Quote:
Originally Posted by JG573
How is it not respecting the justice system? They can take the ticket to court and go through the proper channels like any other ticket. It is this same paranoid thinking of the government that is really getting old. How do you being to compare putting Japanese people in jails during WW2 to getting a ticket because you make a traffic offensive.
Where your wrong is these cameras aren't an expansion of power they are simply a more efficient way of enforcing traffic offensives. You can still take the ticket to court challenging it but this time there is video proof which people oh so love the idea of accountability these days to the government but how about accountability to themselves. Most people opposed this in Phoenix because one they rather get away with speeding or got a ticket for or because their republican or libertarian ideas make them paranoid of the government even for things as little as camera's to enforce traffic violations. No society is free their has to be rules else anarchy will ensue.
The state already has to much power? That is almost laughable right? If you attribute enforcing traffic violations with power then I almost can't believe what I am reading. It is this same paranoid thinking that is ridiculous especially when you dehumanize the people in the government like their not people when if you didn't notice the state government is a bunch of PEOPLE put together and they are just like me and you. Talk about making parallels well most terrible things that have happened in this world usually happen like the locking up of the Japanese when they dehumanize people which people like to do with government like it is robots running it.
The paranoid thinking is a little much when you are completely making a big deal out of this when it is no more complicated then they are enforcing traffic violations so people will get the hint to abide by the law at least. Their holding people accountable just like the people with the government. If it gains a little money while it is implemented then good I hope it goes towards transit and alternative transportation projects.
Edit: response to another post
So if you get a ticket and their are circumstances such as those where someone is hit in the crosswalk or your car broke down then you simply take these claims to court where you will see a person and I bet they will be easily overturn but lets get it straight those are rare circumstances and now you are just reaching for any straw you can get your hand on. Camera's help also where enforcement lack as their are simply not enough police officers to do this work and I rather have camera's helping relieve enforcement so more police officers get deal with real problems not so much a traffic offense.
Traffic safety class is not as effective as someone getting a ticket and if it is a joke to think these will take away from cops jobs as I don't know about you but most major departments i know or read about have their hands absolutely full and try to free their officers up from minor offenses any way they can.
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You obviously haven't been in a position to have to contest something that shouldn't have been issued in the first place. I clerked for a justice court judge in law school and found the system slanted significantly in favor of the state. Fairness plays virtually no role in the process - it's about processing as many people through the system and extracting money from each and every one of them, regardless of the minor details. Most people don't know the rules of civil or traffic case procedures and they are fighting an uphill battle. Pretty much if it comes down to it, and it is your word versus the cop's word or a camera operated by the government issuing citations, you are going to lose, period. I was not "comparing" traffic violations with Japanese internment camps - I was merely pointing out that anytime you allow government to cut corners because it is expedient, you actually may be jeopardizing your freedoms.
Don't talk about "most people in Phoenix" unless you live here. Speaking in generalities is almost always incorrect. And don't appeal to the absurd - I am not suggesting we have no rules at all and thus am pushing for anarchy. I AM suggesting that we may wish to keep a watchful eye on government. If they want to issue citations through the mail, they should do it the same way that people suing each other for money damages have to do - with the use of a process server to properly serve the complaint and announce the lawsuit for money damages. This is why having a cop write the ticket eliminates the need to hire a process server - the cop handing you the ticket IS proper service in every U.S. state.
As for the revenue raised, if it actually was earmarked just for improving transportation, I'd have
slightly less of a problem with it. However, in every state where I have examined where this money goes, it always goes into the general fund, to be spent however the government wants to spend it. In fact, many states have been using the transportation dollars (e.g. gas tax revenue) they get from the federal government to balance their budgets. Arizona is one of those offending states, and there are many others.
Bottom line - I wish to force the governments (city, county and state) to play by the same rules as the rest of us. If I want to sue you for money damages, I don't get to mail you a copy of the lawsuit and threaten to lock you up/issue a warrant/suspend your driver's license (even though none of that may actually happen - as in Arizona) unless you cough up the dough. That is blackmail and it is sleazy. Having seen personally a number of mistakes with photo-generated tickets, I am reluctant to give the government more powers to fleece money from us.
--don