Atlanta: the unofficial capital of black America

[mrnyc]

wait wait wait. so making 80k in atlanta is like 180k in manhattan? rilly? aaaww *passes out*

[Tuckerman]

This discussion is quite interesting, if not a bit amusing. To begin with the topic “the unofficial capital of black America” is at best a hypothetical statement and at worst, pure speculation. Nonetheless, some aspects are not in doubt: the percentage of African-americans living in the ATL metro is very high in comparison to any other metros of over 5m and there is little doubt that among such metros the housing and living costs in the ATL metro are very low in comparison. In addition, there is a well documented migration of black families and individuals to the ATL area. Finally there is a very large contiguous middle class living area with a high concentration of black households. These are some of more factual components of the argument on this topic.

There are other points of discussion that may be relevant and they are more subjective. 1. The ATL area has a strong basis in colleges and universities with a history of black empowerment, not just the prestigious Morehouse and Spellman colleges, but also an emerging Georgia State University with a strong urban focus. 2. A history of strong and leading black mayors such as Andrew Young, Maynard Jackson, Shirley Franklin and the current Kasim Reed. 3. A laudable civil rights history that is recognized globally- MLK, Abernathy, John Lewis, and many others. 4. A history of business and organizational support for civil rights - “city to busy to hate” etc. 5. A notable development of black entertainment industries e.g. hip-hop, Tyler Perry, etc. In short, these more subjective items foster a sense of participation and ownership of the city and the events that occur in it. That message gets transmitted on the grape vine to other places.

In context, subjective interpretations of cities and their attractiveness are hardly new. Once Paris was the place for artists, now it may be Berlin. Some cities have reputations for welcoming entrepreneurs; others as great places to retire. The list goes on.I believe that ATL now has a reputation that it is attractive for black Americans; deserved or not, these subjective reputations have a life of their own.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Exactly. Again, if NYC and LA were soooo great, why are they leaving those cities?

Because of cost of living issues and lifestyle preferences. And, in the case of NYC, because the black community is no longer really African American.

High outmigration isn't a proxy for lack of desirability. In the Northeast Corridor and Coastal California, it's basically because some people can't hack it, or, to be more charitable, there's a mismatch between skill sets and market conditions.

A working class black person who wants a cheap suburban home, and doesn't particularly care about having access to good jobs, culture, or urbanity, could hardly pick a worse place to live than NYC or LA or SF.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Edit: CNN Money's cost of living calculator says 80k in Atlanta is 106k in Nassau Co., 138k in Brooklyn and 180k in Manhattan. It's not even close where the money goes further.

Cost of living calculators have to be the dumbest things on the internet. People don't live the same in all metros, so comparing relative costs by a single standard is an automatic fail.

Are people paying more to live in Tokyo than in Atlanta? Of course not. Median incomes are similar, and the Japanese have a much higher savings rate. Obviously they can't be consuming more, they have to be living differently.

The fact that an exactly equivalent lifestyle would cost much more in Tokyo is irrelevant, because that isn't how people live. That's why my brother in exurban Michigan has slightly higher monthly expenses than I have in an affluent neighborhood in NYC. I don't have a 3,000 square foot house, three cars, a snowmobile, and two acres of land. Why would I be compared by this standard? I can't snowmobile through Manhattan.

[mhays]

Tuckerman makes a great point about intangibles and reputation playing a big role in this sort of thing. If a lot of people think a place is the capital of something and a decent case can be made, even if people can argue the details it's at least sort of true.

Also Crawford is right about cost of living. The parallels that go into that equation ignore how life is lived in Manhattan. You don't need the big dining room or spare bed because you use restaurants and hotels for those things, for example.

[Tuckerman]

I also agree with Crawford on the cost of living issue. There is a lot of subjectivity in how people live in various context. For example, at one time, in large Chinese cities,living quarters with kitchens were not common, thus a whole street culture of food and eating outside the home was common. I have always believed that an active street culture has a lot to do with how much and what space and amenities you have in your own living quarters. If you have a quarter acre of garden behind you suburban house, you don't have the same need for a large urban park. It is much about the context of the urban area in which you live.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

^^^he's a smart dude, degrees in mathematics and computer science but i wouldn't call him a friend of the middle or working class. he's sat on the board of directors for little outfits like nabisco, whirpool and agco. he's been an analyst for coke and burger king too and did well at both, so he does know marketing. i wouldn't call him a grass roots kind of guy though....

Of course he's not a friend of the working class. My point was more like, it would have been interesting to see him go against Obama.

Cain would've still had all the traditional Republican voters behind him, but at least with him for the GOP you wouldn't have the black communities' votes massively going to Obama by default.

[pdxtex]

^^^oh i see. yeah i think the majority of black voters still would have swayed towards obama. i think voters in general are more passionate about younger candidates, at least well spoken ones. so are black atlantans also urbanists? i just get the impression black folks move to atlanta for its leafy suburbs. how do they feel about density? seems like cramped urban life up north is what they are fleeing in the first place.

[sofresh808]

Black Americans tend to vote very democratic, Al Gore and John Kerry got 90% and 88% of their vote. Obama got 96% in 2008 and 93% in 2012. I doubt Herman Cain alone would change this trend.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

so are black atlantans also urbanists? i just get the impression black folks move to atlanta for its leafy suburbs. how do they feel about density? seems like cramped urban life up north is what they are fleeing in the first place.

Some are, but just like most (non-millennial) transplants to Atlanta they are looking for value, space, and a yard. Suburban townhomes are becoming increasingly popular here in certain areas, but most do settle into leafy subdivisions/neighborhoods in the burbs.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

detroit has over 30,000 black owned businesses. there are plenty of entrepreneurs there but the lady who owns the wig shop or the dude running the bait shop or oil change place doesn't sound as sexy as the guy in atlanta with the tech start up or recording studio. detroit still has the largest black population (percent wise) of city in america, its just broke

Thanks for the information. I was just winging it. I know there are a lot of hair shops. I know of one grocer on Westside, a couple gas stations and a cafe or two. I would like to see a district, but i guess that is a long way off.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by toddguy

Is Columbus part of the rust belt? It is surprising to me that Columbus comes in at # 22, far ahead of the next closest midwest city at #30. Why do you think that is?

I think that even being the 15th largest city(city limits) and with two million in the metro, Columbus is just, well...invisible to most people. I guess more so on here.

I dont consider Columbus to be in the rust belt. It never had the type of image like Cleveland, Detroit, Erie..etc. But it is not good for blacks there at all.

[AccraGhana]

The Great Lakes region, part of the amorphous “Midwest”, went through an economic depression, especially Michigan. Michigan lost over 800,000 jobs between 2000 and 2010 and the state has only recovered about half those jobs. Thus, people of all races fled the area, generally heading south. Today, the economies of the region are much improved and due to the decline, housing is super cheap, cheaper than many places in the south.

I see the previous decade as an anomaly of sorts. True, it expedited an existing trend but I think factors have changed considerably in the Midwest, while the economy has weekend in places like Georgia relative to the previous decade. With things getting better in the North, there will be less of a PUSH factor driving blacks south and with opportunity not as abundant as in the past, the PULL factor of the south will diminish.

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by Kenneth

I dont consider Columbus to be in the rust belt. It never had the type of image like Cleveland, Detroit, Erie..etc. But it is not good for blacks there at all.

Uh...excuse me? I'm black and I'm good here (as are the other black folks here). Apparently you don't know much about Columbus if you think a city that actively promotes black business, a wonderful black mayor, a growing African-American and African population, and increasing African/AA opportunities is "bad for blacks." Hell, even coonery-driven BET gave us props:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...-76073752.html

So yeah, it ain't all Celie up here.

[mousquet]

Bah, of course we don't even count Blacks, Whites, Arabs, Asians or whatever over here. Why should we after all ? Blacks are already too many of us to be counted.

As some on here may know, so called racial censuses are forbidden by the French constitution, for regarded basically racist and threatening the cohesion of our society. The best is surely to ignore that kind of statistics indeed.

Besides, I'm not sure what they still often call races in English would make any sense to merciless science. Truth is the overall human genome is pretty damn uniform, and actually amazingly close to those of some monkey species for real. I find it fantastic that God has such a terrific sense of humor. Why wouldn't He/She make man from monkeys? What He/She does is just fine, and He/She doesn't care if it hurts your racial pride.

So we don't use that word of race anymore in gentle contemporary French. Only ignorant people still do when they feel the need to be rude. Of course there's still racism over here as anywhere though, but we've been trying hard to recover from that sort of sins. There are races to dogs for example. Try to mix a ludicrous poodle with a stinky German Shepherd, it most likely won't work. But humans as cats just won't work the same.

[Jasonhouse]

^Some of us have wondered about that here in America for years... If we want to stop making race an issue, shouldn't we first stop flagging it for attention every chance we get?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

^Some of us have wondered about that here in America for years... If we want to stop making race an issue, shouldn't we first stop flagging it for attention every chance we get?

but there is profit to be had in stoking the flames of racial paranoia.

PROFIT!

TO BE HAD!

[mousquet]

I believe it only takes innocence, science and above all faith to be free and infinitely creative. Nothing less, however.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

PROFIT!

Yes. Profit is a basic fault. But it will take centuries to get over it. So for now, we've got to smartly use it. Just use it. Do not be scared to be a so called devil when necessary. It will help somehow, if you're evil enough to use vice for the better.

You've just got to stay pure in your deepest things.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

Uh...excuse me? I'm black and I'm good here (as are the other black folks here). Apparently you don't know much about Columbus if you think a city that actively promotes black business, a wonderful black mayor, a growing African-American and African population, and increasing African/AA opportunities is "bad for blacks." Hell, even coonery-driven BET gave us props:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...-76073752.html

So yeah, it ain't all Celie up here.

lol!

[AccraGhana]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Bah, of course we don't even count Blacks, Whites, Arabs, Asians or whatever over here. Why should we after all ? Blacks are already too many of us to be counted.

As some on here may know, so called racial censuses are forbidden by the French constitution, for regarded basically racist and threatening the cohesion of our society. The best is surely to ignore that kind of statistics indeed.

Besides, I'm not sure what they still often call races in English would make any sense to merciless science. Truth is the overall human genome is pretty damn uniform, and actually amazingly close to those of some monkey species for real. I find it fantastic that God has such a terrific sense of humor. Why wouldn't He/She make man from monkeys? What He/She does is just fine, and He/She doesn't care if it hurts your racial pride.

So we don't use that word of race anymore in gentle contemporary French. Only ignorant people still do when they feel the need to be rude. Of course there's still racism over here as anywhere though, but we've been trying hard to recover from that sort of sins. There are races to dogs for example. Try to mix a ludicrous poodle with a stinky German Shepherd, it most likely won't work. But humans as cats just won't work the same.

Interesting. I did not know that. I think its a double edged sword, like most things. It can either help diminish the focus of race or hide terrible racial inequalities. For example, in America, the black poverty rate is 3 times that of whites and the rate of unemployment is twice as high. Given the nations history with race and racism.....it's a vital sign that lets the country know how it's improving or how much more work there needs to be done....if healing that history is of value to the nation. Otherwise, without keeping statistics you could never really know how the nation is improving in that respect....other than optics.