Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[ltsmotorsport]

I believe the financing is being held up because of the pending lawsuit against the project. No lender would green-light funds with such an outstanding issue. We will have to wait and see the outcome then we can know better what will happen going forward.

[snfenoc]

I thought this was interesting:

CalPERS has not followed through on pledge to build downtown housing, city says

BY RYAN LILLIS
rlillis@sacbee.com
My feed
OCTOBER 03, 2017 3:55 AM

For a decade, CalPERS and the city of Sacramento have had a signed understanding that the giant pension fund would build hundreds of housing units along downtown’s R Street corridor. All this time later, CalPERS has not lived up to its end of the bargain.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/new...176675991.html

[snfenoc]

First residential development in the Railyards:

EXCLUSIVE: Plans pending for six-story Railyards mixed-use project
By Ben van der Meer – Staff Writer, Sacramento Business Journal
4 hours ago

Plans will be submitted shortly for what would be the Sacramento Railyards’ first residential development: a six-story, mixed-use project...

https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...railyards.html

Here are the basics:

• 6 Stories

• 270 housing units

• 6,000-7,000 square feet of retail space

• Could be market rate, affordable or a combination

• Location would be northeast of the Shops buildings, south of Railyards Blvd. and between 6th and 7th Streets.

• Metro Crossing, a 200 unit proposal on 7th Street, between F & G Streets (closer to Downtown), is now off the table. Boooo!!!!

• Much of the focus, right now, is on putting together a proposal to lure Amazon. Yay??? Not sure they should be swinging for the fences on Amazon. I think, they should focus on actually finishing...well, starting...the Railyards' build out.

[Sac-O-Lantern]

Hello,

I was glad to find this forum discussion. I didn't know anyone was discussing this stuff . . . anywhere.

A question I have about a project i haven't found any news on recently:

What is the status of Sacramento Commons? (not Downtown Commons). Last I read it was sold to a Washington-state company.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by Sac-O-Lantern

Hello,

I was glad to find this forum discussion. I didn't know anyone was discussing this stuff . . . anywhere.

A question I have about a project i haven't found any news on recently:

What is the status of Sacramento Commons? (not Downtown Commons). Last I read it was sold to a Washington-state company.

Welcome Sac-O-Lantern! I have not heard anything lately. I imagine it’s one of those problematic properties given the uproar by the SacMod group and already having residents.

[yolonative]

Originally Posted by Sac-O-Lantern

Hello,

I was glad to find this forum discussion. I didn't know anyone was discussing this stuff . . . anywhere.

A question I have about a project i haven't found any news on recently:

What is the status of Sacramento Commons? (not Downtown Commons). Last I read it was sold to a Washington-state company.

Welcome to this corner of the internet. I haven't heard much either. Not that this means anything substantive, but Railyards just shared this on their facebook page and mentions Sacramento Commons:

https://railyards.com/blog/PostId/50...own-sacramento

Could just be feigned marketing ploy, but hopefully it reflects some reality that it's still moving forward.

[snfenoc]

It’s nice to learn that the NIMBY lawsuit against the Yamanee project was dismissed. Still, I’d be very pleasantly surprised if this one gets built.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by snfenoc

It’s nice to learn that the NIMBY lawsuit against the Yamanee project was dismissed. Still, I’d be very pleasantly surprised if this one gets built.

Always the optimist 😝. I don’t know what makes you think this won’t get built. There’s several mid-rise infill projects underconstruction now in Midtown and those are are selling seem to be doing well. Poor wburg tho 😏.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by ozone

Always the optimist 😝. I don’t know what makes you think this won’t get built. There’s several mid-rise infill projects underconstruction now in Midtown and those are are selling seem to be doing well. Poor wburg tho 😏.

It may get built, but given that both ground floor places were recently leased I'm not sure if bulldozing is going to happen anytime soon. 19th and J went from proposal to bulldozing very quick by comparison. Same thing with 15th and Q.

[snfenoc]

Originally Posted by ozone

Always the optimist ������. I don’t know what makes you think this won’t get built. There’s several mid-rise infill projects underconstruction now in Midtown and those are are selling seem to be doing well. Poor wburg tho ������.

See Majin for part of my answer to you. Timing is key to these large-scale developments. The market is already showing signs of weakness. Plus, as you’ve pointed out, there are several competing developments that are further along.

Let me add, that while I like the proposal and support it’s right to be built in midtown , it’s size is out of character for the area, and the housing units are anything but affordable. The developer even said that Yamanee only “pencils out” if it is high density and luxurious. Sounds to me that the developer is operating on a thin margin, and he is trying to turn a profit through high volume and high prices. It's gonna be a tough one to get built: Where are the investors? Who is the builder/contractor? Does he even have a concrete timetable? Are they ready to get going?

Just because we see bulldozers moving dirt around, that does not mean 19J and 1430Q will actually get built. I am certainly hopeful, but we've seen this before. At least 19J is affordable, and at least 1430 Q is by a venerable developer using a cheaper technique (wood frame). What does Yamanee have going for it?

[Majin]

I definitely disagree about 19th and J and 15th and Q, I'm nearly 100% certain those will get build. Almost never is there dirty flying and the project is cancelled. Usually it never even makes it to the demo stage if the project isnt going to be completed. The notable exception is 301CM, but besides that has there ever been a large project in the grid that actually stopped mid construction?

The ONLY indication that Yamanee is iffy is the fact that the developer leased the ground floor. If they were confident after the law suit got dismissed that demo was going to start soon I doubt the ground floor would of been leased.

And what weakness in the market are you talking about? Half of the condos in Doco have already been sold and the models aren't even open yet.

[ozone]

You guys crack me up. Trying to speculate about whether or not it will get built, if there is market for it, will it pencil out? As for it being out of character with the neighborhood. That’s such bs. All you have to do is look across the street at the brutalist senior apartment block. It’s not going to be a skyscraper plopped down in the middle of a bunch of charming Victorian houses. That is how it’s being portrayed which is totally disingenuous. I get that change is hard for some people but that’s too bad. If you want to live in a small town move there.

Majin I’m curious what's the business(s) that have signed a new lease on the property?

Saw a piece about this on the news tonight. William Burg was interviewed. Sounds like he’s good with new housing as long as it only 3-4 stories tall. I also heard the developer use the date 2020. Is that the planned date to start construction or completion?

[Sac-O-Lantern]

Originally Posted by ozone

Welcome Sac-O-Lantern! I have not heard anything lately. I imagine it’s one of those problematic properties given the uproar by the SacMod group and already having residents.

Thanks! I remember reading SacMod's criticisms. Preservation Sacramento currently threatens legal action against it on their website in the event the current owner wants to try for any additional discretionary approvals:

http://www.preservationsacramento.org/save-captowers

[innov8]

Originally Posted by Majin

Usually it never even makes it to the demo stage if the project isnt going to be completed. The notable exception is 301CM, but besides that has there ever been a large project in the grid that actually stopped mid construction?

1801 L Street across from the L Street Lofts stalled out in 2002 for nearly two
years with just the concrete podiums and rebar coming out of the ground.
It restarted again in mid-2004. I believe the size of the project was downsized
a floor or two so that the new lenders were comfortable with the
risk. If the stock market begins to pull back or the economy falters, all
these projects will be frozen and either be downsized or canceled… it’s
happen before in this city and 1801 L Street is a good example of that.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by innov8

1801 L Street across from the L Street Lofts stalled out in 2002 for nearly two
years with just the concrete podiums and rebar coming out of the ground.
It restarted again in mid-2004. I believe the size of the project was downsized
a floor or two so that the new lenders were comfortable with the
risk. If the stock market begins to pull back or the economy falters, all
these projects will be frozen and either be downsized or canceled… it’s
happen before in this city and 1801 L Street is a good example of that.

Yes but you are forgetting that back then a project like 1801 L was sort of ground-breaking and the market untested. That’s no longer the case. Sure it’s posible that we could see an economic contraction and projects suspended but I don’t know why that should still be the default outlook for Sacramento?

[urbanadvocate]

19J has the steel popping out--this one is going fast and should be clearly vertical sooner rather than later.

Any word on Marshall? Last I heard that project was finally slated to begin construction.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by urbanadvocate

19J has the steel popping out--this one is going fast and should be clearly vertical sooner rather than later.

Any word on Marshall? Last I heard that project was finally slated to begin construction.

That was fast. I just drove by yesterday. Must have missed it.
Walked past the Marshall yesterday too. Looks like everyone’s out of there now. I think everyone is anxious to move quickly on that project. I have a friend who was an investor in the Marshall in 00’s when they first tried to convert it a hotel or residences (I forget) and he said it was a nightmare because of a law that required developers to find the existing tenants new homes. As you can imagine that was no easy task and not exactly the type of thing investors/developers are interested in doing. Also the religious charity ‘Loaves and Fishes’ pretty much bullied the city into erecting obsticles at every turn. So it’s been a long time coming.

[snfenoc]

Not sure why I am getting flack. I never said 1430Q and 19J won't get built. In fact, I'm a about 90% certain that BOTH will get built without much issue or delay. I think that I'm being quite optimistic. My point is that there are no guarantees - there is a level of uncertainty with any project. Even at the site prep and foundation stages of development, it is possible for a project to be halted.

You asked for examples, but you won't let me include the most illustrative one: 301 CM. (I think that's an unfair argument technique, if you ask me.) Fact is, I cannot give you examples that meet your very specific parameters. However, on satellite, you can still see the foundation of a ballpark in the North Natomas, just to the north of ARCO Arena. Aura got to the test pile stage before it was halted. Tapestry Square had a couple-year delay, mid development, before it was completed. I'm sure a google search can show multiple examples of projects across the country being stopped after site prep or construction began. It is possible that 1430Q and/or 15J could hit a snag. Is it likely? Not really.

Keep in mind, all my statements are in context to Yamanee's chances of getting built: If there is some level of uncertainty to 1430Q and 19J, there is definitely uncertainty with Yamanee: Site prep has not begun. Heck, there are still tenants occupying the old building. According to the developer, Yamanee will only work if it is 130' taller than anything else nearby (except for one senior housing "Project" across the street that was built 40 years ago). It concerns me if a developer cannot compromise or has very specific requirements for a project to pencil out; because it tells me that the project is unlikely to work without extraordinary circumstances.

You asked for evidence of market weakness: Last week the SBJ reported that Sacramento area apartment rents are flattening. Also, another report shows that housing prices are down about 5%. These stats could mean absolutely nothing, we could be in a post-Labor Day lull, or it's possible that the housing market is beginning to cool. If demand for housing is falling, or supply is too high, that could certainly affect planned developments - especially expensive, multi-unit buildings.

You mentioned that half of the "Residences at Sawyer" have sold...OK...so what? How many units is that? Like 20-25? (I have to wonder...how many of those units went to certain people connected with the Kings?) I'm not that impressed; come back with some bigger numbers. Remember, those residences are a tiny part of a much larger, subsidized project that is almost complete. Yamanee is a lone development with 15 floors, 14,000 square feet of retail and 137 luxury units. Oh yeah, and it hasn't even begun construction yet.

To Ozone:
This is a forum about development. Speculation, argument, discussion, updates, pictures, and article posting about development is kinda what we do, here.

[ozone]

^^^
Oh I understanding the forum just fine. I just don't happened to agree with you regarding Yamanee. I'll make a friendly wager. If it doesn't start construction I'll buy you a beer and if it does you'll owe me one.

[Pistola916]

I would like to see Yamanee get built but I disagree with the idea that the project would only work in that particular location. Now I understand the developer doesn't own the land at other empty lots or sites West of 16th street. I think Yamanee could be built right next to the new Sutter Women's and Children's hospital, which is what around 150 feet, along the Cap City Freeway, where there are a few 4-6 story medical office facilities. I know it's moot since there isn't a plot of land to develop - unless RT sold their maintenance facility next to the hospital - would people be up and arms if Yamanee was develop Ed there?