Green Line LRT - $4.6 Billion Project

[MalcolmTucker]

^ given the lead time needed for the tunnel, I could see future phases contracted years later and completed simultaneously.



I don't think the "window" remains open-able at will. Best to take this one.



In no case does starting later get LRT built out sooner.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ given the lead time needed for the tunnel, I could see future phases contracted years later and completed simultaneously.



I don't think the "window" remains open-able at will. Best to take this one.



In no case does starting later get LRT built out sooner.

I do respect you have better knowledge than I do of how funding for all this works. But I'll believe it when I see it - the city is doing a very poor job of giving the impression they can get the Green Line built. The Green Line seems further away now than it did two years ago.

Do we have a window for sure? What if the city comes back and says that even after trying to build the tunnel cheaper, it simply isn't possible to build within the budget available? What if the province pulls the funding? Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but not unreasonably so, IMO.

[craner]

Is cut & cover even being considered for the downtown tunnel ? Would it be cheaper than a TBM ?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by craner

Is cut & cover even being considered for the downtown tunnel ? Would it be cheaper than a TBM ?

How disruptive would it be though?

[milomilo]

I'm sure they're considering all options but it may not be cheaper. The majority of subways built for decades use bored tunnels primarily, not particularly because it is less disruptive but because it is the only feasible option, or cheapest option.

[ClaytonA]

https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/sprawl...the-green-line

Agree. Green Line has not been the number one priority of this city council since it was elected in Oct 2017.

I'd order them thus:

1) Tax cuts especially for businesses

2) Approving 14 new communities/business friendliness...

3) West ring road connections/expanding City roads up to new provincial construction

4) BMO Centre

5) Hockey Arena

6) Olympics

7) Green Line

8) Field House / Art Commons

[ClaytonA]

Cut and cover should be done. It's cheaper since you can dig all along the route at the same time and then jack completed underpasses under places like the CPR and 4, 5, and 7 Ave's.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ever...box-under-road

That said it'd still be my preference to use a TBM under the Bow River, although that seems off the table. If the vertical alignment at the Bow River is changing perhaps the horizontal alignment should too. 1 St SW looks like an obvious candidate instead of 2 St SW as part of the road could be taken for LRT and the CPR part could be easier since there's already a separated grade (just need to change the approaches). Of course what's underground?

[ClaytonA]

To re-build a coalition, if you were Keating what would you be offerring?

Part of the reason Chu and Magliocca came out right away with Gondek is partly strategy, so that she wouldn't backtrack. This is standard libertarian playbook of LRT->BRT->express bus. Magliocca has always been against this project. Chu has twisted himself into a pretzel to express support, but his actions... he'd rather lower your taxes. For example with the 2018 money the province didn't take. It specifically came up that this was the one-time pot that Keating started with and Chu's notice of motion was to give a one-time property tax rebate.

What would it take to get them back on board?

A funded land assembly program?
Funded design work so that the project actually is "shovel ready"?
It has to be something in the right now, this term, present to re-gain the initiative, so that after the 4 year delay north-central is also ready to go to procurement.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

A funded land assembly program?
Funded design work so that the project actually is "shovel ready"?
It has to be something in the right now, this term, present to re-gain the initiative, so that after the 4 year delay north-central is also ready to go to procurement.

I agree, it'll have to be at least the confirmation of Stage 2 to be from 16th Ave to at least 64th/Beddington and prioritization of acquiring land and finishing the preliminary design for it.

[joe498]

From Green Line Committee meeting today:
https://twitter.com/CBCScott/status/1195383201788645376

@CBCScott
As previously reported, Green Line will no longer go under Bow River (it will be on a bridge) and boring a tunnel DT is now out. #yyccc

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by joe498

From Green Line Committee meeting today:
https://twitter.com/CBCScott/status/1195383201788645376

Value engineering? This is looking really bad now. Best course of action is to cancel the project and learn from the mistakes made when it comes to planning or lack thereof, why ideologically driven policies are bad, etc. Repeating the mistakes of the past which is exactly where this is headed is the last thing we need especially at the dollar amounts involved.

[lucx]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Value engineering?

Not quite. Geology and building foundations meant they had to tunnel 7 stories underground for both single and twin bore. The tunnel drove up cost while reducing functionality. They are now leaning towards cut and cover through downtown and beltline, with a bridge over the river. No routing was announced at the time.

Source: I was at the presentation.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by lucx

Not quite. Geology and building foundations meant they had to tunnel 7 stories underground for both single and twin bore. The tunnel drove up cost while reducing functionality. They are now leaning towards cut and cover through downtown and beltline, with a bridge over the river. No routing was announced at the time.

Source: I was at the presentation.

What does cut and cover mean?

Also, for anyone who is more engineeringly inclined than I, visually, what would the line look like through downtown and over the river and into crescent heights with this newly proposed plan?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

What does cut and cover mean?

Dig a hole, put the tunnel in it, fill in the hole.

Originally Posted by YYCguys

Also, for anyone who is more engineeringly inclined than I, visually, what would the line look like through downtown and over the river and into crescent heights with this newly proposed plan?

Some options at 5:15 onwards:

• Video Link

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Dig a hole, put the tunnel in it, fill in the hole.

Oh sorry. I hope you didn’t think it was a stupid question. I am not an engineer (just a flight attendant) so I didn’t know the terminology was so literal.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by lucx

Not quite. Geology and building foundations meant they had to tunnel 7 stories underground for both single and twin bore. The tunnel drove up cost while reducing functionality. They are now leaning towards cut and cover through downtown and beltline, with a bridge over the river. No routing was announced at the time.

Source: I was at the presentation.

I was just going off of the slide the CBC guy tweeted out that had "Value engineering" as one of the bullet points. What you describe doesn't sound too bad but who knows without details.

[craner]

Originally Posted by lucx

Not quite. Geology and building foundations meant they had to tunnel 7 stories underground for both single and twin bore. The tunnel drove up cost while reducing functionality. They are now leaning towards cut and cover through downtown and beltline, with a bridge over the river. No routing was announced at the time.

Source: I was at the presentation.

This sounds pretty good.
Just don't run it on the surface through downtown & Bleltline PLEASE !!

[joe498]

Should Calgary’s Green Line be split into 2 legs? Committee considering options

https://globalnews.ca/news/6176567/c...itting-option/

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by joe498

Should Calgary’s Green Line be split into 2 legs? Committee considering options

https://globalnews.ca/news/6176567/c...itting-option/

If the line is split up, assuming that the central terminus is 7th ave, for the North or south line, each will still have to travel through downtown to get there. So, more surface, elevated, ...? I cant imagine that the central terminuses would be on the edges of city centre (Eau Claire or 10th ave, respectively).

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah, it doesn’t remove anything expensive from the line imo.