contiguous sidewalk and no chance of redevelopment in the lifespan of the pavement? And even in the remote chance someone comes by in a motor scooter, they'll opt for the street which is a travel-able surface...unlike many sidewalks in neighborhoods. Obviously this is kind of an apples-oranges example. But the point is money is being spent in certain places it shouldn't. But any type of spending towards programs that work...either getting more marketable housing in the city, funding for business startups, facade improvements, transit improvements that will stretch dollars further will make a big difference.

Where I'd like to see federal and state money allocated is towards CDCs and landbanks. They'll make a bigger impact at a fine grain level and are directly responsible and accountable for improvements to the neighborhoods.

I'm just imagining what would happen in an alternate universe at this point. I fully admit it isn't reality, but there's nothing wrong with the power of imagination.

In a general sense I think strong leadership is key to any success, too much democracy and citizen input tends to kill projects as much as it helps them. But to strangle citizen input is also bad, so there's a balance to be had.

Detroit is so amazing because there really isn't another story quite like it. Even other cities in the Great Lakes are not in the same shape. Cleveland, Buffalo, Milwaukee (leaving Chicago out of the picture entirely for obvious reasons) all have in tact urban environments within the city limits that are gorgeous and well kept, Cleveland and Buffalo have rail transit systems in addition to viable bus systems (more than a people mover).

Detroit at least has a revitalized downtown that is well on its way to anchoring some sense of change. What I think Detroit is most interesting for is how well off many of its suburbs are, they are actually *more* attractive than many other cities of the nation with above average incomes.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by tablemtn

Consolidation is unrealistic, but if we're plotting cynically, Detroit COULD "liberate" some of the most undesirable pieces of itself, Highland Park-style, and spin them off as their own independent cities/townships.

For instance, imagine a city of Krainz Woods, Michigan, or Mackave, Michigan...

The only problem with 'liberating' areas is that they end up with nothing of value and therefore nothing to really support itself with. If they happen to be adjacent to Detroit's city limits, a suburb might be able to 'save' it but that doesn't seem anymore realistic than if Detroit 'invaded' surrounding communities.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

im from ann arbor, but to anybody outside of michigan, i just say im from detoit. but i take the time to explain the se michigan is basically all detroit. its one big giant cement mass of hard working proud americans. not to be cliche but michigan folks are determined, matter of fact and usually pretty honest. so next time you have a conversation with a stranger about detroit, you can also mention thats its also a region, and a great one at that....

Detroit is the name of the municipality. It is a place that is drastically different than its suburbs. The metro-area is surely tied to the core City, but why woouldn't you say your from Metro Detroit? By saying you’re from Detroit and then just pawning off the idea that , “hey, it’s all Detroit” is honestly a load of crap. It’s one big area of hard working people….except for the abandoned, historic, and cultural core that we all left to rot and laugh as Fox 29 shows the heart breaking story each night of people in Detroit (you know, the City and not the Metro) as they try to maiantain 100 years worth of infrastructure and the lion’s share of the area’s poor. That sure doesn’t sound like a unified, “hey, we are all Detroit” kind of thing is going on at all. I wonder how someone trying to keep his family safe and build a future in the City of Detroit feels about your whole, “it’s all Detroit logic.”

[hudkina]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

But it would be quite interesting to see an Indianapolis-style consolidation. I wonder if the city would somehow still manage to completely misuse and waste resources.

Considering the city would only get 18% of the the "metro council" vote, I highly doubt it. With a new population of 3.9 million, and let's just assume a council district would contain about 100,000 people, there would be roughly 40 seats on the council. Detroit would then only have 7 of those seats.

[hudkina]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Detroit is the name of the municipality. It is a place that is drastically different than its suburbs. The metro-area is surely tied to the core City, but why woouldn't you say your from Metro Detroit? By saying you’re from Detroit and then just pawning off the idea that , “hey, it’s all Detroit” is honestly a load of crap. It’s one big area of hard working people….except for the abandoned, historic, and cultural core that we all left to rot and laugh as Fox 29 shows the heart breaking story each night of people in Detroit (you know, the City and not the Metro) as they try to maiantain 100 years worth of infrastructure and the lion’s share of the area’s poor. That sure doesn’t sound like a unified, “hey, we are all Detroit” kind of thing is going on at all. I wonder how someone trying to keep his family safe and build a future in the City of Detroit feels about your whole, “it’s all Detroit logic.”

The same way people in every other metro do it? Want to go to the "Detroit" Zoo? What about the "Detroit" Airport? What about seeing a "Detroit" Pistons game? You won't be doing any of that within the municipality of Detroit. Over 80% of the people of "Detroit" don't actually live in the "Detroit" over which everyone waxes poetic. They live in relatively prosperous neighborhoods, free of crime.

[kool maudit]

and in the middle of them is this thing which the entire world notices, and to which their backs are turned. like it or not, it's a problem.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by hudkina

Considering the city would only get 18% of the the "metro council" vote, I highly doubt it. With a new population of 3.9 million, and let's just assume a council district would contain about 100,000 people, there would be roughly 40 seats on the council. Detroit would then only have 7 of those seats.

Instead of 100,000 districts, I used 200,000 districts but still 100,000 residents per council member.

Warren-Sterling Heights: 2 seats

Novi-Farmington Hills-Southfield: 2 seats

Livonia-Dearborn Heights-Dearborn: 2 seats

Pontiac-Auburn Hills-Rochester Hills-Shelby Township: 2 seats

Troy-Royal Oak-Ferndale-Huntington Woods-Berkley-Birmingham: 2 seats

Roseville-Eastpointe-St. Clair Shores-Harper Woods-Grosse Pointe(s) (all of them): 2 seats

Macomb Township-Clinton Township-Mt. Clemons-Fraser-Harrison Township: 2 seats

And so on... But either way, Detroit would still have the most seats (and also have 3 or 4 districts). I'd imagine this would get pretty complicated and there's probably a better way to organize this would-be metropolitan government.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by hudkina

The same way people in every other metro do it? Want to go to the "Detroit" Zoo? What about the "Detroit" Airport? What about seeing a "Detroit" Pistons game? You won't be doing any of that within the municipality of Detroit. Over 80% of the people of "Detroit" don't actually live in the "Detroit" over which everyone waxes poetic. They live in relatively prosperous neighborhoods, free of crime.

...typical response. My point was that PDXTEX was inferring that differentiating the City from the suburbs was somehow illogical. Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

and in the middle of them is this thing which the entire world notices, and to which their backs are turned. like it or not, it's a problem.

the gaia tree? :0


http://c0027112.cdn.cloudfiles.racks....com/17089.jpg

I've felt like parts of Detroit and other cities with large areas of abandonment could benefit from a sort of temporary ruralism - kind of a softening of the edges w/ foliage, selective demolition (but not widespread) and gravel roads with small village/town type urban nodes.

Later would come densification.

[Barbarossa]

Keep Detroit the way it is, it symbolizes what this dystopian nightmare we call America is really all about.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by PHL10

...typical response. My point was that PDXTEX was inferring that differentiating the City from the suburbs was somehow illogical. Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Differenting the city from the suburbs is in fact illogical. We don't live in a world of walled communities, and municipal boundaries are arbitrary based on local political customs.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Barbarossa

Keep Detroit the way it is, it symbolizes what this dystopian nightmare we call America is really all about.

yeah but that gets boring.