Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not leaping to the defence of "one the most homophobic belief systems that's still out there in the 21st century", I'm leaping to the defence of what I consider one of the most enlightened and progressive belief systems in human history. I'm defending the Canadian and Western ideals of individuality, non-conformity, government moral neutrality, and tolerance. It's the fact that you can't seem to understand people's motives that is causing you to be so "flabbergasted".
To reiterate, it isn't about them; they're just the example scenario in which these principles are being tested. I think it's pointless to hold values or principles only as long as it's comfortable and one isn't being in any way challenged. If they're true "values" you prove it. You have the integrity to demonstrate them consistently even at the risk of personal loss or discomfort.
But of course I already explained this in the election thread.
Regarding his actual question, I don't think it's a good thing for our government to be dominated by any one group whether it be one ethnic group, religious group, age group or other. And I certainly don't think it would be good for the government to be dominated by religion. But I don't agree that we should be alarmed by the prospect of Muslim people gaining in demographic representation. 100 years ago, Christianity was what I would describe as a dominant and regressive cultural force, but society has evolved a lot since then. If people of Muslim descent ever become the dominant cultural group in Canada, I have no reason to believe that they will retain the characteristics of their nations of origin. I mean, how many other immigrants retain the culture of their homeland across generations once they've settled in Canada?
Besides, this narrative of Western regions with Christian cultural origins being the beacon of enlightenment while Muslim dominated societies as being fundamentally backward seems rather revisionist. During the middle ages when Christianity dominated most of Europe and Islam was massively expanding, it was the beacon of enlightenment compared to the barbaric and backward Europe. They developed traditions in science and math such Algebra and Alchemy (what we now call chemistry) which are both Arabic words, and had splendid architecture and much more advanced medical practices. Even in present day, much of the reason for the oppressiveness of many Muslim societies is due to fundamentalist dictatorships.
If you've never seen the documentary "When the Moors ruled Europe", I highly recommend it. There's also a fascinating documentary called "Inside Islam" made by the history channel which I enjoyed. You can find both on Youtube I believe. There is also a three part series about the history of Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul over it's vast history that is equally fascinating (although long). I believe it was made by the BBC.
Besides, I honestly believe that the best way to spread Western ideals is to demonstrate why they're appealing. To demonstrate that we're willing to show equal tolerance and respect to everyone. That we're more interested in listening to people than in judging them. That culture is the things that we do and our way of life, not something that is threatened because someone else lives differently. To show that these values are for the benefit of everyone and not just to enforce the will of those more "established". And to show why we value them, rather than to show that such values are mostly lip service that we'll quickly push aside if something makes us uncomfortable.
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Gay Canadians have had a pretty good run over the past couple of decades.
As a result, the tendency to want to "share the wealth" and show magnanimity towards other minorities (regardless of their type) out of a sense of fraternity is a natural one for some people, I suppose.
I just think it's unwise to pooh-pooh the decidedly unprogressive views that exist in the more extreme fringes of some groups. Even if,
strictu sensu, it happens to be a question of freedom.
Yes, racist people and homophobic people will always exist. You can't force people to think a certain way.
But going the extra mile by rolling out the welcome mat and legitimizing them by granting them an "opt out" of certain societal practices (and even values) is the wrong way to go.
As a straight male who looks white (I am not 100% European in origin), I don't really have a horse competing directly in this race. I suppose at some point in the future one of my daughters could marry someone with religious or other views incompatible with mine when it comes to women, but that's a remote possibility.
On the other hand, I don't see any advantages for a gay person in a future Canada where there is an increasingly blank cheque for all religious beliefs, no matter how dubious some of them are. Even if it makes society technically "more diverse".
I guess you needn't worry too much though. If all of this goes to shit one day, people like lio, rousseau and I will still be there to save your butts. Provided we're still in the majority in this country!
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