Salt Lake MSA Development Thread

[asies1981]

Habit for Humanity broke ground today on a 20-unit eco-community in Kearns.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by asies1981

Habit for Humanity broke ground today on a 20-unit eco-community in Kearns.

Thanks Isaac -- I used to play baseball (badly) on that field. I'm interested to see how this ends up working or not working for the community.

[Gastroc]

West Jordan blames Ben McAdams for losing out on Facebook data center:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4352467-1...en-mcadams-for

I'm curious to know what Rolfe thinks he knows that McAdams doesn't and vice versa...

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by jedikermit

Thanks Isaac -- I used to play baseball (badly) on that field. I'm interested to see how this ends up working or not working for the community.

I am happy to see more energy efficient homes that are affordable. It is poetic in a way to see the fields become an eco-community that helps families get a home.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Gastroc

West Jordan blames Ben McAdams for losing out on Facebook data center:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4352467-1...en-mcadams-for

I'm curious to know what Rolfe thinks he knows that McAdams doesn't and vice versa...

I agree with Rolfe about misinformation being spread, and McAdams and Dabakis specifically were spreading a lot of misinformation that was confusing to people.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I agree with Rolfe about misinformation being spread, and McAdams and Dabakis specifically were spreading a lot of misinformation that was confusing to people.

Proximity to Rte 111, bounded by two future major arterials (New Bingham on the south, 9000 South on the north) and close proximity to the new Mountain View freeway?

Yeah, I'm glad we lost out on it. That will be SUPER VALUABLE corner in the near future. Can you imagine the retail base that corner will have? Instead, it would have been almost nothing (after incentives) so it could provide like 5 jobs. Bad deal, imo.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by Highrise_Mike

I agree, the parking and building should swap sides. If Sandy is really going for that urban/downtown feel, the building should definitely be up to the street. The problem is the developers are always fight hard for parking in front of buildings in suburban areas and they don't understand or care about the concept of street engagement. In this case I imagine Gardner put it next to the freeway because the future tenant wants the freeway visibility.

You should look at the renderings again. The building is next to the roadway, the parking structure is an L shape in between the new building and the Hale Center theater. So the structure is bound by the new building on the north, I15 to the west, and the new theater to the east with small surface lot filling out the rest of the irregular shaped parcel.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by millhouse

You should look at the renderings again. The building is next to the roadway, the parking structure is an L shape in between the new building and the Hale Center theater. So the structure is bound by the new building on the north, I15 to the west, and the new theater to the east with small surface lot filling out the rest of the irregular shaped parcel.

Yes there is a parking structure to the south of the building, but the rendering clearly shows a surface lot as well, which is between the building and 225 W/Monroe St. A surface lot does not provide for any sort of street engagement, so while Sandy wants to be the "Other Downtown" as does Draper and I'm sure Lehi/Thanksgiving Point thinks they are, without the basic elements of urban design they are simply suburban office parks. Yes the parking structure sandwiched between HCT, the building and I-15 is good, but the entire thing is negated by the surface lot.

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Yes there is a parking structure to the south of the building, but the rendering clearly shows a surface lot as well, which is between the building and 225 W/Monroe St. A surface lot does not provide for any sort of street engagement, so while Sandy wants to be the "Other Downtown" as does Draper and I'm sure Lehi/Thanksgiving Point thinks they are, without the basic elements of urban design they are simply suburban office parks. Yes the parking structure sandwiched between HCT, the building and I-15 is good, but the entire thing is negated by the surface lot.

Though Sandy actually has residential, office, business, arts, sports, and even their city buildings all in the same core area. Along with actual Trax lines. That's a bit different than what's happening in Lehi/Draper.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

Though Sandy actually has residential, office, business, arts, sports, and even their city buildings all in the same core area. Along with actual Trax lines. That's a bit different than what's happening in Lehi/Draper.

My point is that yes they have all those things, but nothing is very connected other than by car. Walkability is horrible and every form of transportation near City Hall is neglected if it doesn't have four wheels.

I like that they are attempting to be more urban, but they are missing it on many things, not all. Hale Center appears that it is going to be placed right up against the sidewalk, win; but the adjacent office building has traditional suburban parking proposed between the building and the street, fail; East Village is adjacent to the Trax station, win; but Trax and FrontRunner don't have any connectivity to "downtown" at all, fail; Several of the buildings on the south side of 100th S are sidewalk oriented, win, but the office building "Aetna" to the SW has an ever expanding parking lot around it, fail.

"Downtown" Sandy has potential, but if they don't guide it effectively it won't realize it's potential. Case in point being what several of us have mentioned, the parking lot between the building and the road. This new building is going to be around for a very long time and missing out on the chance to put it road side is a huge miss.

Instead of the previous "The Other downtown" maybe Sandy's theme should be "Two Steps Forward, One Step Back!" We're making progress, but we can't seem to kick the suburban development pattern mindset.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

My point is that yes they have all those things, but nothing is very connected other than by car. Walkability is horrible and every form of transportation near City Hall is neglected if it doesn't have four wheels.

I like that they are attempting to be more urban, but they are missing it on many things, not all. Hale Center appears that it is going to be placed right up against the sidewalk, win; but the adjacent office building has traditional suburban parking proposed between the building and the street, fail; East Village is adjacent to the Trax station, win; but Trax and FrontRunner don't have any connectivity to "downtown" at all, fail; Several of the buildings on the south side of 100th S are sidewalk oriented, win, but the office building "Aetna" to the SW has an ever expanding parking lot around it, fail.

"Downtown" Sandy has potential, but if they don't guide it effectively it won't realize it's potential. Case in point being what several of us have mentioned, the parking lot between the building and the road. This new building is going to be around for a very long time and missing out on the chance to put it road side is a huge miss.

Instead of the previous "The Other downtown" maybe Sandy's theme should be "Two Steps Forward, One Step Back!" We're making progress, but we can't seem to kick the suburban development pattern mindset.

I can see your point on this when comparing to a traditional down town, but I'd still give Sandy at least a B (especially for being a burb.) I'd say you're not being fair by saying there is "no connectivity between TRAX/Frnt Rnr at all". It's only 1 mile from the S. Jotdan Station to City Hall - a 15-20 min walk, or a 5 min bus ride. It's not even 3/4 of a mile from TRAX to City Hall, or 10 min walking. I used to work right behind City Hall and a good couple dozen people from my office would walk to either station. Sure, it's not the most vibrant walk, but there are sidewalks, crossings, lights the whole way. I always felt pretty safe walking it. I purposefully avoided the bus to get a nice walk in for the day. I would walk down that boulevard behind Target to get to Target or the Mall on my lunch. Once again, I always felt safe. Sure it was a boring view, but it was easy to do. You can't do this at a place like Jordan Landing or the District and feel safe doing it.

[delts145]

Good points, and I'm sure as time progresses Sandy's business center will become a much denser urban type core. I think they're off to a reasonably good beginning. I don't see anything that can't be tweaked as the valley matures in general, and Sandy specifically.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

My point is that yes they have all those things, but nothing is very connected other than by car. Walkability is horrible and every form of transportation near City Hall is neglected if it doesn't have four wheels.

I like that they are attempting to be more urban, but they are missing it on many things, not all. Hale Center appears that it is going to be placed right up against the sidewalk, win; but the adjacent office building has traditional suburban parking proposed between the building and the street, fail; East Village is adjacent to the Trax station, win; but Trax and FrontRunner don't have any connectivity to "downtown" at all, fail; Several of the buildings on the south side of 100th S are sidewalk oriented, win, but the office building "Aetna" to the SW has an ever expanding parking lot around it, fail.

"Downtown" Sandy has potential, but if they don't guide it effectively it won't realize it's potential. Case in point being what several of us have mentioned, the parking lot between the building and the road. This new building is going to be around for a very long time and missing out on the chance to put it road side is a huge miss.

Instead of the previous "The Other downtown" maybe Sandy's theme should be "Two Steps Forward, One Step Back!" We're making progress, but we can't seem to kick the suburban development pattern mindset.

Did they change something?
http://www.sltrib.com/csp/mediapool/...17&pid=2658717

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Did they change something?
http://www.sltrib.com/csp/mediapool/...17&pid=2658717

I'm not sure what your question is. You highlighted my Right up against the sidewalk comment and posted a link showing that it is being built right up against the sidewalk.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I'm not sure what your question is. You highlighted my Right up against the sidewalk comment and posted a link showing that it is being built right up against the sidewalk.

U crazy

How is that right up against the sidewalk?

I see

Parkstrip-sidewalk-suburban nature band aid-private plaza-Theatre

[Stenar]

I didn't know 'urban' meant you cannot have 5-10 feet of greenery in front of a building.

To me, suburban-type landscaping is set back 30-40 feet or more, and usually has at least 1 row of parking in front of the building. The new theatre is at least as close to the sidewalk, if not closer, than the Vivint Arena.

Apparently, the NY Public Library is suburban. The closest point of the building is a full 75 feet from the sidewalk, and the part with the greenery and trees is 95 feet from the sidewalk.

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

U crazy

How is that right up against the sidewalk?

I see

Parkstrip-sidewalk-suburban nature band aid-private plaza-Theatre

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I didn't know 'urban' meant you cannot have 5-10 feet of greenery in front of a building.

To me, suburban-type landscaping is set back 30-40 feet or more, and usually has at least 1 row of parking in front of the building. The new theatre is at least as close to the sidewalk, if not closer, than the Vivint Arena.

Apparently, the NY Public Library is suburban. The closest point of the building is a full 75 feet from the sidewalk, and the part with the greenery and trees is 95 feet from the sidewalk.

oh come on

They're not comparable. Scale of the building, patrons served, setting, etc. This is in a suburban office park(precisely the same sort of place it was before) surrounded by pointless lawn(both on thee property and on neighboring property) and surface parking for a tacky municipal complex. Virtually no one lives within a mile. There are no other amenities nearby. The theatre won't be serving hundreds of thousands of people. All of the lawn that they are putting in is a restaurant that will never be. Let's not pretend that this is going to activate the sidewalk or that it is in any way urban.

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

oh come on

They're not comparable. Scale of the building, patrons served, setting, etc. This is in a suburban office park(precisely the same sort of place it was before) surrounded by pointless lawn(both on thee property and on neighboring property) and surface parking for a tacky municipal complex. Virtually no one lives within a mile. There are no other amenities nearby. The theatre won't be serving hundreds of thousands of people. All of the lawn that they are putting in is a restaurant that will never be. Let's not pretend that this is going to activate the sidewalk or that it is in any way urban.

Well, aside from the obvious people living in the homes nearby on the picture, there's the 4-story condo buildings (Albion Village just to the north of that picture) and the Park at City Center (http://utahprojects.info/Project/Det...at-City-Center) is literally being built directly behind the town hall. The nearby East Village apartments under construction is also pretty vast - http://utahprojects.info/Project/Det...age-Apartments . The new Hale Theatre is also directly west of the town hall on that picture. It's not NYC (or SLC), but it's better effort I've seen than any other suburb in Utah.

[Future Mayor]

Stenar and TonyAnderson, both understood the point I was making and I agree, it's not NYC or even SLC but not having a parking lot between the road and the building is a big step, IMO. So if they would continue that with the office building to the north, it would be a small step in the right direction, but alas what started this conversation, they are not doing that and once again there will be parking lot between the street and the building.

[airportvids]

ok so while we are on the subject of Sandy, for anybody on here in the know, what is the latest with the "the prestige" development. I came across a rendering the other day showing a 12-13 story building. But there was no info. Does anybody know anything about it?