The Brooklyn Factor

[suburbanite]

I remember having the same discussion on the Canadian Skyline thread when someone posted this photo.


from: https://www.instagram.com/p/BukJJp3g6zo/

I always thought the uniformity in height and flat roof style gives it more of a Brooklyn or Philly vibe. I feel like Chicago is a bit more haphazard in that you can have a 2 story SFH with a sloped roof next to 4 story multi-unit with a flat roof. You can definitely find individual buildings or parts of streets that look very similar though.

[JManc]

On the street level, Montreal has a pretty unique vernacular with the raised entryways and often with metal staircases. Many of them curved.

[edale]

Originally Posted by JManc

On the street level, Montreal has a pretty unique vernacular with the raised entryways and often with metal staircases. Many of them curved.

Yes, the curved metal stairs on rowhouses is something I associate with Montreal.

[craigs]

Beyond the particulars of the vernacular, though, there is the really noticeable difference in scale. For such a big and dense city, Chicago has really wide roads, the buildings don't generally touch, there are setbacks between the roadway and the sidewalk in much of the city. The feeling of spaciousness can be too much, sometimes, if there isn't enough street activity. Montreal is tighter, more closed in, with more vibrancy inch for inch--in some ways it feels much more like a big collection of outdoor 'rooms.'

[jd3189]

Is Montreal more compact than Toronto? I haven't been to Toronto yet but on my last visit to Montreal I was very impressed with the density and cozy compactness in some of the central neighborhoods. Certain areas are hilly too, which gives off some similarities to SF or LA.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Is Montreal more compact than Toronto? I haven't been to Toronto yet but on my last visit to Montreal I was very impressed with the density and cozy compactness in some of the central neighborhoods. Certain areas are hilly too, which gives off some similarities to SF or LA.

The Montreal pre-war build form is dominated by row of attached buildings, which makes it very compact and immersive. And it goes on and on like that. Also, the streets are often narrow, which help. No other Canadian city are like that to that extend.


Source: https://mapio.net/pic/p-85065495/


Source: https://urbabillard.wordpress.com/20...manteau-blanc/


Source: https://urbabillard.wordpress.com/20...manteau-blanc/


Source: https://urbabillard.wordpress.com/20...manteau-blanc/

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Yeah, I can see that. That's what I hear. The Canadian cities have pretty much zero City Beautiful-era gigantism, for better and worse.

Still, though...

https://goo.gl/maps/SDfeoGyk3e5SvG1m9 (Chi)
https://goo.gl/maps/M4EAyfGZhedTesGq9 (Mtl)

There are some residential areas that line up pretty well. There is also that greystone typology too.

Some of these Chicago styles are nearly identical to the Montreal triplex of an old family friend that I'm currently pondering whether or not to buy (I'm very familiar with the building, it's well built and gorgeous inside, the only problem is the cap rate is quite low).

(It's the building in the center of the view below.)

Buildings in Chicago on N Fremont have one more story, but what mostly strikes me is that there are gaps between them. Unlike what we're used to in Montreal.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4864...7i16384!8i8192

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Well, like I said, I've never been to Chicago. Every time I see a photo thread here, I'm like "those are Montreal houses", but it just doesn't seem to be so in real life.

For a closer Montreal match, I would have chosen this one to the Chicago one;

https://goo.gl/maps/YbYRHuesnYkMiNrS7

[JManc]

Originally Posted by craigs

Beyond the particulars of the vernacular, though, there is the really noticeable difference in scale. For such a big and dense city, Chicago has really wide roads, the buildings don't generally touch, there are setbacks between the roadway and the sidewalk in much of the city. The feeling of spaciousness can be too much, sometimes, if there isn't enough street activity. Montreal is tighter, more closed in, with more vibrancy inch for inch--in some ways it feels much more like a big collection of outdoor 'rooms.'

Montreal felt more like if Philly and Chicago had a baby and then gave it poutine.

[mrnyc]

manhattan has some old uniform housing swaths too.

[dc_denizen]

Northeast Philly has some similarities

Northeast Philadelphia by Samuel A. Love, on Flickr

or south Philly

IMG_0580 by Robert, on Flickr

[jd3189]

I think we're all aware of the prewar density of NYC and Philly enough in this forum. It's a well established fact that needs not to be stressed

But seeing Montreal's density, I would say that it is truly Canada's urban masterpiece. More comparable to New York, Philly, and San Francisco than to Chicago in terms of dense cohesiveness.

The best way to describe what I mean is this: ultra dense cities look almost endless in building stock. There are barely any gaps; the cityscape envelopes one into it with pedestrian and structural intensity without end. Essentially cities like Paris, Naples, Cairo, Tokyo, etc.

[dc_denizen]

I think we don’t have enough aerials of low rise Chicago to really say.

[kool maudit]

When I last lived in Montreal, I was in the Outremont/Mile-End area, whose small apartment buildings and townhouses seem a little more Chicago-like than the usual staircase triplexes.

https://goo.gl/maps/MsKFpNHdxvRymcuZ7

https://goo.gl/maps/X1595Uk32QUkEX4m9

Avenue du parc, for instance, still looks quite a bit like Lincoln to my eyes.

https://goo.gl/maps/paymXnzh6QGEnm5T9 (Mtl)

https://goo.gl/maps/1mB8mxfvpo7x3kNN9 (Chi)

In terms of age and building style, there are a lot of similarities, but I'll have to visit Chicago to see the factor that blows it apart.

[kool maudit]

And yes, Montreal is Canada's urban masterpiece in terms of residential building stock, and the margin is similar to Toronto's lead in terms of skyscrapers and downtown grandeur.

Just as Montreal cannot offer this:

https://goo.gl/maps/hRUicuN7jbQw4Dd88

Toronto can't offer this:

https://goo.gl/maps/oCaGLX2tqPBAXCW4A

[Crawford]

South Philly is the closest U.S. analogue to non-core Montreal, though, yeah, it isn't a perfect match.

At street level, it's pretty close.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Crawford

South Philly is the closest U.S. analogue to non-core Montreal, though, yeah, it isn't a perfect match.

At street level, it's pretty close.

the aerials do look like philly.

photos dont really do a good job of expressing the fact that everything feels a certain way in a 360 radius. like that people have to step into the street to get around other people, or whatever. or in chicagos case that there is a massive blown out boulevard beyond the streetwall. this all influences your perception on the ground.

[niwell]

I've yet to make it to Philly (it was on the short list this year, but you know...) so I'd be interested to see what it feels like on the ground. From streetview / photo threads it seems quite compact to the point of cramped, even if the residential rowhouses aren't particularly tall. And pictures tend to make things appear more spread out if anything. The parking situation on many residential streets seems wild to me.

Montreal has the streetwall, but it still feels like there's a lot of space in most areas (just not nearly as much as Chicago). The post-war plex neighbourhoods can be a bit stifling, but that's largely a factor of unimaginative architecture plus lack of greenery compared to the older ones.

[kool maudit]

Philly seems like it has much smaller streets than Montreal, which is natural, as most of it is a good bit older.

[kool maudit]

The closest thing to South Philly (https://goo.gl/maps/djsxocBipniWx3vo7) would be St-Henri, but it's still generally wider, and a much smaller area.

Beaudoin Street is close:

https://goo.gl/maps/1Fh3LsEnadLJswmd7