Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Future Mayor]

I think even a reduction in fares would go a really long way in increasing ridership. I don't know what the current occupancy is on the morning and evening commutes, as I unfortunately don't have the opportunity to ride UTA. I do wonder if dropping it even by a dollar would increase the occupancy during those peak times, creating fuller trains and ultimately collecting about the same amount of revenue from riders.

I do think that part of the States efforts to clear up the pollutants in the air is to designate some funding to drastically reduce if not eliminate the fares on UTA on Red Air days. The signs on the freeway are great and all, but there has to be a bigger incentive to change peoples habits.

Speaking of an incentive to change peoples habits, the majority of people make changes based on pain. Emotional, Physical, financial, time or a variety of other types of pain. Expanding I-15 more will not cause people to change. People getting tired of sitting in traffic, which will come in 5 years after they expand I-15 anyway, is a time pain that can cause people to change habits, and look for alternative forms of transportation. Slowly eliminating the federal subsidies to oil companies, resulting in higher gas prices will also cause some pain and effect change.

Another way UTA could reduce fairs is to limit the number of former CEO's that are still getting massive salaries.

As for completely eliminating the fares, I agree with the homeless statements. As was mentioned the free fare zone is already filled with homeless, if the entire system were free the homeless would simply ride the entire system all day to stay out of the cold.

[Makid]

I think the best way to address the air situation would be to do the following:

Reduce fares to the current Fare Pay card level for all forms of payment. This is a 40% to 50% reduction of current Trax and Bus fares. The Frontrunner reduction is 20% I think.

These prices become the new standard going forward.

The State should set aside funding so that on Yellow, Orange and Red air days, UTA is 100% free. This should include Frontrunner.

No extra buses would be needed nor Trax trains. Frontrunner should have an additional car for each train.

Standing room only would increase the chance that people would vote to increase capacity and service.

With starting the fare reduction now and the removal for Yellow days, this would help keep the air cleaner longer.

Using some numbers:

UTA receives roughly $90 Million a year from fares.

This breaks down to roughly $250,000 each day.

There are maybe 100 yellow or worse days a year for air quality.

This would be $25 Million a year.

Out of a roughly $13 Billion a year budget of which $4.5 Billion is available (not Education), the State should be able to come up with the extra funds. With Amazon bringing in roughly $200 Million a year in taxes and the majority (75%+) coming from the Wasatch Front, why can't they get some of the $150 Million they generate back to help the air.

[i-215]

UTA receives roughly $90 Million a year from fares.

$90 million is nothing. Less than building two new freeway interchanges on Bangerter Hwy. It is in the legislature's interest to just go ahead and fund it and make transit free.

I mean, what's the worst that would happen? TOO MANY people riding transit? Heaven help us.

[DMTower]

They should also pull their heads out of their asses and allow Tesla to sell directly in Utah.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by DMTower

They should also pull their heads out of their asses and allow Tesla to sell directly in Utah.

Yes! How's that lawsuit going anyway? I haven't been following.

Since 90 million per year is nothing (I suspect making transit free would cost less than this, because we could cut the costs UTA would otherwise be spending on fare collection and enforcement) - what other barriers would exist to making transit free?

Vagrancy is a concern - I wouldn't want transit to become mobile homeless shelters. How do Park City and Cache County deal with this issue? They must have come up with a solution, since they already run transit without fares. Is there some rule like 'you can only ride transit for 2 consecutive hours' or is it totally at the bus driver's discretion as to who is abusing the system?

[i-215]

We're lucky the Tesla story gets any coverage. Auto dealers are the #1 advertiser in local media, so station/paper management walks on eggshells around any story involving auto sales or auto salesmen.

On the hill, the Utah Auto Dealers Association wields a lot of power -- perhaps (arguably) almost as much power as a little white building a few blocks away.

[Hatman]

Not to interrupt the conversation, but this is making big news:
• Video Link
As you can see, the gates were up and the train came through anyway.

Here's what I know:

• UTA and UP share the corridor, but not the gates. The gates on the east side belong to UTA and the ones on the west belong to UP.

• Neither were down at the time.

• The gates default into the 'down' or 'active' position, just in case a train comes through when something is wrong with the gate. They are only up when they can detect there is no train.

• The power was out at the time.

• The article says that a UTA employee was at the scene, and shortly after the employee arrived the gates - which had been down for a long time - went up.

• There is a white light on the UTA-side gates that lights up when the gates are down. It is called the Grade Crossing Indicator light, or GCI. No FrontRunner train is allowed into the crossing unless the GCI is a solid white.

• The only exception to the GCI rule is if there is a UTA employee in the road at the intersection able to wave the train through.

• The GCI would not have been lit if the gates were still up, and especially if the power was out.

My analysis: This is UTA's fault. Most likely the FrontRunner operator got 'lost' in the snow and didn't know they were coming up on the disabled crossing so fast. Less likely is the possibility that the gate repairman radioed in that the gate was fixed and that the train could proceed through. I say less likely because the GCI would still not have functioned, and the operator would have been riding the emergency brake through the crossing and would therefore be going slower. So one of the two UTA employees is going to be in big trouble.

I could be very wrong - I still have no explanation as to why the UP gates were also up - but human error is usually the guilty failure mode, so I feel no shame in throwing my guess out there.

Sad this stuff has to happen, but at least it was caught on camera.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by i-215

We're lucky the Tesla story gets any coverage. Auto dealers are the #1 advertiser in local media, so station/paper management walks on eggshells around any story involving auto sales or auto salesmen.

On the hill, the Utah Auto Dealers Association wields a lot of power -- perhaps (arguably) almost as much power as a little white building a few blocks away.

Lobbyists should be disbanded!!

Government agents and agencies are there to protect the public and not the interests of corporations.

[Orlando]

Most of the solutions that have been presented previously are temporary band-aid solutions. The biggest solution is to change the land development policies. The government should have the power to wield over development by reasoning of protecting the people's health, the environment for future generations, and the reduction of tax burden on tax payers by penalizing or restricting infrastructure to developments that do not build close to existing infrastructure.

[Future Mayor]

That would be nice, however this is a very development friendly state and the leaders on the hill reflect that. What they don't understand is that development can still occur it can just occur in a more cost effective healthier way.

[ImaJem]

UTA just announced they’re starting a quarterly “Rider’s digest” pamphlet that can be picked up from any bus or train or downloaded online. This will include an overview of the past quarter, plans for the next, and a statement from the CEO. So basically, what they share on twitter and their blog.
http://rideuta.com/news/2017/01/New-...Train-Near-You

[I posted this on the last page, but I’ll post it again (modified)]
This is what I think UTA should do:
1) Monthly pass for $30, (partnering businesses, and schools could cover cost)
2) day-pass for $2, $5 incl. FR
3) Group pass for $5, $8 incl. FR.
4) Free pass for Seniors and disabled ($20 one-time fee, require a doctors note, AND have an address)
5) Free on orange and red-burn days.
All of these could be purchased from any TRAX or FrontRunner ticket machine or online, with apple pay, etc. Monthly passes can be filled up online like farepay.
It would also be cool to get perks for miles travelled.

I feel like this plan would be good for increasing ridership and addressing Hatman’s concerns.

I couldn't stop watching that video. I have to admit I found it more entertaining than I probably should have...
apparently, it was viral for a little bit. Oh, what a world we've come to be!

I wish our state would just allow tesla to sell cars! Shouldn't the buyer be able to choose? Tesla's are still expensive, I don't think it would affect the other car makers that badly.
I'm also tired of seeing ads about cars, shouldn't google know I read about trains and busses all day?

[T-Stan]

Originally Posted by Hatman

My analysis: This is UTA's fault. Most likely the FrontRunner operator got 'lost' in the snow and didn't know they were coming up on the disabled crossing so fast. Less likely is the possibility that the gate repairman radioed in that the gate was fixed and that the train could proceed through. I say less likely because the GCI would still not have functioned, and the operator would have been riding the emergency brake through the crossing and would therefore be going slower. So one of the two UTA employees is going to be in big trouble.

I could be very wrong - I still have no explanation as to why the UP gates were also up - but human error is usually the guilty failure mode, so I feel no shame in throwing my guess out there.

Sad this stuff has to happen, but at least it was caught on camera.

I live close to this crossing and last Saturday, I drove through it twice. The first time was around 8:45 a.m. The gates came down in front of me and I waited about 5 minutes and no trains passed through. The gates went back up and I drove on to my son's indoor soccer game.
The second time I drove past had to have been within a couple of minutes after the crash. The first police car was just arriving and the fire/ambulances were not there yet. I am glad that I stayed around to talk to a parent for a couple of minutes after the game.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by i-215

We're lucky the Tesla story gets any coverage. Auto dealers are the #1 advertiser in local media, so station/paper management walks on eggshells around any story involving auto sales or auto salesmen.

On the hill, the Utah Auto Dealers Association wields a lot of power -- perhaps (arguably) almost as much power as a little white building a few blocks away.

It would seem Tesla is coming out with some very attractive and more affordable models for 2017, also with newly extended range. The new model 3 will be around half the sticker price as the model S., coming in at $35,000. I would laugh if a couple of enterprising entrepreneurs set up big dealership hangers at Wendover and Evanston. Of course, assuming it's legal to sell Tesla directly and showroom inventory in Nevada and Wyoming. I don't know how many Tesla's there are here in L.A., but I sure do see a lot of them, especially on studio lots.

Model 3

http://s.newsweek.com

.

[ThePusherMan]

I actually see Teslas pretty often here in Salt Lake. 35,000 is a damn good price if you ask me.

[stayinginformed]

Originally Posted by delts145

It would seem Tesla is coming out with some very attractive and more affordable models for 2017, also with newly extended range. The new model 3 will be around half the sticker price as the model S., coming in at $35,000. I would laugh if a couple of enterprising entrepreneurs set up big dealership hangers at Wendover and Evanston. Of course, assuming it's legal to sell Tesla directly and showroom inventory in Nevada and Wyoming. I don't know how many Tesla's there are here in L.A., but I sure do see a lot of them, especially on studio lots.

Model 3

http://s.newsweek.com




.

That is a model S, here is the model 3:

From electrek.com

[Hatman]

Ha ha, you know you're a transportation engineer if you look at that picture and think "Hey, based on the striping, that car is going the wrong way! before realizing "Hey, I pre-ordered that car!"

If you ever doubt how much support there is for Tesla in Utah, watch this video of people lining up around the "Gallery" on March 31, 2016 - the day they first started accepting pre-orders for the Model 3. I was 40th in line (arrived at 6 that morning!) and the line peaked at over 300 long. The line didn't disappear until well after noon.

• Video Link

Whether the auto-dealers like it or not, Tesla and the direct-sales model are coming to Utah. Right now, since you can't buy it in Utah, you can order it online and have technically bought it in California and had it shipped to Utah. It's not quite as good as buying in Utah because of California's higher sales tax (and the fact that the tax dollars go to California, not Utah, where UTA would have collected some of the sales tax), but at least you can still get your car without driving out of state.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Hatman

I attended an engineering conference yesterday

We were in the same room, Hatman!

The guy from MAG was fantastic! I see a bright future for this region. The keynote lunch speaker was meh, imo.

[justiny]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Ha ha, you know you're a transportation engineer if you look at that picture and think "Hey, based on the striping, that car is going the wrong way!

I'm not even a transportation engineer and that was my first thought as well!

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by i-215

We were in the same room, Hatman!

The guy from MAG was fantastic! I see a bright future for this region. The keynote lunch speaker was meh, imo.

Right on! Yeah, that lunch speaker was an interesting choice...

About the FrontRunner - FedEx truck crash, it looks like I was mostly right:
UTA Says FedEx, FrontRunner Collision Was a Result of 'Human Error'
http://www.good4utah.com/news/local-...rror/647205131

The employee in question was the gate repairman, not the operator. Sorry, Operator, for blaming you.

[Future Mayor]

An interesting article regarding the removal of urban freeways.

http://www.moderncities.com/article/...urban-highways

It has been mentioned that UDOT is considering removal of the 900 S off ramp and rather than having it come in on W. Temple it would come in at 300 W. I'm not sure if there have been actual conversations within UDOT or if that was simply a suggestion by a forumer.

I do however think that it would be a very good idea, and while the area between 300 W and W. Temple isn't as substantial as the scenarios in the above article I think it would have a tremendous positive impact on the Central 9th and Ballpark neighborhoods. W. Temple could be reduced south of 600 S, including a landscaped median, 2 lanes in each direction, and a bike lane.

It's just over 1,500' from 300 West to West Temple and the area between 300 and 200 W is about 240', while the area taken up by the off and on ramps adjacent to W. Temple is rather significant. Removing that section of the off ramp would open up rough 9 acres of developable land. It could reconnect Jefferson St and a connection on Washington St could be made as well.

Imagine the vibrancy that could be accomplished in that neighborhood with a Trax station on each end and a connected street grid with small and walkable streets.

I do see that the main obstacle would be dealing with the set of tracks that veers of the Trax main line and heads into the Granary District. If those could be abandoned then I could see 300 W being a viable alternative. Maybe the on ramp is from 400 W and the off ramp is at 300 W. 300 W already has the capacity to handle both, IMO