McMahon Stadium Replacement

[Riise]

Begrudgingly, I am beginning to think that Calgary does in fact need a new stadium. While I do appreciate the natural deterrent McMahon is to fans of the quieter and boring variety, I think the lack of a high-quality venue is hurting Calgary. It looks just plain terrible when Moncton is selected as a venue for a major FIFA event over Calgary.

While not having a venue that will allow Calgary to compete with other cities for major events seems like an adequate justification for building a new stadium, the most pertinent justification might be having a new stadium project that is financially feasible. This stems from the fact that I keep hearing the question, "How are we going to justify spending hundreds of millions on a facility that will only be used about 10-12 times a year?".

So how do we go about answering this question? Simple, build a facility that can be used numerous times throughout the year (i.e. an indoor stadium).

Now, I am a firm believe that that outdoor sports should be played outdoors so I tend to hate indoor stadiums because even those with retractable roofs tend to have an artificial feel. However, those beautiful Swedes have built an indoor stadium that I think I would happily trek to in order to watch the Stamps or any other type of football match.

The Tele2 Arena

The Tele2 Arena is a beautiful stadium in Stockholm that is not only a gem to look at but appears to have an 'outdoor feel' when the roof is retracted. Most importantly, it looks as though the stadium will be thoroughly used as an entertainment venue. The Tele2 Arena will host football matches, special hockey games, motorsports, concerts, and even corporate events.

Is this something that could work in Calgary? As the $381M cost of the Tele2 Arena shows, it would still be a costly venture. However, it would offer so many opportunities to recoup those costs as opposed to even cheaper outdoor alternatives. Another thing to consider would be the Flames ownership, would they be able to fill both a new arena and stadium from the same pool of events? The ability for stadiums like the Tele2 Arena to host corporate events might help make this possible.

Thoughts? Other ideas?

[hulkrogan]

Some of those pictures look pretty dark and Texas Stadium-ish with the roof open. Not sure if I'm a fan.

[Innersoul1]

What's the capacity?

[Riise]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Some of those pictures look pretty dark and Texas Stadium-ish with the roof open. Not sure if I'm a fan.

One of the things I don't like about the arena are the blank walls behind the highest row of seats. If this wasn't filled with additional rows of seats, as might be necessary to increase the capacity to a level Calgary would need, I'd like to see a more transparent wall. If some of the roofing materials were more transparent, that would help as well.

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

What's the capacity?

Sorry, should have included that.

Stats
Capacity: 30,000 - 33,000 (Football) | 40,000 (Concerts)
Broke Ground: 10 September 2010
Opening: 20 July 2013
Cost: $381M | SEK 2.7B | €290M
Tenants: Djurgårdens IF & Hammarby IF

Also, it is owned by the City of Stockholm but operated by AEG.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

What's the capacity?

30,370 seated; McMahon is 35,650. In the last 2 seasons, 17 Stampeders games would have fit; 5 would have not. (Two Labour Day Classics, two times hosting the Roughriders, and in 2011 against Montreal, where there were 16 too many people.) The challenge is that we can add another 10K to McMahon for special events with temporary bleachers, which would be hard to do in this sort of stadium.

[Welkin]

There is a reason that very few indoor/outdoor stadiums are ever built. They are terribly expensive to build, run up tremendous heating/cooling costs, have terrible accoustics for concerts and even though then can be used year round, they seldom are used throughout the year. Most of the facilities stand empty 80% of the the year. The facilities are rather interesting from an engineering point of view, but they rarely ever justify themselves from a financial point of view. Most require massive government subsidies just to stay open. Again they look cool, just as long as you are not the one paying the bill.

[Luk_o]

As a long time season ticket holder, I would like the replacement stadium to remain open air, just more of a bowl with better closure on the end zones and a better canopy over the top of the sides. The elements are part of the game, and with these improved features, it would cut down on the shittiest factor when it's cold - the wind. Scrapping the retractable roof would make room for more important features like wider concourses and improved toiletries - Tons of them. Also - Make the stadium at least 40k capacity. If the stadium isn't such a hole, more people would come out to the games guaranteed.

[monocle]

Would having a roof (retractable or fixed) open up more options for hosting concerts? Would that be a consideration?
I guess it might not matter if the stadium was built somewhere else.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Welkin

There is a reason that very few indoor/outdoor stadiums are ever built. They are terribly expensive to build, run up tremendous heating/cooling costs, have terrible accoustics for concerts and even though then can be used year round, they seldom are used throughout the year. Most of the facilities stand empty 80% of the the year. The facilities are rather interesting from an engineering point of view, but they rarely ever justify themselves from a financial point of view. Most require massive government subsidies just to stay open. Again they look cool, just as long as you are not the one paying the bill.

One of the reasons why I usually dislike indoor stadiums is the exorbitant price tag usually associated with them. However, indoor and outdoor stadiums both cost a pretty penny and spending more could be worthwhile if this extra cost helps recoup money an outdoor stadium would never be able to recoup as quickly if at all.

Investors Group Field (IGF) cost half as much as Tele2 Arena ($381M) and less than half as much as Friends Arena ($433M) but do you think if Stockholm had built only one of Tele2 Arena or Friends Arena, IGF would still represent a better value? Look at the calendar for BC Place, it is jam packed with conventions throughout the year. Between BC Place and IGF which one would need subsidization for its current level of operations?

Size-wise, Calgary and Saskatchewan are probably going to be looking for something similar to Friends Arena (50,000 capacity). Saskatchewan are thinking it is going to cost around $278M and the Swedes spent $433M. Not including the lower cost of living/construction in Canada that's a $155M difference. It does look pretty high but if we could book as well as BC Place does, which is reasonable considering our lack of convention space, you'd have to at least look that $155M as a possible investment.

Originally Posted by Luk_o

As a long time season ticket holder, I would like the replacement stadium to remain open air, just more of a bowl with better closure on the end zones and a better canopy over the top of the sides. The elements are part of the game, and with these improved features, it would cut down on the shittiest factor when it's cold - the wind. Scrapping the retractable roof would make room for more important features like wider concourses and improved toiletries - Tons of them. Also - Make the stadium at least 40k capacity. If the stadium isn't such a hole, more people would come out to the games guaranteed.

I definitely understand where you are coming from as I even miss the smell of real grass at stadiums with FieldTurf but indoor stadiums like Tele2 Arena and Friends Arena have opened me up to compromise. I'd don't think the City or Flames ownership group could justify the cost of building a new open air stadium that would do Calgary justice and allow us to compete for major international events. Consequently, we'd have to settle for an indoor stadium that provides a sufficient level of quality but also doesn't cost too much.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by monocle

Would having a roof (retractable or fixed) open up more options for hosting concerts? Would that be a consideration?
I guess it might not matter if the stadium was built somewhere else.

I think it would.

This year BC Place is hosting the concerts of Taylor Swift and Jay Z & Justin Timberlake while Swedish House Mafia inaugurated the Friends Arena in Stockholm last year.

[McMurph]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Some of those pictures look pretty dark and Texas Stadium-ish with the roof open. Not sure if I'm a fan.

I agree. Definitely not a pleasant place for a beer and a hot dog on a sunny afternoon.

The roof dimensions of it seem similar to the Estadio do Drago in Porto, which manages to be a whole lot brighter and more outdoorsy (though it doesn't close and is open under the eaves at each end). Something like that, with a retractable roof, down by the Bow in the west end could be pretty sweet.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by McMurph

I agree. Definitely not a pleasant place for a beer and a hot dog on a sunny afternoon.

That's actually a really good way of putting it. Even if a similar stadium to Tele2 Arena was built in Calgary that had a transparency comparable to Reliant Stadium, I'm not sure if it would be able to provide that feeling of having a beer and a hot dog in an open air stadium.

[DizzyEdge]

what if it was designed so that it was a larger building, but same size of stands, so that the retractable roof opening was more aligned with the very top seats on all sides, bathing more than just the field in sunlight?

The key in this photo:



is the opening is aligned with the outer edge of the field, rather than the outer edge of the stands.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

what if it was designed so that it was a larger building, but same size of stands, so that the retractable roof opening was more aligned with the very top seats on all sides, bathing more than just the field in sunlight?

[...]

is the opening is aligned with the outer edge of the field, rather than the outer edge of the stands.

I believe the opening aligns with the perimeter of the field as opposed to the seating area. While I do think an alignment with the latter might help increase the amount of light, without the overlap all fans would be exposed to both light rain and direct sunlight when the roof is retracted. At least in Europe, there is a trend/requirement for high-end stadiums to cover at least 80% of the stands.

This doesn't mean blocking out all sunlight but at least protecting fans via a transparent covering of the stands. This is one of the two things that I think indoor stadiums might have to include: i) transparent roofs; and ii) transparent sidings along the top perimeter of the stadium. While Reliant Stadium achieved the former, they didn't go far enough with the latter.

[Innersoul1]

Just saw a tweet this morning that they have replaced the FieldTurf at McMahon Stadium. From the aerial shot provided it looks to be entirely green, save for the standard field markings. No UofC or Stampeders logos, I imagine that they will be be using temporary paint this year.
http://www.stampeders.com/article/mcmahon-gets-new-turf

Photo Credit: Bruce Daniels @QR77Calgary

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Just saw a tweet this morning that they have replaced the FieldTurf at McMahon Stadium. From the aerial shot provided it looks to be entirely green, save for the standard field markings. No UofC or Stampeders logos, I imagine that they will be be using temporary paint this year.
http://www.stampeders.com/article/mcmahon-gets-new-turf

Photo Credit: Bruce Daniels @QR77Calgary

From chatting with Gord Norrie (President) at the fan forum, he was saying that the logos in the end zones will be colored and more pominent this time around. Really looking forward to the new 'tron this season - long, long over due.

[Innersoul1]

Can you tell me more about the jumbotron? I had no idea they were FINALLY upgrading.

[The Fisher Account]

Stop putting money into this dump and build a new goddamn stadium already!

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Can you tell me more about the jumbotron? I had no idea they were FINALLY upgrading.

http://www.stampeders.com/article/st...ments-unveiled

30x50' high def main board for video/replays and 11x40' auxiliary for scores/messaging .

[Luk_o]

Old scoreboard / screen currently coming down at McMahon. Im jacked that we're getting a modern new one but I hope they dont trash the old one! The iconic McMahon Stadium script on the backside is an important peice of Calgary sport history - this should definately be preserved for display somehow down the road, either by the Stamps, Glenbow, etc. Integrating that backside somehow into the concourse of a new stadium, or stadium improvments down the road would be awesome.