Provo MSA Development Thread

[i-215]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

Does anyone pine for the suburbs. Aren't we just forced to the burbs when we buy a house because most people don't turn out to be wealthy enough to afford the city?

Yep. Urban planners talk about the "hidden subsidy of the automobile," yet it is that very subsidy that allows me to be able to afford to LIVE, period.

The proof is in the pudding:

• I can't afford to live in central SLC as a single guy, even though it would be totally cool to do so.
• Eventually adding a wife and a couple of kids to the mix will really make urban living unaffordable.

My only hope is that some seniors decide to "trade down" to smaller condos and free up their old houses for me to buy and a reasonable price (but so far, seniors like my parents seem perfectly content staying put). Without old houses freeing up, it's out toward Payson for me with a loooooooooong commute. I will not raise kids in an unaffordable urban condo. I'd rather sacrifice my health and sanity driving hundreds of miles a week so my kids get a shot at a good childhood. I'm far from alone.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by i-215

Yep. Urban planners talk about the "hidden subsidy of the automobile," yet it is that very subsidy that allows me to be able to afford to LIVE, period.

The proof is in the pudding:

• I can't afford to live in central SLC as a single guy, even though it would be totally cool to do so.
• Eventually adding a wife and a couple of kids to the mix will really make urban living unaffordable.

My only hope is that some seniors decide to "trade down" to smaller condos and free up their old houses for me to buy and a reasonable price (but so far, seniors like my parents seem perfectly content staying put). Without old houses freeing up, it's out toward Payson for me with a loooooooooong commute. I will not raise kids in an unaffordable urban condo. I'd rather sacrifice my health and sanity driving hundreds of miles a week so my kids get a shot at a good childhood. I'm far from alone.

I agree. I work downtown and would love to live Downtown or close to it, but purchased my home in west valley. My mortgage for a 97' 4 bed 2 bth is less than a new one bedroom apartment. I and have roommates wich help mitigate the cost. No way I could afford a one bedroom and live comfortably on my own.

[Future Mayor]

How much to you spend on a car payment and car related expenses, insurance, maintenance etc?

[Makid]

I am currently looking to move into downtown. My problem is that the size to cost ratio is completely crazy.

I am married but we only have my income due to medical reasons. We need at least 1,100 Sq Ft if not closer to 1,300.

The average cost of a condo in this range (1100 - 1300 sq ft) is more than a 2,200 sq ft house just outside of downtown.

This is what really needs to change for more people to move to downtown. The average price needs to come down or the average size needs to go up. Until there is a shift, it will be harder to entice more people to move downtown.

Sure there are intangibles in the costs, such as closeness to and walking to nearly everything needed including transit and living mostly car free. But IMO, these don't cover the cost aspect.

I don't really get paying $400,000 for a condo downtown when I can pay $200,000 for a condo/house/townhouse 1/2 mile to 1 mile outside of downtown on a higher frequency transit line. I am willing to pay a bit more for the convenience of being able to walk to work, shopping, groceries and the like but this increase shouldn't be so drastic.

Buying 2 Hive passes and waiting up to 15 minutes for the next bus/train and riding for 5 minutes to walk downtown for the above stated items means that I may be out an additional 10 minutes due to walking/transit times and the Hive pass cost but still have the same benefits as living downtown. These 10 minutes shouldn't be worth the doubling of costs.

Now, with the above said, I personally do want to live downtown. I just need to find the right deal (price to size).

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Makid

I am currently looking to move into downtown. My problem is that the size to cost ratio is completely crazy.

I am married but we only have my income due to medical reasons. We need at least 1,100 Sq Ft if not closer to 1,300.

The average cost of a condo in this range (1100 - 1300 sq ft) is more than a 2,200 sq ft house just outside of downtown.

This is what really needs to change for more people to move to downtown. The average price needs to come down or the average size needs to go up. Until there is a shift, it will be harder to entice more people to move downtown.

Sure there are intangibles in the costs, such as closeness to and walking to nearly everything needed including transit and living mostly car free. But IMO, these don't cover the cost aspect.

I don't really get paying $400,000 for a condo downtown when I can pay $200,000 for a condo/house/townhouse 1/2 mile to 1 mile outside of downtown on a higher frequency transit line. I am willing to pay a bit more for the convenience of being able to walk to work, shopping, groceries and the like but this increase shouldn't be so drastic.

Buying 2 Hive passes and waiting up to 15 minutes for the next bus/train and riding for 5 minutes to walk downtown for the above stated items means that I may be out an additional 10 minutes due to walking/transit times and the Hive pass cost but still have the same benefits as living downtown. These 10 minutes shouldn't be worth the doubling of costs.

Now, with the above said, I personally do want to live downtown. I just need to find the right deal (price to size).

I just happen to know a great Real Estate Agent, that lives downtown and would love to assist you in your search.

One additional benefit is you can reduce your car insurance based on it not being used on a daily basis.

[javiniscool]

So I know it may seem like Lehi seems to have lots of development popping up that we forget to notice what's in our own backyard. I saw all of these projects in the works and/or recently completed for Orem City and it is a lot. Kudos Orem. All of this info came from http://econdev.orem.org/orem/about-o...rent-projects/

1. 1600 North Office Building - 1385 W. 1600 N.
2. 800 North Office Buildings - 964 E. 800 N.
3. Exceleration Tumbling Gym - 1608 S. Sandhill Rd.
4. Garff Honda & VW - 195 E. University Parkway - looks like an facade upgrade
5. Jive Communications - 1187 N. 1200 W. - 9 stories!
6. K Dub Office - 1002 N. 1200 W.
7. NES Services - 266 S.Mountain Way Drive
8. Orem Business Park - 1471 W. 1250 S.
9. Sun Canyon Villas - 470 S. State St.
10. Telos School - 658 S. Geneva Rd.
11. The Stop Convenience Store - 1152 W. Center St.
12. Trafagla Office Building - 168 S. 1200 W. - Do you think they will put a mini-golf course on the roof for work parties? hahaha
13. UPS Facility Expansion - 573 N. 1500 W.
14. Union Fort Warehouse - 1480 W. 800 N.
15. University Place - 575 W. University Parkway - This is a proposed building
16 - WW Clyde Headquarters - 869 N. 1500 W.

[Orlando]

That is why downtown SLC struggles to see much of any development.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Orlando

That is why downtown SLC struggles to see much of any development.

On the flip side, do we really want people living in Orem/Provo and commuting into downtown Salt Lake?

An upside of suburban office parks is that it helps fix the jobs/population imbalance.

[delts145]

It's been a very long time since we've had any picture updates of everything going on at the former University Mall area. That is a huge project, and I imagine that a lot has happened in the way of construction this past year.

[JMK]

Anyone know who's the architect for university place?
Nexus? I know they were involved with other parts of the improvements

http://www.archnexus.com/projects/university-place/

[delts145]

University Place

A few online shots of one of the new office buildings reaching completion. Interesting for those of us who aren't in the area these days.


http://www.utahbusiness.com


http://www.utahbusiness.com


http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn...eraldextra.com


http://econdev.orem.org


http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn...eraldextra.com

This was a part of the project that those of us not in the area and familiar with the specifics will find interesting.
The new road connecting 800 E. and State St. is a much needed improvement. I use to hate having to take that former back way.
Here are also some of the details in an article from July's Herald http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...9c2a1b23f.html

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn...eraldextra.com

.

[UrbanDesign]

Originally Posted by JMK

Anyone know who's the architect for university place?
Nexus? I know they were involved with other parts of the improvements

http://www.archnexus.com/projects/university-place/

Nexus did the building on the corner of State and Parkway that is almost complete and Woodbury is doing the design in-house for that 9ish story building a rendering was shown on the last page.

[arkhitektor]

It's a great building that looks totally out of place in the parking lot of a mall next to a Texas Roadhouse...

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Orlando

That is why downtown SLC struggles to see much of any development.

Though downtown Seattle seems to be fine in spite of Bellevue. Also, those Orem projects are mostly warehouses and car dealerships.

Some developers are more interested in building in Provo/Orem than SLC, not many, but some. More worrisome is the office parks like Thanksgiving Point and Draper, but they'll fill out eventually.

[JMK]

Thanks UrbandDesign

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

Though downtown Seattle seems to be fine in spite of Bellevue. Also, those Orem projects are mostly warehouses and car dealerships.

Some developers are more interested in building in Provo/Orem than SLC, not many, but some. More worrisome is the office parks like Thanksgiving Point and Draper, but they'll fill out eventually.

I think the difference is that there is more office space being built in Utah Valley and Draper, etc. than there is downtown SLC. Downtown Seattle has twice as much or more buildings going up than Bellevue, though Bellevue is building a lot also.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

It's a great building that looks totally out of place in the parking lot of a mall next to a Texas Roadhouse...

Agree...And something tells me that the Jared's and Texas Roadhouse's days are numbered. It looks pretty likely that for now they're only placeholders.



I really like this little cluster of density over on the other side of the Mall. I can really see something like this happening in the near future with Fashion Place, probably it's next redevelopment go around. Surprised it already hasn't happened, with as prime a location as it is.

[jtrent77]

I hesitate posting this because I know people will start criticizing it all over again....but here goes nothing:

Pleasant Grove City Council approves Evermore Gardens’ plans for immersive experience
Evermore Gardens, which was originally planned as a larger park named Evermore Park, will be a 15-acre immersive garden park. Bretschneider describes Evermore Gardens as “Gardner Village on steroids” and having the feel of a “European Hamlet.”

[airportvids]

Originally Posted by jtrent77

I hesitate posting this because I know people will start criticizing it all over again....but here goes nothing:

Pleasant Grove City Council approves Evermore Gardens’ plans for immersive experience
Evermore Gardens, which was originally planned as a larger park named Evermore Park, will be a 15-acre immersive garden park. Bretschneider describes Evermore Gardens as “Gardner Village on steroids” and having the feel of a “European Hamlet.”

And then next month Ken will have a new plan. Just pick one and break ground already.

[Future Mayor]

While I have criticized him in the past, I do like that he's a dreamer and has shoots big. Sure none of it has worked out yet, but I do hope that he is able to get something going there. I think it's a good idea that he's starting small and owns enough acreage there that maybe it could expand into something larger if there seems to be a demand. I do like that they will provide a shuttle from Front Runner. Along those same lines, and I know I've posed the questions before, but does Lagoon have a free Front Runner shuttle?

I shouldn't be to hard on a dreamer as I'm one too.