PHILADELPHIA | The Arthaus @ 311 S. Broad | 542 FT | 47 FLOORS - Page 42

mcgrath618 · #**821** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 2:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Yes, but it's ambiguous at best. Quote from article- "He said he aims to begin work on one of the two projects in 2018."

Calling it now then, we get groundbreaking for Broad and Pine in March, along with an official starting date of June 1 for this tower.

ebuilder · #**822** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 2:30 PM**

the article says he hopes to start on one this year. I wonder what will determine which one starts.

iheartphilly · #**823** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 2:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebuilder

the article says he hopes to start on one this year. I wonder what will determine which one starts.

Probably NOT the one that requires the front loading of the 19MM dollar grant, aka SLS.

Unless Carl is willing to take a smaller ROI on the project or maybe breakeven on the investment.

allovertown · #**824** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 2:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebuilder

the article says he hopes to start on one this year. I wonder what will determine which one starts.

I mentioned before, the fact that the state seems to have set the precedent of throwing him a million a year for SLS, I imagine he's in no rush there. He's gotta know he's not getting 20 million, but why not hold off too find out how much the state will eventually give if he continues to delay? No incentive to start if there's the chance he may get another million next year.

Hopefully Broad and Pine is started this year. SLS who knows, maybe never at this rate.

McBane · #**825** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

I mentioned before, the fact that the state seems to have set the precedent of throwing him a million a year for SLS, I imagine he's in no rush there. He's gotta know he's not getting 20 million, but why not hold off too find out how much the state will eventually give if he continues to delay? No incentive to start if there's the chance he may get another million next year.

I have to disagree with this assessment. Construction costs seem to go up every year and negate the bulk of the $1-2m he's getting from the Commonwealth each year. Not to mention, further delays run the risk of experiencing changing market forces. What if there is a crash? Or what if the city rescinds the tax abatement? Lots of things could happen.

ebuilder · #**826** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 3:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

I have to disagree with this assessment. Construction costs seem to go up every year and negate the bulk of the $1-2m he's getting from the Commonwealth each year. Not to mention, further delays run the risk of experiencing changing market forces. What if there is a crash? Or what if the city rescinds the tax abatement? Lots of things could happen.

agreed. $1m is nothing on a project of this size. If he doesn't start this year it's for another reason. You can VE out a million bucks in a few days on a large project. I think it's all but a certainty that there will be changes to the tax abatement in the next fiscal year and those changes will likely be unfavorable to high end new construction. The question will be what grace period will be allowed for projects to qualify under the existing rules.

PHL10 · #**827** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 4:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Calling it now then, we get groundbreaking for Broad and Pine in March, along with an official starting date of June 1 for this tower.

Before Broad and Pine start, they would need to demo the garage, which is an architecturally tasteful building with active businesses on the corner and along Pine. We could see a scenario, where we have a gaping hole at Spruce and Pine and waiting for something to start, basically killing that entire stretch of Broad in the interim.

boxbot · #**828** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 5:52 PM**

Knight Hospitaller · #**829** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 6:15 PM**

^It'll be different this time!

jsbrook · #**830** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

Maybe. I think it's more likely now, though. The economics of sizable hotels in Philly just seem impossible without significant incentives/tax breaks or TIFs. Less hotel and more condos makes this more feasible (while not RACP funding, the W received a $33 million TIF and $42 million in additional state and federal grants for a total subsidy of $75 million). Elimination of the hotel portion for the Hyde make that MUCH more feasible. I think Dranoff is most likely to start the Hyde first and the comments were designed to extort more state funding or other aide for the hotel. But I don't think it'll work. At least not as to RACP. But maybe he'll be able to line up other types of aid.

GtownFriend · #**831** Posted **Jan 12, 2018, 11:20 PM**

There is this from the philly.com article:

Quote:

The Dranoff entity that owns the vacant 311 S. Broad St. construction site was awarded a zoning permit Wednesday for a project with 101 hotel rooms and 114 residential units, according the Philadelphia Department of Licenses and Inspections.

Don't know how much the new permit means, but it does make something possible

Mr Saturn64 · #**832** Posted **Jan 13, 2018, 2:31 AM**

Making the building at Broad and Pine all condos was a pretty good idea, and I would definitely expect that to happen for real. SLS, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. Dranoff seems confident in it. I don't know.

Philly-Drew · #**833** Posted **Jan 13, 2018, 12:39 PM**

I won’t have too much faith in this project (as currently advertised) until I see equipment arriving at the site. There have been a lot of start dates pass by.

I sure do hope it gets started sometime in 2018 to get rid of the embarrassment that is there now.

Gonzo the Great · #**834** Posted **Jan 13, 2018, 1:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

Classic .

Gonzo the Great · #**835** Posted **Feb 12, 2018, 8:35 PM**

https://tenyearsago.files.wordpress....0/wallace5.jpg

..... Move along folks , nothing to see here ......

Philly-Drew · #**836** Posted **Feb 15, 2018, 7:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

https://tenyearsago.files.wordpress....0/wallace5.jpg

..... Move along folks , nothing to see here ......

Then why bump the thread?

jsbrook · #**837** Posted **Apr 16, 2018, 8:32 PM**

Good news! http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...-20180416.html With Dranoff getting $445MM in June, maybe this and Pine Street will finally get off the ground!

Mr Saturn64 · #**838** Posted **Apr 16, 2018, 10:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Good news! http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...-20180416.html With Dranoff getting $445MM in June, maybe this and Pine Street will finally get off the ground!

Holy crap! This could actually happen now!

Speaking of Pine Street, wasn't that supposed to go up in March?

McBane · #**839** Posted **Apr 17, 2018, 1:02 AM**

This is a very interesting development. He now has enough money to finance both projects but yet developers don't self-finance. My theory is that the banks are reluctant to lend him enough money for these projects to move forward without more up-front money, which Dranoff has been trying to obtain from the Commonwealth for years. Acknowledging that that money isn't coming, Dranoff can now use this windfall.

But really, I have no idea how commercial lending works. Though I'm pretty sure developers don't self-finance.

So what gives?

jsbrook · #**840** Posted **Apr 17, 2018, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

This is a very interesting development. He now has enough money to finance both projects but yet developers don't self-finance. My theory is that the banks are reluctant to lend him enough money for these projects to move forward without more up-front money, which Dranoff has been trying to obtain from the Commonwealth for years. Acknowledging that that money isn't coming, Dranoff can now use this windfall.

But really, I have no idea how commercial lending works. Though I'm pretty sure developers don't self-finance.

So what gives?

Developers do self-finance, and are expected to have some skin in the game. They are just not financing the whole project. The equity partners/investors typically expect the developer to put in anywhere from 3-25% of costs, depending on size and value of project, the developer’s track record and numerous other factors.